Identifying some patches from NESA photos

[PHall]

Oh my. The blue beret is not allowed for wear on military bases, and that's where she was.... Being that USAF Security Forces wear the beret.

If the Base Commander allows CAP to wear the beret, then it's legal.

[RVT]

Agree on the "nose picking" comment.

I could have said "this is an example of an improperly rendered salute where his hand is aligned with his nose instead of his eyebrow" I just abbreviated it.  Didn't really expect that sort of reaction.

[lordmonar]

PHall,

It is not up to the base commander.

To the rest.....I think we need to lock this.

There is a reason why we stopped doing "bad uniform photos" threads.....we can trash them all day long, and the problem will not get fixed.

When we encounter bad uniforms in person with people under our command or within our influicne (i.e. peer to peer) we should take a stand and make corrections.

But on the web.....on CT....the violators who may or may not be wrong are not here to receive the feed back, the PAO who posted the photos is not here to receive the feed back.

So.....let's just lock this thread an move on.

[Larry Mangum]

Agreed

[Bluelakes 13]

Major Harris,

I disagree about locking this thread.  I think threads that point out uniform or C&C infrasctions are very useful.  As a PAO, I challenge myself to identify the infraction, if not blatant.  Many even post the regs to substantiate their remarks.  Again, very useful.

But locking a thread because of the use of colorful adjectives and adverbs is a disservise, I believe.  If we keep it civil, this can be a learning tool for all, and content for our presentations.

[spacecommand]

The boonie hat is unauthorized for the BDU's correct?  I know it is (blue version) for the BBDU thats it.

I think that's the second time I've seen it this month on a BDU.

I do agree that unnecessary comments should not be made, however comments pointing out exactly what the infractions are on published photographs, I don't mind.  I think it actually helps to clearly demonstrate what's wrong (without the snarly remarks), and if you see something over and over again being done incorrectly, then it needs to be addressed and clarified. 

[Eclipse]

The boonie hat is unauthorized for the BDU's correct?  I know it is (blue version) for the BBDU thats it.

Correct.

[Bluelakes 13]

And one of the PAO's I look up to just published a region newsletter with photos of SM's wearing the boonie hat in BDU's.  And in the field without a safety vest.

ARGGHHHH!

[lordmonar]

Major Harris,

I disagree about locking this thread.  I think threads that point out uniform or C&C infrasctions are very useful.  As a PAO, I challenge myself to identify the infraction, if not blatant.  Many even post the regs to substantiate their remarks.  Again, very useful.

But locking a thread because of the use of colorful adjectives and adverbs is a disservise, I believe.  If we keep it civil, this can be a learning tool for all, and content for our presentations.

If it was simply done in the spirit of "This is how to post photos and these are some common errors".  I would agree with you.

But all too often (as we see here) it turns into name calling or poor joke on the people in the photos.
One one level it is not their fault that they are out of regulations.  Someone told them to wear their uniforms that way, or allowed them to continue to wear it that way. 

Yes...yes....RTFM!  But let's face it....not everyone has the time or inclination to do so.  And if someone does what they think is right (or actively/purposely violates the reg) and no one corrects them then they will continue to do so.

I look in the regs today and just learned that 90% of CAP is out of 39-1 in respect to the ball cap.
In BDU only the camo ball cap is authorised.....and yet here we are years and years into CAP and we never see a camo ball call....but we see 10000 other types. Since no one at national or any other level has done anything to correct us....then we must be right?

But back to the subject of "examples of bad uniforms on the web".  In the long run they don't really help.
By all means surf the web find bad and good examples and make a power point presentation and pass it to you your PAOs.  I am all for that.  But not on CapTalk please.

[A.Member]

Major Harris,

I disagree about locking this thread.  I think threads that point out uniform or C&C infrasctions are very useful.  As a PAO, I challenge myself to identify the infraction, if not blatant.  Many even post the regs to substantiate their remarks.  Again, very useful.

But locking a thread because of the use of colorful adjectives and adverbs is a disservise, I believe.  If we keep it civil, this can be a learning tool for all, and content for our presentations.

If it was simply done in the spirit of "This is how to post photos and these are some common errors".  I would agree with you.

But all too often (as we see here) it turns into name calling or poor joke on the people in the photos.
One one level it is not their fault that they are out of regulations.  Someone told them to wear their uniforms that way, or allowed them to continue to wear it that way. 

Yes...yes....RTFM!  But let's face it....not everyone has the time or inclination to do so.  And if someone does what they think is right (or actively/purposely violates the reg) and no one corrects them then they will continue to do so.

I look in the regs today and just learned that 90% of CAP is out of 39-1 in respect to the ball cap.
In BDU only the camo ball cap is authorised.....and yet here we are years and years into CAP and we never see a camo ball call....but we see 10000 other types. Since no one at national or any other level has done anything to correct us....then we must be right?

But back to the subject of "examples of bad uniforms on the web".  In the long run they don't really help.
By all means surf the web find bad and good examples and make a power point presentation and pass it to you your PAOs.  I am all for that.  But not on CapTalk please.

I don't know.   Perhaps someone will recognize the offender(s) and be so good as to help them correct the issue.  It raises awareness and I don't see that as a bad thing at all.  Apparently, one person in this thread knows the offending Lt. Col...

[DBlair]

The patch above the name tag is an IC badge

Well that's not where you wear it on the BDU's.  She needs to make a choice - GBD or IC.

All of these and the myriad other issues should be fixed on the spot - that's one of the reasons we have national activities
is to bring standardization and correction to people in situations like these.

When I went (back in the 90s when it was still NGSAR), upon arrival, everyone (staff and students) was required to remove any improper patches or that had not been authorized Nationally, which included wing-specific activity patches, etc. While it was upsetting to some not being able to show off their past involvement, it did present a consistent uniform standard. Seems things have been quite a bit more lax in recent years.

[BillB]

Years and years ago, Southeast Region appointed Assistant IGs to basically be uniform police. They would vistit squadrons and make up lists of improper uniforms and presented the list the the Squadron Commander. They did not confront members in improper uniforms. The system worked well in getting Commanders to correct members uniforms. It made Commanders more aware of 39-1. When the program folded at Region level, several SER Wings continued the practive for a few years more.
At the 1974 SER Encampment at Eglin AFB, with over 300 cadets, and 30 Seniors attending only 6 uniform violations were found in both blues and fatigue uniforms.

[lordmonar]

The thing is....that is what commanders should be doing anyways.

Group and wing should be holding squadrons to the standard and regional and nation should be holding wings to the standards.

It is happening 90% of the time.....but it is the 10% that ends up on face book and makes us look silly.

National is not holding the worst offenders to the fire and that makes it harder for the rest of us to keep up the standards.

This is one of those top down inititives.

National has got to get CAWG and PAWG (the worst offenders) into line.....and then they need to keep their national activities in line (NESA issues out of reg T-shirts to all their participants and allows their students and staff to be out of regs).

That makes it easier for us at the squadron and wing level to get our ducks into a row.

It is the same old argument.

[SarDragon]

Bill, I think things were simpler back then. I don't think we could even get an IG team like that to even reach a consensus on how to enforce the mish-mash of rules in force today. Remind yourself about the discussions on here and CS, and then imagine an IG team. I see chaos.

[Eclipse]

Bill, I think things were simpler back then. I don't think we could even get an IG team like that to even reach a consensus on how to enforce the mish-mash of rules in force today. Remind yourself about the discussions on here and CS, and then imagine an IG team. I see chaos.

I don't agree on two fronts, first, the regs aren't really a mish-mash, the majority of the approved items have been substantially the same for a decade.

Second, in almost all cases, we're not talking about a situation involving a micrometer, an ICL, or a controversial, incorrectly implemented
board decision, we're talking about clear violations of bright-line items.

It is happening 90% of the time.....but it is the 10% that ends up on face book and makes us look silly.

I believe this is a perfect storm of members who are both poorly educated on our uniforms regs, and/or not inclined to consider CAP's image when they post something that is "kewl".

We all know that these issues have been a challenge for CAP since day...well...probably 2...but it's only recently that we can literally see them in real time on a national scale.

[Short Field]

I don't know.   Perhaps someone will recognize the offender(s) and be so good as to help them correct the issue.  It raises awareness and I don't see that as a bad thing at all. 

Of course you are right.  We need to be posting more photos of senior members and cadets so we can poke fun at them and maybe someone will recognize them and be so good as to help them correct the issue... Right. 

[HGjunkie]

I don't know.   Perhaps someone will recognize the offender(s) and be so good as to help them correct the issue.  It raises awareness and I don't see that as a bad thing at all. 

Of course you are right.  We need to be posting more photos of senior members and cadets so we can poke fun at them and maybe someone will recognize them and be so good as to help them correct the issue... Right.

Yep, makes perfect sense...  *facepalm*.

[DakRadz]

Just send all offenders to the Honor Guard Academy staff.

HGjunkie, think that would solve the problems?

[HGjunkie]

Just send all offenders to the Honor Guard Academy staff.

HGjunkie, think that would solve the problems?

Oh, I think it would do more than that- If you are a white hat, then you would be given 5 minutes to correct the problem. but since we weren't wearing bdu's, hard to tell how upset they would be over an incorrect uniform. It PROBABLY wouldn't be pretty though...

[DakRadz]

http://www.nationalhonorguardacademy.com/

I'll just leave this here 

Yeah, definitely not pretty. I haven't even been, but I've heard enough to know. ^_^  I would soo love to see HGA inspecting all other NCSAs run by CAP. THAT would be worth filming and selling DVDs of to provide funding for HGA, eh? :clap: :angel: