CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: winterg on December 30, 2015, 12:20:17 PM

Title: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 30, 2015, 12:20:17 PM
"According to the most recent data released September 2015, rates of obesity now exceed 35 percent in three states (Arkansas, West Virginia and Mississippi), 22 states have rates above 30 percent, 45 states are above 25 percent, and every state is above 20 percent. Arkansas has the highest adult obesity rate at 35.9 percent, while Colorado has the lowest at 21.3 percent."
http://stateofobesity.org/rates/ (http://stateofobesity.org/rates/)

Physical fitness and Senior Members in Civil Air Patrol.  It is a controversial topic and has been argued ad naseum in many threads here.  But my hope in creating this thread is to maybe put our collective heads together to try and come up with ideas to combat this in our organization.

Rather than argue whether the restriction of USAF style uniforms to members who meet the height/weight requirements is obesity discrimination, I propose we use our collective abilities to gather resources that will hopefully aid ourselves and fellow members to lead healthier lifestyles.  We can work to help create a culture of healthy choices in our organization for the betterment of all of our members.

The usual arguments are that,

"I have old injuries that prevent me from working out."  There are medically approved exercise and diet programs that are designed to work around any injury, even amputations.

"I'm just too old."  There are exercise and diet programs for any age category.

"I don't have any time!"  Proper diet and exercise of just 20 minutes a day, a few days a week, will possibly add years to your life.  Think of it as banking time.

"I can't afford a gym membership."  Rocky didn't need a gym!

"I have a medical condition that causes the weight gain."  There are actual medical causes of weight gain such as hyperthyroidism, Cushing's Syndrome, Depression, and medications.  All of which are treatable by a physician.  And I am not claiming that any of these issues are easy to deal with by any means.

The bottom line is, we as members can, and should, be doing more to promote healthy lifestyles in our organization for the well-being of our members as well as to be the example in our communities.

Why can't CAP as an organization negotiate a corporate rate with a gym chain the way many organizations and companies do?

The Presidents Challenge program is used as a basis for our cadet physical fitness standards.  The Presidents Challenge has programs for all ages that we can voluntarily incorporate into our program as senior members.  I am not talking about senior members passing a mile run or being able to pass the CPFT.  But as an organization, we currently do nothing to promote and encourage a healthy lifestyle among our senior members and I wholeheartedly believe we can and should be doing this.

If you think that CAP has no business offering healthy choices to its members, then that is fine.  But if you have ideas, I am interested in hearing them.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on December 30, 2015, 01:33:00 PM
Good thoughts here. Thought that the HSOs were supposed to have a role in this. Do they still exist?

As the population gets older and fatter, its always a good idea to revisit what we are and are not doing. I've always found it to be a bit hypocritical of the senior membership to demand physical fitness from the cadets when the stereotype is of a donut dusted coffee swilling senior.

Getting active doesn't mean squadron PT, but there should be some kind of physical fitness program for those that wish to participate. Face it, there are some people, even in our ranks, that are just plain vanilla lazy. A culture of physical fitness, healthy living and well being should be encouraged. This can be as simple as having seniors participate in drill (if you have never done it, or are out of practice, it can be a bit of a challenge), or other incentive based programs with some structure to them.

My first year as a squadron commander, we had full squadron drill, and for the seniors we had a "biggest loser" type of program. Those that did not participate regretted that they did not.

Your point about the gyms is a good one. Check out your locality for municipal gyms. Lots of times they are free and go mostly unused. If the Scouts and local teams can use them as a group, no reason that CAP can't...
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: dwb on December 30, 2015, 02:25:31 PM
Fitness is not a component of the senior member professional development program. Fitness is a component of the cadet program, which is why we evaluate on it and why we emphasize it.

I support the idea of encouraging healthy habits among all of our members (which, you know, units are welcome to do today). I don't know of an easy way to shoehorn fitness education into the PD program.

When the new CAPP 52-18 hits, there will exist an optional fitness education officer role. I'm down with the idea of encouraging seniors to participate in the educational portions of the new program, maybe with lesson plans specific to their age groups.

There are already so many requirements we place on our volunteers. I would be very apprehensive to add something else to that burden, even if it is a worthwhile cause like fitness.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 30, 2015, 02:35:47 PM
Nowhere did I suggest, nor am I advocating, adding a physical fitness requirement to the senior member PD program. That would be a sure fire way to make sure it never happened. 

I am, however, advocating that CAP take a larger role in promoting and encouraging a healthier lifestyle for our entire membership, not just cadets.  And not at the unit level, here and there, but rather the national level.

Incentive programs for fitness achievments as provided by the President's Challenge program cones to mind.  More emphasis on healthy food choices for any budget.

The addition of a physical fitness officer is great.  But I am sure this will be only for the cadet program and not the adult membership.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: FW on December 30, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on December 30, 2015, 01:33:00 PM
Good thoughts here. Thought that the HSOs were supposed to have a role in this. Do they still exist?

As the population gets older and fatter, its always a good idea to revisit what we are and are not doing. I've always found it to be a bit hypocritical of the senior membership to demand physical fitness from the cadets when the stereotype is of a donut dusted coffee swilling senior.

Getting active doesn't mean squadron PT, but there should be some kind of physical fitness program for those that wish to participate. Face it, there are some people, even in our ranks, that are just plain vanilla lazy. A culture of physical fitness, healthy living and well being should be encouraged. This can be as simple as having seniors participate in drill (if you have never done it, or are out of practice, it can be a bit of a challenge), or other incentive based programs with some structure to them.

My first year as a squadron commander, we had full squadron drill, and for the seniors we had a "biggest loser" type of program. Those that did not participate regretted that they did not.

Your point about the gyms is a good one. Check out your locality for municipal gyms. Lots of times they are free and go mostly unused. If the Scouts and local teams can use them as a group, no reason that CAP can't...

We still have HSO's.  They are tasked with such things, and it is a shame we don't take PT more seriously as senior members.  I agree with Winterg that CAP should take a larger role in promoting a healthier lifestyle for the entire membership.  Healthier members mean higher mission effectiveness.  But, we have corporate distinctive uniforms for a reason...

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Paul_AK on December 30, 2015, 03:54:06 PM
Quote from: dwb on December 30, 2015, 02:25:31 PM
There are already so many requirements we place on our volunteers. I would be very apprehensive to add something else to that burden, even if it is a worthwhile cause like fitness.
Volunteer programs are a tricky thing to run. With an organization with such a varied membership base such as CAP, any additional burden might be cause to sever ties. Heck, even grooming standards fall by the wayside sometimes in order to retain qualified aircrews. If we can't add a full on PT program, perhaps something that is an incentive? I'm not sure if some fitness excellence medal/certificate/whatever with presentations being conducted at Wing or Region conferences would be successful but some form of enticement rather than an additional PD requirement might be the ticket, as winterg previously mentioned.

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Holding Pattern on December 30, 2015, 04:42:02 PM
Optional+recognition is the way to start, and possibly the way to stay.

I've always been more motivated by optional goals over mandatory requirements, personally.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: TheSkyHornet on December 30, 2015, 06:32:28 PM
While I'm in favor of a senior member fitness program, a key point of discussion is the fact have not just promoting physical fitness and healthy lifestyles for all members but having a fitness program that actually addresses how to stay physically fit and exercises to be evaluated (if there is a CPFT requirement for seniors).

One of the problems I do see from a policy standpoint is the fact that we are a volunteer corps that does not discriminate based on age or physical disabilities. It's very hard to provide a structured training program for adults who may have various physical limitations, if ever such a program was going to have some form of grading criteria (which doesn't seem to be the suggestion here). If it's a do-at-your-own-will fitness program designed for the typical adult male based on military standards, then I don't see why one can't be formulated. Many seniors already do PT alongside the cadets. Us smaller squadrons don't always have that luxury due to safety/observation limitations with our staff numbers, but there are some of us who do support it.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SarDragon on December 30, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
The primary cause for obesity is eating too much. Until people learn to cut down on their food intake, they are going to be fat. This is what we need to encourage among the members, and society in general.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Brit_in_CAP on December 30, 2015, 08:24:46 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on December 30, 2015, 01:33:00 PM
This can be as simple as having seniors participate in drill (if you have never done it, or are out of practice, it can be a bit of a challenge),
>:D
I joined the cadets for drill this week......they are still laughing about it...!
We had a little 'lost in translation' problem when I was giving orders and, despite the best efforts of the C/CC, I *still* cannot About Face correctly.. :-[

Brought a smile or two, which was the point!
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: TheSkyHornet on December 30, 2015, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on December 30, 2015, 08:24:46 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on December 30, 2015, 01:33:00 PM
This can be as simple as having seniors participate in drill (if you have never done it, or are out of practice, it can be a bit of a challenge),
>:D
I joined the cadets for drill this week......they are still laughing about it...!
We had a little 'lost in translation' problem when I was giving orders and, despite the best efforts of the C/CC, I *still* cannot About Face correctly.. :-[

Brought a smile or two, which was the point!

I personally recommend that seniors do not learn drill with the cadets. Teach this separate, perhaps with the First Sergeant helping to teach seniors, but not in the cadet flight. Just my opinion, though.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Flying Pig on December 30, 2015, 10:07:14 PM
Not that seniors cannot learn to drill, but they do not need to be out drilling with cadets.  This is something that needs to be done with a senior who knows drill.  There isn't any unit anywhere that cant find a senior to teach drill.  Cadets do not need to be standing around giggling and essentially making fun of seniors because that's what happens.   As a former cadet myself I know how this looks from the eyes of a cadet.  As a former Senior who was a DCC and a Sq CC, I know how this looks from the eyes of the cadets and from the eyes of a senior who used to make fun of seniors as a cadet.  They go back and make fun of you!  They don't go back and say "Wow... Lt Smith is so awesome for trying to learn how to drill isn't he?  I really respect him for at least trying."

At a last resort, what was posted before, have the Seniors be taught by the cadet staff away from the rank and file cadets.  Be competent in your position and your skills. Be technically and tactically proficient but never place yourself in a position to be entertainment.  There is no leadership value in it.  If you have the desire to be proficient at drill, then learn it privately and perform when the need arises and learn it to the point where you are competent.  Otherwise, stay away from it if you cant commit to being at least as good as your cadet leadership.  You'll just make a fool out of yourself.  You wont be gaining any respect.  Drill is a huge part of a cadets life.  Cadets have an almost unrealistic view of drill as the determining factor for how they evaluate everything.  Its holy to them.   If you cant drill as a cadet, you are a lesser being.  Id say more so than a cadet who cant PT.  Don't dabble in their holy rite of passage and then think you will earn their respect by learning some facing and marching movements.  You are best to just stay away from it totally.  In 6 years as a cadet, 8 in the Infantry, 18 as a cop and now as an LE unit commander,  I cant recall anytime Ive ever gained respect for a leader or earned respect from my people because they made me laugh, or I made them laugh at my expense by displaying my humorous lack of knowledge.  Im not saying pretend to be something you are not.  What Im saying is don't go out of your way to display your deficiencies. 


(edit for spelling)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Flying Pig on December 30, 2015, 10:15:56 PM
As far as physical fitness.  its really a tough deal as a society.  People are not involved with CAP enough to have it really affect their daily physical fitness.  They are adults.   CAP has limited time and spending that time talking about nutrition is really a waste of time.  Heck.. in police work we have a yearly PFT and people fail that every year to the point of being terminated for repeated failures.  Im all for it, but its not something CAP needs to spend a lot of time on.  We have different uniforms, we have flight physicals, we have ground team physical fitness requirements to a point right?  For observers and aircrew.... we have Weight and Balance calculations >:D
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RiverAux on December 30, 2015, 10:35:48 PM
The standard CAP response to a perceived need is to produce some sort of award to encourage the desired activity.  So, a senior member fitness award, perhaps based on Presidents Challenge would be the way to go.

The mandatory aspect of it should relate to ground team member qualification.  Some sort of fitness requirement should absolutely be required of all members participating in that program. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Flying Pig on December 30, 2015, 10:38:15 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 30, 2015, 10:35:48 PM
The standard CAP response to a perceived need is to produce some sort of award to encourage the desired activity.  So, a senior member fitness award, perhaps based on Presidents Challenge would be the way to go.

The mandatory aspect of it should relate to ground team member qualification.  Some sort of fitness requirement should absolutely be required of all members participating in that program.

This is true.  But knowing humans.... I don't see a PFT award motivating much beyond just thinking about it.  If you aren't going to unsaddle your couch... a ribbon isn't going to motivate you.  But yes... an award is really about all CAP would be able to offer in the way of motivation. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: dwb on December 30, 2015, 11:11:16 PM
Back to my earlier remark -- think of all the optional, nice-to-have programs we have today. So many squadrons can't even get the mandatory stuff right, much less entertain themselves with optional programs. Is the value provided by another nice-to-have incentive going to outweigh the cost of some OPR developing and maintaining that program, and the additional burden it puts on units that opt in?

I don't mean to rain on well-intentioned parades here. I agree fitness is important. I'm just thinking through the effort involved in creating and maintaining an opt-in program, which probably involves new publications (including cross-OPR and paid/volunteer coordination overhead), new tracking in eServices (with the requisite IT support), and another thing that struggling units look at and go "why are we spending time on this?"
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 30, 2015, 11:32:11 PM
I don't see a need to create any new directorates or staff positions.  The mechanism is already in place in the President's Challenge program for members to track their progress.  Simply use it.  The President's Challenge is even set up to work with large organizations so tracking is not a burden.  The benefits are listed under the Advocate section.

-Recognition on our website and in our "Fitness is Fun" e-newsletter
-Easy-to-use online tools that encourage your target audience to increase their physical activity and earn awards
-Access to awards featuring the signature of the President of the United States
-Use of the President's Challenge logo and materials
-Special portal page for advocates with 100 or more participants that will allow seamless registration for group members, no need to remember a group name or id number[/li][/list]

There are two programs applicable to adults.  The President's Active Lifestyle Award (PALA) that will help people add some physical fitness and healthy eating to their lives.  The second, Presidential Champions, has much higher requirements with 4 levels with medals, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum.

No need to invent new awards either.  Why not utilize awards we already have?  If a member receives the Platinum award in the President's Challenge, they qualify to receive a CAP Achievement Medal.  Maybe award a Unit Citation if a majority of Senior Members in a unit receive the Platinum award.  Although that would reward all the members, even the ones that didn't participate.  But doesn't the Unit Citation do that already?

And while I am never a fan of self reporting, if a member claims to have earned 1 million points for the Platinum award and can't walk to the cooler without being out of breath, maybe some questions need to be asked.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Shawn W. on December 31, 2015, 01:34:00 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on December 30, 2015, 04:42:02 PM
Optional+recognition is the way to start, and possibly the way to stay.

I've always been more motivated by optional goals over mandatory requirements, personally.

+1 to Starflee Auxiliary. Also + 1 to WinterG. Make it optional for those who want to (I would defintly participate) and yes to awards and or recognition. Personally, I do better with fitness and exercise when I have a Battle Buddy also doing it with me v.s. alone.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SAREXinNY on December 31, 2015, 02:32:57 AM
The DoD offers various competitions such as "Best Warrior" competition or "Best Ranger" competition. May CAP could have a "Best Group," "Best Wing," "Best Region," and "Best National" competitions for both cadets and SMs?  We already do similar competitions for drill, AE, etc.  Why not have a PT competition?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SarDragon on December 31, 2015, 02:34:49 AM
Quote from: SAREXinNY on December 31, 2015, 02:32:57 AM
The DoD offers various competitions such as "Best Warrior" competition or "Best Ranger" competition. May CAP could have a "Best Group," "Best Wing," "Best Region," and "Best National" competitions for both cadets and SMs?  We already do similar competitions for drill, AE, etc.  Why not have a PT competition?

Who is going to administer it?

Who is going to pay for it?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SAREXinNY on December 31, 2015, 02:38:59 AM
Who administers and pays for our current wing, region, and national level competitions? NCC is currently in progress right now...run it concurrently with that.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SarDragon on December 31, 2015, 03:09:39 AM
Quote from: SAREXinNY on December 31, 2015, 02:38:59 AM
Who administers and pays for our current wing, region, and national level competitions? NCC is currently in progress right now...run it concurrently with that.

The competition was cut back because of funding issues. Now you want to expand it. Again, I ask, who is going to pay for it? Your response answers nothing.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Fubar on December 31, 2015, 05:25:21 AM
Quote from: THRAWN on December 30, 2015, 01:33:00 PMGood thoughts here. Thought that the HSOs were supposed to have a role in this. Do they still exist?

They do, but according to NHQ/CP, the were not consulted at all when developing the new cadet physical fitness requirements (they chose an outside expert as a consultant).
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: dwb on December 31, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: winterg on December 30, 2015, 11:32:11 PM
I don't see a need to create any new directorates or staff positions.  The mechanism is already in place in the President's Challenge program for members to track their progress.  Simply use it.

Do it then. Nothing is stopping you from implementing this in your squadron now. You can even propose it to your Group/Wing Commander and run it at that echelon.

This doesn't have to be "national or not at all". If you think it's a good idea, try to run it at the Wing level and field test the concept.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 31, 2015, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: dwb on December 31, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: winterg on December 30, 2015, 11:32:11 PM
I don't see a need to create any new directorates or staff positions.  The mechanism is already in place in the President's Challenge program for members to track their progress.  Simply use it.

Do it then. Nothing is stopping you from implementing this in your squadron now. You can even propose it to your Group/Wing Commander and run it at that echelon.

This doesn't have to be "national or not at all". If you think it's a good idea, try to run it at the Wing level and field test the concept.

I do realize all of these tings and I do have a plan.  Opening a topic for discussion here doesn't mean I am trying to reinvent CAP overnight.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: winterg on December 30, 2015, 12:20:17 PM
The bottom line is, we as members can, and should, be doing more to promote healthy lifestyles in our organization for the well-being of our members as well as to be the example in our communities.

BLUF how do you propose to sell it to member especially the adult membership?  We hear it in the news and from Drs, Nurses, etc.  If someone doesn't want to be in shape they are not going to be and no amount of foot stopping, brow beating or regurgitation is going to change that.

My day job spouts it way to much and thank god it's been removed from the eval system and hopefully will no longer be as career impacting as it currently is.

Quote from: winterg on December 30, 2015, 12:20:17 PM
Why can't CAP as an organization negotiate a corporate rate with a gym chain the way many organizations and companies do?

What is the benefit for said gym chains of doing so what are they going to get by this deal that they are not getting anyway?

Quote from: winterg on December 30, 2015, 12:20:17 PM
The Presidents Challenge program is used as a basis for our cadet physical fitness standards.  The Presidents Challenge has programs for all ages that we can voluntarily incorporate into our program as senior members.  I am not talking about senior members passing a mile run or being able to pass the CPFT.  But as an organization, we currently do nothing to promote and encourage a healthy lifestyle among our senior members and I wholeheartedly believe we can and should be doing this.

As and org it is not our responsibility to do so and quite frankly the org has no business trying to jump on the bandwagon.  See above if a senior member has no desire to do so they won't.  You can't make it a requirement for anything nor can you force anyone to voluntarily do so. It's not the orgs responsibility to offer healthy choices to anyone outside of the cadets.

You remind me of an LT I worked for who thought doing a full 90 days of Isanity 5 days a week was a good idea for section PT.  Are you trying to boost some type of sales numbers or are you a Personal Trainer trying to drum up business?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:10:35 PM
I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. Lol. Increasing awareness and opportunities for healthy living with the goal of a healthier member base should absolutely be part of our CAP doctrine. And of course we cannot force anyone to participate. This is a volunteer organization. We can't force any member to do anything. But considering the dangerous trends here in America as far as a lack of healthy habits, you will not convince me that this is an issue we should not be discussing. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:10:35 PM
I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. Lol. Increasing awareness and opportunities for healthy living with the goal of a healthier member base should absolutely be part of our CAP doctrine. And of course we cannot force anyone to participate. This is a volunteer organization. We can't force any member to do anything. But considering the dangerous trends here in America as far as a lack of healthy habits, you will not convince me that this is an issue we should not be discussing.

No it shouldn't a volunteer non profit org has no business trying to dictate members lifestyles and has no business in our doctrine.  There is very little benefit to CAP trying to do anything you have suggested.

And the quote dangerous trend you seem to see and that is being claimed is due to the lack of personal and parental responsibility.  It is not the orgs domain nor place to increase awareness on this since the populace gets it daily.  You want a healthier lifestyle across the country make the healthy options cheaper and more flavorful and that will help to change this so called dangerous trend you claim is there. 

I think you have some type of hidden agenda with this topic.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:10:35 PM
I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. Lol. Increasing awareness and opportunities for healthy living with the goal of a healthier member base should absolutely be part of our CAP doctrine. And of course we cannot force anyone to participate. This is a volunteer organization. We can't force any member to do anything. But considering the dangerous trends here in America as far as a lack of healthy habits, you will not convince me that this is an issue we should not be discussing.

No it shouldn't a volunteer non profit org has no business trying to dictate members lifestyles and has no business in our doctrine.  There is very little benefit to CAP trying to do anything you have suggested.

And the quote dangerous trend you seem to see and that is being claimed is due to the lack of personal and parental responsibility.  It is not the orgs domain nor place to increase awareness on this since the populace gets it daily.  You want a healthier lifestyle across the country make the healthy options cheaper and more flavorful and that will help to change this so called dangerous trend you claim is there. 

I think you have some type of hidden agenda with this topic.
Could you possibly enlighten me as to what this hidden agenda is? Since I have no agenda other than what I have posted here, I cannot fathom what it may be.

CAP demands adherence to a a set of values which dictate how members conduct themselves, in and out of CAP activities.  How is this any different? I think you are seeing a boogy man where none exist. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
Could you possibly enlighten me as to what this hidden agenda is? Since I have no agenda other than what I have posted here, I cannot fathom what it may be.

I think maybe your a new PT or possibly Beachbody instructor trying to boost his/her numbers.  Or you have just became a major fitness nut and think everyone else should be or your just jumping on the bandwagon

Quote from: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
CAP demands adherence to a a set of values which dictate how members conduct themselves, in and out of CAP activities.  How is this any different? I think you are seeing a boogy man where none exist.

1) The orgs scopes on dictating what a member can do off CAP's time is exceptionally limited especially for adult members.

2) CAP cannot dictate how someone leads their lives especially on their own time.  The org has no business trying to preach or make policy about anything not in their scope of authority. 

Sorry but the org cannot dictate membership's personal life and frankly what someone chooses to eat and how often if they decide to exercise is none of the orgs business. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RRLE on December 31, 2015, 01:41:48 PM
No one has addressed the nut of the problem, which is why are people fat? The standard answer is that they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough. So the solution is to encourage diet and exercise. However, the solution is only an answer to the first Why of the 5 Whys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys). Since it only answers the first Why the solution will fail for most people.

The second Why, which I don't know the answer to, is Why don't people diet and exercise? The answer to this Why could be many and varied, leading to an inverted tree structure to get to the fifth Why.

My WAG is that for most people: dieting is a pain - people like what they eat and despite claims to the contrary, most diets are lousy - especially if they involve a change to what people LIKE to eat. Exercise is worse - you have to carve out time out of an already busy day to do something most people don't enjoy. And last - the benefits are not proven to most people. People don't believe statistics - especially if they are being used to justify something they don't want to do - diet and exercise. What people see every day is what matters - they see fat people (of varying degrees of fatness) living to ripe old ages and enjoying life for the most part. They don't see the high blood pressure medicine, diabetes meds etc. So the perception is that the diet and exercise industry is only looking out for its own profits (true to a certain degree).

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:45:10 PM
I am not, a fitness instructor or a fitness nut. At all. But from the tone implied in your post, I doubt my statement will allay your concerns.

You have every right to not support a completely voluntary activity with healthy lifestyle education added to the program similar to our curent safety program. I don't understand the opposition, but that's fine. But maybe I'm tired of seeing friends and family suffer with issues that were completely preventable if they were not engaging in such self destructive behavior.  Maybe I want to be healthier and think it will be easier if there are more people on the same path. Whatever the underlying motication, a healthier membership only benefits everyone involved including the organization. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on December 31, 2015, 01:56:38 PM
Quote from: RRLE on December 31, 2015, 01:41:48 PM
No one has addressed the nut of the problem, which is why are people fat? The standard answer is that they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough. So the solution is to encourage diet and exercise. However, the solution is only an answer to the first Why of the 5 Whys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys). Since it only answers the first Why the solution will fail for most people.

The second Why, which I don't know the answer to, is Why don't people diet and exercise? The answer to this Why could be many and varied, leading to an inverted tree structure to get to the fifth Why.

My WAG is that for most people: dieting is a pain - people like what they eat and despite claims to the contrary, most diets are lousy - especially if they involve a change to what people LIKE to eat. Exercise is worse - you have to carve out time out of an already busy day to do something most people don't enjoy. And last - the benefits are not proven to most people. People don't believe statistics - especially if they are being used to justify something they don't want to do - diet and exercise. What people see every day is what matters - they see fat people (of varying degrees of fatness) living to ripe old ages and enjoying life for the most part. They don't see the high blood pressure medicine, diabetes meds etc. So the perception is that the diet and exercise industry is only looking out for its own profits (true to a certain degree).

So eat the things you like, but less of it. Instead of a whole meat lover's pizza, try 2 slices. As for exercises, do active stuff that is enjoyable. My lovely bride loves going to classes. I'd rather shave my eyeballs. We're both active and healthy and get their on our own paths.

I think the whole point to this is to encourage voluntary participation in a fitness activity. Like I said before, I've done this, it works and it's fun. If you don't want to play along, then don't.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on December 31, 2015, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
Could you possibly enlighten me as to what this hidden agenda is? Since I have no agenda other than what I have posted here, I cannot fathom what it may be.

I think maybe your a new PT or possibly Beachbody instructor trying to boost his/her numbers.  Or you have just became a major fitness nut and think everyone else should be or your just jumping on the bandwagon

Quote from: winterg on December 31, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
CAP demands adherence to a a set of values which dictate how members conduct themselves, in and out of CAP activities.  How is this any different? I think you are seeing a boogy man where none exist.

1) The orgs scopes on dictating what a member can do off CAP's time is exceptionally limited especially for adult members.

2) CAP cannot dictate how someone leads their lives especially on their own time.  The org has no business trying to preach or make policy about anything not in their scope of authority. 

Sorry but the org cannot dictate membership's personal life and frankly what someone chooses to eat and how often if they decide to exercise is none of the orgs business.

CAP does to an extent dictate how people live their lives on their own time. CAP doesnt tolerate excessive use of alcohol or drugs. CAP doesnt tolerate people who have moral issues. The point is not to mandate a fitness routine, but to encourage a healthy lifestyle.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Storm Chaser on December 31, 2015, 03:16:42 PM
CAP already sets a physical standard to wear the Air Force-style uniform. It could very well set a physical fitness standard to be part of the organization, work with cadets (especially in their fitness program), or be engaged in Emergency Services, such as GSAR. It would most likely lose half its membership if it does, since I doubt many would be able or willing to comply with such standard, but it certainly could. That said, we depend on our current membership to operate and are numbers are not growing. For decades, CAP have attempted to be all thing to all people, so I doubt such a standard will ever be instituted.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Paul_AK on December 31, 2015, 04:32:44 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on December 31, 2015, 02:00:14 PM
CAP does to an extent dictate how people live their lives on their own time. CAP doesnt tolerate excessive use of alcohol or drugs. CAP doesnt tolerate people who have moral issues. The point is not to mandate a fitness routine, but to encourage a healthy lifestyle.
It'll take quite a lot to change the underlying cultural issues. Until food choices and portions are better (more accessible, healthier...) and people abandon the sedentary lifestyle that has become commonplace, CAP will continue to display the norms experienced across demographic boundaries. If anything, I think that the CAP is in a good place to become an agent of change if even at a small level. To echo the sentiment of many, making an incentive program would be something at the very least.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: AirAux on December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this? 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Ned on December 31, 2015, 05:25:53 PM
I think I mentioned in the other thread that this can be a touchy subject, and sometimes CT participants have difficulty even discussing it politely.

Here's an old thread (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1552.0) on the topic.

We even had a thread on the Presidential Challenge Program before it got locked.

But I think we could probably get consensus for some sort of optional program with a visible incentive.  Maybe based on the President's Challenge Program (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/) and authorize a PT ribbon with a bronze, silver, or gold clasp for the Challenge awards.  Or maybe a senior member PT badge.

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on December 31, 2015, 05:35:26 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this?

That was rude. CAP does concern itself with a member's mental health. That is why the CISD program exists. Again, who is saying that it needs to be a structured uniformed program? Getting your SM team together on an off meeting night to play volleyball, or hit the gym, or do some kind of physical activity on meeting nights doesn't really require any special uniform. You're thinking is very lateral on this. There are a lot of ways a program like this could work and be greatly beneficial to the individuals, as well as the perception of the organization. No one is saying that it should be a mandatory part of the SMTP, but like ACSC, it's nice to have as an option....
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on December 31, 2015, 05:37:26 PM
Quote from: Ned on December 31, 2015, 05:25:53 PM
I think I mentioned in the other thread that this can be a touchy subject, and sometimes CT participants have difficulty even discussing it politely.

Here's an old thread (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1552.0) on the topic.

We even had a thread on the Presidential Challenge Program before it got locked.

But I think we could probably get consensus for some sort of optional program with a visible incentive.  Maybe based on the President's Challenge Program (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/) and authorize a PT ribbon with a bronze, silver, or gold clasp for the Challenge awards.  Or maybe a senior member PT badge.

This doesn't seem too difficult to implement: https://www.presidentschallenge.org/challenge/active/index.shtml (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/challenge/active/index.shtml)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Flying Pig on December 31, 2015, 06:21:23 PM
I did, however... recently join the US Masters Swim.  Yay me! :clap:

http://www.usms.org/ (http://www.usms.org/)

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 06:22:51 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this?

Then enlighten us as to what else there is?

Sorry but diet and exercise are they key things to weight control and weight loss.  I am not a health nut by any means but nearly any Dr or expert in this category will tell you weight control and loss is mainly 80% diet and 20% exercise.  This is provided the person wants to exercise and eat healthy.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Paul_AK on December 31, 2015, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this?
While your point is valid, the issue appears to be far deeper and more cyclical.

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html (http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html)

https://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/oehp/obesity/section1.htm (https://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/oehp/obesity/section1.htm)

http://www.noo.org.uk/uploads/doc/vid_10266_Obesity%20and%20mental%20health_FINAL_070311_MG.pdf (http://www.noo.org.uk/uploads/doc/vid_10266_Obesity%20and%20mental%20health_FINAL_070311_MG.pdf)


To quote Fat B. from Austin Powers, "I eat because I'm unhappy, I'm unhappy because I eat." Research has shown the benefits of exercise and proper diet in relation to both mental and physical health in abundance.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/12/exercise.aspx (http://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/12/exercise.aspx)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1424736/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1424736/)

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/depression-and-exercise/art-20046495 (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/depression-and-exercise/art-20046495)

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Stonewall on December 31, 2015, 08:23:33 PM
As a CAP senior member with 29 years service, and age 43, I consider fitness to be an incredibly important part of my lifestyle.  For years I have kept a workout journal for personal use, but thought I'd share here, since this is about senior members and fitness.  That said, I do believe an active lifestyle is important for all Americans, but I don't necessarily think CAP seniors should be held to the same standard as the Air Force or cadets.  Remember, in its infancy, through today, CAP is a way for those who couldn't serve to still serve.  For whatever reason, some choose not to lead certain lifestyles, and that's really no ones business; with few exceptions.  Like operating on a ground team, perhaps certain levels of fitness or even a physical exam could be relevant, similar to a flight physical.

So, I am very proud to share my 2015 fitness stats.  Despite two ankle surgeries which caused me to lose almost three weeks of workout time, I still dragged myself to the gym or outside to keep myself as fit as possible.

Total # of workouts:  250

Average workouts per week: 5

Average minutes per workout: 69.5

Total hours spent working out:  289.7

Total miles (bike, swim, run, ruck, etc.):  1,137.25

Average miles per workout:  4.5

Total distance swam: 84,300 meters (52.4 miles)

Different gyms visited:  11 (not including outside workouts)

LA Fitness:  Woodbridge, Springfield, Alexandria, Atlantic Beach, Kernan

Military gyms:  Hurlburt Field, Andrews AFB, Lackland AFB, Scott AFB, Westover ARB, Ft. Belvoir
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: goblin on December 31, 2015, 08:41:06 PM
Thanks for letting us know what military gyms you worked out at in 2015
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Stonewall on December 31, 2015, 08:44:37 PM
I copied and pasted as I closed out my 2015 journal.  Secured and not to be reopened.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SarDragon on January 01, 2016, 05:50:20 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 06:22:51 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this?

Then enlighten us as to what else there is?

Sorry but diet and exercise are they key things to weight control and weight loss.  I am not a health nut by any means but nearly any Dr or expert in this category will tell you weight control and loss is mainly 80% diet and 20% exercise.  This is provided the person wants to exercise and eat healthy.

This is exactly what my doctors (four of them) have told me over the last three or four years. I control my weight almost exclusively through diet. I eat less of everything, and cut way back on the munchies.

Portion control is a significant part of the process. We buy the boxes of single portions of chips and other munchies, so there's little tendency to pig out and make a big bag of something into just three or four portions, instead of the intended twelve or so. The same goes for sodas - buy smaller cans or bottles. And so it goes.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Garibaldi on January 01, 2016, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on January 01, 2016, 05:50:20 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 06:22:51 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this?

Then enlighten us as to what else there is?

Sorry but diet and exercise are they key things to weight control and weight loss.  I am not a health nut by any means but nearly any Dr or expert in this category will tell you weight control and loss is mainly 80% diet and 20% exercise.  This is provided the person wants to exercise and eat healthy.

This is exactly what my doctors (four of them) have told me over the last three or four years. I control my weight almost exclusively through diet. I eat less of everything, and cut way back on the munchies.

Portion control is a significant part of the process. We buy the boxes of single portions of chips and other munchies, so there's little tendency to pig out and make a big bag of something into just three or four portions, instead of the intended twelve or so. The same goes for sodas - buy smaller cans or bottles. And so it goes.

Portion control is significant, yes. I've found that cutting out sodas altogether, even diet, and staying away from anything with massive amounts of sugar, helps. Reducing the amount of bread, starches, anything  that "sticks to your ribs". Maintaining a schedule for meals. Very little snacking, and when you do, eat an apple or a banana or other fruit.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: LSThiker on January 01, 2016, 09:36:15 PM
I will keep this brief as I am typing on my phone.

Genetics do play a role in obseity, but so does diet and fitness.  There have been at least 40 different genes that are involved in obseity. These range from storage of fat to the compulsive overeating. The most "famous" is a mutation in the leptin gene. How those genes play a role in obseity is complex as it involves mutations, epigenetics, and hereditary as well as evolution.

The real question is how much of a role do they play?  A person is simply predisposed to obseity by having these biomarkers, but it does not necessarily make one obese.  Having calorie dense foods and lack of activity is what causes obseity the vast manority of the time. There are a few other diseases and drugs that do as well even if one is active and eats right. 

A person that is genetically predisposed to obesity cannot say that is why they are obese. They are obese be ause of their dist and activity. Of course that being said, it make it more difficult to loose weight but not impossible. These people need to understand that it will take more activity and longer time to loss the weight than other people, which of course is the reason for failure ofmost weight loss diets and programs.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Capt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 31, 2015, 01:16:52 PM
No it shouldn't a volunteer non profit org has no business trying to dictate members lifestyles and has no business in our doctrine.  There is very little benefit to CAP trying to do anything you have suggested.

There are a lot of benefits to CAP to have a healthier, more physically fit, more mentally alert volunteer force, and to think otherwise is obsurd.

Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Can a 400 pound pilot, 400 pound observer and 400 pound scanner cram into a 172 and get off the ground to fly missions? Not with fuel in the tank.

While we certainly can't mandate PT for seniors, the benefits of a fitness/nutrition education program would be numerous. I hate to mention Hawk here, because I know it will spark lots of negativity, but for the Ranger grades, even Seniors have PT requirements. We would probably never require PT for GTM levels, but adding education to the curriculum couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: PHall on January 01, 2016, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Yeah, when was the last time that a CAP "Ground Team" actually did something like this?

We're not equipped or even trained for this. If we have to evacuate a causality, we call the "professionals" who have much better equipment and training to do the job.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 12:05:50 AM
There is no added benefiet to the org trying to teach the adult members about healthy lifestyles.  What is the org going to teach/present that hasn't been covered by a Dr or someone else?

BLUF if senior member want and choose to live a healthy lifestyle they will you can not force them to do so and trying to brow beat with regurgitated information will fall on deaf ears.  This is akin to everyone in the AF who oh so dearly wants every to score a 90 or better on the PT test like something oh so magical is going to happen. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Sapper168 on January 02, 2016, 04:37:59 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on December 30, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
The primary cause for obesity is eating too much. Until people learn to cut down on their food intake, they are going to be fat. This is what we need to encourage among the members, and society in general.

I would strongly argue that it isn't eating too much, but, what you are eating that causes obesity.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 02, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: PHall on January 01, 2016, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Yeah, when was the last time that a CAP "Ground Team" actually did something like this?

We're not equipped or even trained for this. If we have to evacuate a causality, we call the "professionals" who have much better equipment and training to do the job.

Seems we used to do this... what changed?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: arajca on January 02, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: PHall on January 01, 2016, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Yeah, when was the last time that a CAP "Ground Team" actually did something like this?

We're not equipped or even trained for this. If we have to evacuate a causality, we call the "professionals" who have much better equipment and training to do the job.


Seems we used to do this... what changed?
1. Proliferation of local rescue teams who are much easier to call out.
2. Lawyers.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SarDragon on January 02, 2016, 05:42:23 AM
Quote from: Ground_Pounder on January 02, 2016, 04:37:59 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on December 30, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
The primary cause for obesity is eating too much. Until people learn to cut down on their food intake, they are going to be fat. This is what we need to encourage among the members, and society in general.

I would strongly argue that it isn't eating too much, but, what you are eating that causes obesity.

I eat anything I want. Anything. Pizza. Donuts. Chips. Quarter pounders. And healthy stuff, too. I weigh 178 pounds, and am 5'10" tall. It's all about quantity.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 02, 2016, 05:43:03 AM
Quote from: arajca on January 02, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: PHall on January 01, 2016, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Yeah, when was the last time that a CAP "Ground Team" actually did something like this?

We're not equipped or even trained for this. If we have to evacuate a causality, we call the "professionals" who have much better equipment and training to do the job.


Seems we used to do this... what changed?
1. Proliferation of local rescue teams who are much easier to call out.
2. Lawyers.

What are the solutions to these problems?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 06:00:06 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 05:43:03 AM
Quote from: arajca on January 02, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: PHall on January 01, 2016, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Yeah, when was the last time that a CAP "Ground Team" actually did something like this?

We're not equipped or even trained for this. If we have to evacuate a causality, we call the "professionals" who have much better equipment and training to do the job.


Seems we used to do this... what changed?
1. Proliferation of local rescue teams who are much easier to call out.
2. Lawyers.

What are the solutions to these problems?

You willing to take the fiscal responsibility?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Fubar on January 02, 2016, 06:23:30 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 05:43:03 AMWhat are the solutions to these problems?

Wow, a thread jack that doesn't lead to uniforms.

Public safety folks take the path of least resistance when it comes to solving whatever issue is in front of them. In this case, most areas (but certainly not all) have ground SAR solutions that are easier to mobilize and control than CAP. Either in-house teams which offer the lead agency full control of the assets to external teams that fully integrate into ICS, instead of CAP's requirement that CAP be in full control over all assets. Combine that with our limited abilities (by regulation) and having children on our teams, it's unlikely our utilization will change.

So the solutions?


By no means is this impossible, but highly unlikely without a top-down philosophy change. Additionally, if by some miracle CAP decided to be a major player in ground SAR, physical fitness requirements for GTM certifications would not be inappropriate. Volunteer firefighters have physical fitness requirements (at least initially to get on the dept), there's no discrimination in CAP expecting volunteers in the field to be physically capable of fulling their tasks.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: LSThiker on January 02, 2016, 06:28:21 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on January 02, 2016, 05:42:23 AM
Quote from: Ground_Pounder on January 02, 2016, 04:37:59 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on December 30, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
The primary cause for obesity is eating too much. Until people learn to cut down on their food intake, they are going to be fat. This is what we need to encourage among the members, and society in general.

I would strongly argue that it isn't eating too much, but, what you are eating that causes obesity.

I eat anything I want. Anything. Pizza. Donuts. Chips. Quarter pounders. And healthy stuff, too. I weigh 178 pounds, and am 5'10" tall. It's all about quantity.

It is all about quantity for you.  For others, it is about what.  For others, it is about what and quantity.  For others, it is about activity.  For others, it is about what, quantity, and activity.  For others, it is about something different.  As I said, subpopulations of humans are predisposed by biomarkers.  What may work for one subpopulation does not necessarily work for another subpopulation.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 02, 2016, 06:28:29 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 06:00:06 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 05:43:03 AM
Quote from: arajca on January 02, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 02, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: PHall on January 01, 2016, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on January 01, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Can a group of 400 pound GTL/GTM's hike 6 miles into the woods, and carry a casualty back out on a litter, without becoming a liability themselves? Maybe, but probably not.

Yeah, when was the last time that a CAP "Ground Team" actually did something like this?

We're not equipped or even trained for this. If we have to evacuate a causality, we call the "professionals" who have much better equipment and training to do the job.


Seems we used to do this... what changed?
1. Proliferation of local rescue teams who are much easier to call out.
2. Lawyers.

What are the solutions to these problems?

You willing to take the fiscal responsibility?

Is that the solution?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: SarDragon on January 02, 2016, 06:43:30 AM
Quote from: LSThiker on January 02, 2016, 06:28:21 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on January 02, 2016, 05:42:23 AM
Quote from: Ground_Pounder on January 02, 2016, 04:37:59 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on December 30, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
The primary cause for obesity is eating too much. Until people learn to cut down on their food intake, they are going to be fat. This is what we need to encourage among the members, and society in general.

I would strongly argue that it isn't eating too much, but, what you are eating that causes obesity.

I eat anything I want. Anything. Pizza. Donuts. Chips. Quarter pounders. And healthy stuff, too. I weigh 178 pounds, and am 5'10" tall. It's all about quantity.

It is all about quantity for you.  For others, it is about what.  For others, it is about what and quantity.  For others, it is about activity.  For others, it is about what, quantity, and activity.  For others, it is about something different.  As I said, subpopulations of humans are predisposed by biomarkers.  What may work for one subpopulation does not necessarily work for another subpopulation.

I have spent a lot of time eating away from home over the years, and have observed the eating patterns of many people, both from afar, and in the group I'm eating with. With very few exceptions, the heavy people eat a LOT of food. It doesn't help that many restaurants serve huge portions, but it's not very hard to push the plate away without finishing what's been served. Buffets provide a lot of entertainment on eating. The heavy folks go through twice, or fill more than one plate to heaping, and eat huge desserts.

Food intake quantity is, by far, the single easiest thing to control when talking about weight. Don't eat too much, don't weigh too much. Your commentary is certainly valid, and those factors have a bearing, but, based on what I see every day, and discussions with my doctors, they are not the primary reason people are fat.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: LSThiker on January 02, 2016, 07:29:58 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on January 02, 2016, 06:43:30 AM
I have spent a lot of time eating away from home over the years, and have observed the eating patterns of many people, both from afar, and in the group I'm eating with. With very few exceptions, the heavy people eat a LOT of food. It doesn't help that many restaurants serve huge portions, but it's not very hard to push the plate away without finishing what's been served. Buffets provide a lot of entertainment on eating. The heavy folks go through twice, or fill more than one plate to heaping, and eat huge desserts.

Food intake quantity is, by far, the single easiest thing to control when talking about weight. Don't eat too much, don't weigh too much. Your commentary is certainly valid, and those factors have a bearing, but, based on what I see every day, and discussions with my doctors, they are not the primary reason people are fat.

Using people at restaurants as your data points would seem to fall into the "what and quantity" category.

Again, what works for one subpopulation may not work for another subpopulation.  The Harvard School of Public Health has a decent webpage dedicated to this very topic.  I would like to point out a brief point the authors make (although they do expand on both the quantity vs quality topic and leave the bottom line as "make any change is better than no change"):

QuoteConventional wisdom says that since a calorie is a calorie, regardless of its source, the best advice for weight control is simply to eat less and exercise more. Yet emerging research suggests that some foods and eating patterns may make it easier to keep calories in check, while others may make people more likely to overeat.

For your reading enjoyment as there is other good information for others, the link is:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/ (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: lordmonar on January 02, 2016, 08:24:49 AM
And one wonders why we don't have a Senior Member Physical Fitness Program?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 08:43:47 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 02, 2016, 08:24:49 AM
And one wonders why we don't have a Senior Member Physical Fitness Program?

Not needed in any capacity.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: lordmonar on January 02, 2016, 08:45:33 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 08:43:47 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 02, 2016, 08:24:49 AM
And one wonders why we don't have a Senior Member Physical Fitness Program?

Not needed in any capacity.
Even if there was some need (like we would like our members not die so we don't have to replace them) we can't have a civil discussion on what is the best way to meet that goal.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 08:56:21 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 02, 2016, 08:45:33 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 08:43:47 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 02, 2016, 08:24:49 AM
And one wonders why we don't have a Senior Member Physical Fitness Program?

Not needed in any capacity.
Even if there was some need (like we would like our members not die so we don't have to replace them) we can't have a civil discussion on what is the best way to meet that goal.

Civil discussion is fine and dandy but wheb you have people insistent on having something not needed it can be brutal...
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Brit_in_CAP on January 02, 2016, 02:38:12 PM
Started to post and changed my mind.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on January 02, 2016, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 12:05:50 AM
There is no added benefiet to the org trying to teach the adult members about healthy lifestyles. <snip>

I don't know that your position here can be defended.

Members who eat healthier and maintain an active lifestyle would see several health benefits that would allow them to participate more actively in CAP for a longer time.

Eating right and exercising means you will be healthier which directly contributes to a better mental state and directly contributes to a better physique which can improve your confidence and self esteem.  And regular exercise is shown to lead to a reduction in stress.

Making healthy choices helps prevent certain conditions such as heart disease, strokes, and high blood pressure.  The Mayo Clinic says that regular physical activity and proper diet can help you prevent a wide range of other health problems, including metabolic syndrome, diabetes, depression, certain types of cancer, and arthritis.

Proper diet and exercise gives people a boost of energy as well as promoting better sleeping habits.

The American Council on Exercise reported on an eight-year study of 13,000 people. The study showed that those who walked just 30 minutes each day significantly reduced their chances of dying prematurely, compared with those who exercised infrequently.  A longer life means more years in CAP!

I strongly believe that promoting a healthier lifestyle among our membership would have noticeable benefit with returns on invest seen almost immediately.

As to whether CAP should offer information and possible options to our membership about healthier choices, why not.  I have asserted from the beginning that anything should be voluntary in the same way that our Chaplains offer information and guidance to our membership regarding spiritual well being.  Members are in no way obligated to take them up on their offer of assistance.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Stonewall on January 02, 2016, 02:54:34 PM
Life isn't all unicorns and rainbows.

I'm all about health and fitness, but outside of there being a need (flight physicals and maybe some ground ops work) CAP really has no place in instituting fitness standards for seniors.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on January 02, 2016, 02:58:00 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on January 02, 2016, 02:54:34 PM
Life isn't all unicorns and rainbows.
I'm all about health and fitness, but outside of there being a need (flight physicals and maybe some ground ops work) CAP really has no place in instituting fitness standards for seniors.

I absolutely agree.  Implementing fitness standards for senior members would never work and make a significant portion of our membership unable to serve in CAP.  That is why I suggested a voluntary program members could engage in at will to help promote better health.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Garibaldi on January 02, 2016, 03:02:19 PM
This is why we can't have nice things. Ask the 50,000 members about their opinion on a given subject, and you'll get 49,999 differing opinions.

Personally, I've always wondered why we can't have some kind of physical fitness program for seniors. Sure, we could run PT with the kids, and I would not feel very self conscious about doing so. I would think it would give me a little more respectability, that I'm willing to do what they do, rather than stay a "fat and fuzzy" SM who can't even manage to keep up on a road march, which actually happened to me on a SAREX recently. It's embarrassing, honestly, because I used to be in fairly good shape.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, but for those of us who need to be active, it's something to think of. Not mandatory, because you can join a gym, read all the diet tips online, or do the exercises yourself. I'm not looking forward to the day when I have to lead a GT up the side of a hill and have to be carried down because I had a heart attack.

Yes, the other option would be to not lead or participate in GT ops, which is where I'm headed due to my age and lack of physical fitness, but where does that get me? Fatter, lazier, and more prone to dying sooner. But that's my choice, I suppose. Either get busy living, or get busy dying.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 08:19:43 PM
Quote from: winterg on January 02, 2016, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 02, 2016, 12:05:50 AM
There is no added benefiet to the org trying to teach the adult members about healthy lifestyles. <snip>

I don't know that your position here can be defended.

Members who eat healthier and maintain an active lifestyle would see several health benefits that would allow them to participate more actively in CAP for a longer time.

Eating right and exercising means you will be healthier which directly contributes to a better mental state and directly contributes to a better physique which can improve your confidence and self esteem.  And regular exercise is shown to lead to a reduction in stress.

Making healthy choices helps prevent certain conditions such as heart disease, strokes, and high blood pressure.  The Mayo Clinic says that regular physical activity and proper diet can help you prevent a wide range of other health problems, including metabolic syndrome, diabetes, depression, certain types of cancer, and arthritis.

Proper diet and exercise gives people a boost of energy as well as promoting better sleeping habits.

The American Council on Exercise reported on an eight-year study of 13,000 people. The study showed that those who walked just 30 minutes each day significantly reduced their chances of dying prematurely, compared with those who exercised infrequently.  A longer life means more years in CAP!

I strongly believe that promoting a healthier lifestyle among our membership would have noticeable benefit with returns on invest seen almost immediately.

As to whether CAP should offer information and possible options to our membership about healthier choices, why not.  I have asserted from the beginning that anything should be voluntary in the same way that our Chaplains offer information and guidance to our membership regarding spiritual well being.  Members are in no way obligated to take them up on their offer of assistance.

I don't shell out hard earned dollars or give up valuable time to hear about healthy lifestyles and choices I have a fitness center a Dr and my grandma to do that for me. 

You can cry and spout voluntary all day long provide something more than repeated regurgitation (which oh wait you can't)....  Again no added benefit to the org to try and preach healthy lifestyles and choices that's what Dr's and gyms are for.  CAP needs to stay in it's lane and stick to it's missions given to it. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RiverAux on January 02, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: Fubar on January 02, 2016, 06:23:30 AM
In this case, most areas (but certainly not all) have ground SAR solutions that are easier to mobilize and control than CAP.

Actually, I think it is the other way around.  Most areas do not actually have ground SAR teams.  If you're east of the Rockies local GSAR teams are very few and far between. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: PHall on January 02, 2016, 09:49:21 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 02, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: Fubar on January 02, 2016, 06:23:30 AM
In this case, most areas (but certainly not all) have ground SAR solutions that are easier to mobilize and control than CAP.

Actually, I think it is the other way around.  Most areas do not actually have ground SAR teams.  If you're east of the Rockies local GSAR teams are very few and far between.

Rather bold statement, got a cite for that?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RiverAux on January 02, 2016, 10:52:16 PM
Well, we've been talking about this issue on CAPTalk for 10 years and it has been generally agreed that there are very few government-sponsored SAR teams in the eastern US in comparison to the far west and I would think that CAP members discussing this issue are pretty aware of what is going on in their states.  In my own state east of the Rockies only about 10-15% of counties have a SAR team. 

The last time I checked (and it has been about 5 years) there were more CAP ground team members than NASAR members.  Not a definitive comparison, but it says something about the lack of trained GSAR people across most of the US (and that we, for better or worse, are some of the most available resources around. 

If someone would like to spend a few days googling to prove me wrong, thats fine.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Alaric on January 03, 2016, 12:31:12 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 02, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: Fubar on January 02, 2016, 06:23:30 AM
In this case, most areas (but certainly not all) have ground SAR solutions that are easier to mobilize and control than CAP.

Actually, I think it is the other way around.  Most areas do not actually have ground SAR teams.  If you're east of the Rockies local GSAR teams are very few and far between.

Plenty in Illinois, I used to be a part of the Naperville SAR Team and most of the counties had one as well
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Scuba_Instructor on January 03, 2016, 12:43:01 AM
How about a fitness ribbon as an incentive?  The Navy is looking into a fitness award I understand.  https://dmna.ny.gov/awards/fit.html. The NY Army National Guard has such a ribbon, as do the naval sea cadets... If CAP negotiates a good gym rate with a national fitness chain, they could easily administer it and issue a fitness letter (not that different from a non profit organization writing a letter of 60 hours community service participation for the CAP community service ribbon). Just an idea.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: PHall on January 03, 2016, 02:10:10 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 02, 2016, 10:52:16 PM
Well, we've been talking about this issue on CAPTalk for 10 years and it has been generally agreed that there are very few government-sponsored SAR teams in the eastern US in comparison to the far west and I would think that CAP members discussing this issue are pretty aware of what is going on in their states.  In my own state east of the Rockies only about 10-15% of counties have a SAR team. 

The last time I checked (and it has been about 5 years) there were more CAP ground team members than NASAR members.  Not a definitive comparison, but it says something about the lack of trained GSAR people across most of the US (and that we, for better or worse, are some of the most available resources around. 

If someone would like to spend a few days googling to prove me wrong, thats fine.

There may be more CAP Ground Team members then NASAR members, but, how many times has the CAP GT folks been used vs the NASAR members?
I know of a large number of CAP GT members who have never been on a "live" mission. Just SAREX's and Training Missions.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 02:45:56 AM
Yep, primarily because CAP hasn't made a priority of making sure the proper folks know that we have trained and capable personnel. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 03, 2016, 11:08:36 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 02:45:56 AM
Yep, primarily because CAP hasn't made a priority of making sure the proper folks know that we have trained and capable personnel.

Also it seems that most areas just don't consider calling CAP at all, regardless of local squadron readiness status.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 03, 2016, 11:08:36 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 02:45:56 AM
Yep, primarily because CAP hasn't made a priority of making sure the proper folks know that we have trained and capable personnel.

Also it seems that most areas just don't consider calling CAP at all, regardless of local squadron readiness status.

Primarily due to failure on our part to regularly make a point of meeting and training with any potential "customer"...., but I feel we're way off topic now. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Garibaldi on January 03, 2016, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on January 03, 2016, 11:08:36 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 02:45:56 AM
Yep, primarily because CAP hasn't made a priority of making sure the proper folks know that we have trained and capable personnel.

Also it seems that most areas just don't consider calling CAP at all, regardless of local squadron readiness status.

Primarily due to failure on our part to regularly make a point of meeting and training with any potential "customer"...., but I feel we're way off topic now.

Not necessarily off topic, but in a roundabout way on topic, insofar as some local and state agencies look at CAP and some of its members and say "oh H*** Naw!" due to the hodgepodge of uniforms, incompatible equipment, and personal appearance. In some peoples' eyes, that kind of presentation can leave a very, very prejudicial impression on the professionals as a bunch of "military wannabes and junior ROTC rejects".
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on January 03, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
Alright, back on topic. :)  Even if some of the tangents are great discussions.

Civil Air Patrol is already an established Advocate with the President's Challenge.

https://www.presidentschallenge.org/about/advocates/current%20advocates.shtml#Civil (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/about/advocates/current%20advocates.shtml#Civil) Air Patrol

We could easily take advantage of that by encouraging members to take part in the program and committing to recognize members who complete achievements.  It makes a difference to members when achievements are publicly acknowledged.  And using the awards offered by the President's Challenge is a great place to start. Ask the Group or Wing CC to come and recognize the senior members who have reached milestones in the physical fitness challenges.  Certificates are about $0.85 and the medallions are about $6.00.  If that is too much, just have the member buy the award that they will be presented with.

https://www.presidentschallenge.org/shop/category.php?cat=0 (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/shop/category.php?cat=0)

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: RiverAux on January 03, 2016, 04:16:04 PM
There are some other valid reasons for encouraging senior member physical fitness besides those already mentioned primarily related to potential medical costs and death benefits associated with some medical incidents that happen during AFAMS or other CAP activities.  I have no idea how much the AF and CAP pay out for such costs on a yearly basis, but any costs are worth reducing in this area. 

Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: abdsp51 on January 03, 2016, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: winterg on January 03, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
Alright, back on topic. :)  Even if some of the tangents are great discussions.

Civil Air Patrol is already an established Advocate with the President's Challenge.

https://www.presidentschallenge.org/about/advocates/current%20advocates.shtml#Civil (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/about/advocates/current%20advocates.shtml#Civil) Air Patrol

We could easily take advantage of that by encouraging members to take part in the program and committing to recognize members who complete achievements.  It makes a difference to members when achievements are publicly acknowledged.  And using the awards offered by the President's Challenge is a great place to start. Ask the Group or Wing CC to come and recognize the senior members who have reached milestones in the physical fitness challenges.  Certificates are about $0.85 and the medallions are about $6.00.  If that is too much, just have the member buy the award that they will be presented with.

https://www.presidentschallenge.org/shop/category.php?cat=0 (https://www.presidentschallenge.org/shop/category.php?cat=0)

Again going to need more than this for this to take flight.  There's nobreal incentive here for sm to really pursue this.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:50:25 AM
Fair enough.  The unsubscribe button is right there.  :)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Lem on January 16, 2016, 12:42:00 PM
Good day to you all
I can not speak for everyone else  but I personally think there should be some form of physical fitness training criteria for senior members in CAP. Especially if you are ground team member/leader We are here to help people not be come one of the victims  Even aircrews should be physically fit to some extent

Why should we ask of our cadets to do something that we are not willing to do our selves. That is not leading by an example that is more like do as I say not as I do.

I understand there are people that unable to do the PT due to physical limitations. And I am sure there could be some form of waver just like there are for cadets that have physical limitations.  I have two bum knees  and in the next few days 21Jan. to be exact go in for the first of the knee replacement surgeries. But that has not stopped me from riding a bike or hiking or to be a ground team member. I take my anti-inflammatory pills and keep going.

As a Squadron we are looking into doing this on our own, we have a couple of RN's on our staff and one doctor. and they are looking into the Air Force criteria for our age groups. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.   I can say this I look forward to the time in the next six months after both knees are done and rehab is over I can join in on the PT night . Again these is my opinions and you are certainly entitled to yours.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: FW on January 16, 2016, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)

Every time I re read this thread, I smile.  CAP actually promotes a healthy lifestyle for the membership.  It's the reason we have HSOs.  Every annual conference, CAP sponsors its "fitness walk".   There are a few other "examples", however I think the big problem is member "compliance", and lack of a real commitment from leadership.  It is also true we have a culture of coffee and donuts, and if we wrap the donuts in bacon, we become more satisfied with ourselves.  It would be nice if we could strike a balance, but those bacon wrapped donuts are just too strong a pull on our systems... >:D
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: winterg on January 16, 2016, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: FW on January 16, 2016, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)
Every time I re read this thread, I smile.  CAP actually promotes a healthy lifestyle for the membership.  It's the reason we have HSOs.  Every annual conference, CAP sponsors its "fitness walk".   There are a few other "examples", however I think the big problem is member "compliance", and lack of a real commitment from leadership.  It is also true we have a culture of coffee and donuts, and if we wrap the donuts in bacon, we become more satisfied with ourselves.  It would be nice if we could strike a balance, but those bacon wrapped donuts are just too strong a pull on our systems... >:D

Great in theory. But I have never once seen a CAP HSO promote anything associated with healthy lifestyle choices.  And can you give me information on the "CAP Fitness Walk"?  I've never heard of this program/event.  Google didn't turn up anything for a specific event with this name.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on January 16, 2016, 02:35:53 PM
Quote from: FW on January 16, 2016, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)

Every time I re read this thread, I smile.  CAP actually promotes a healthy lifestyle for the membership.  It's the reason we have HSOs.  Every annual conference, CAP sponsors its "fitness walk".   There are a few other "examples", however I think the big problem is member "compliance", and lack of a real commitment from leadership.  It is also true we have a culture of coffee and donuts, and if we wrap the donuts in bacon, we become more satisfied with ourselves.  It would be nice if we could strike a balance, but those bacon wrapped donuts are just too strong a pull on our systems... >:D

On paper it is why HSOs exist. I was in 4 squadrons, 2 groups and 2 wings. Never saw a donut.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on January 16, 2016, 03:37:09 PM
You never saw a donut?  ???

But in those units, HSOs should not have pushed donuts... Was that the reason?  :-\

Did they push bran cereals instead?  :P

>:D
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: FW on January 16, 2016, 03:38:51 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on January 16, 2016, 02:35:53 PM
Quote from: FW on January 16, 2016, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)

Every time I re read this thread, I smile.  CAP actually promotes a healthy lifestyle for the membership.  It's the reason we have HSOs.  Every annual conference, CAP sponsors its "fitness walk".   There are a few other "examples", however I think the big problem is member "compliance", and lack of a real commitment from leadership.  It is also true we have a culture of coffee and donuts, and if we wrap the donuts in bacon, we become more satisfied with ourselves.  It would be nice if we could strike a balance, but those bacon wrapped donuts are just too strong a pull on our systems... >:D

On paper it is why HSOs exist. I was in 4 squadrons, 2 groups and 2 wings. Never saw a donut.

You haven't read this thread?  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=20356.msg373902#msg373902 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=20356.msg373902#msg373902)
:P
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: vorteks on January 16, 2016, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: FW on January 16, 2016, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)

Every time I re read this thread, I smile.  CAP actually promotes a healthy lifestyle for the membership.  It's the reason we have HSOs.  Every annual conference, CAP sponsors its "fitness walk".   There are a few other "examples", however I think the big problem is member "compliance", and lack of a real commitment from leadership.  It is also true we have a culture of coffee and donuts, and if we wrap the donuts in bacon, we become more satisfied with ourselves.  It would be nice if we could strike a balance, but those bacon wrapped donuts are just too strong a pull on our systems... >:D

OK now you got my attention! Breakfast anyone?

(http://cdn.foodbeast.com/content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2015-06-05-at-2.58.17-PM.png)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: lordmonar on January 16, 2016, 04:54:03 PM
Needs bacon.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: NIN on January 16, 2016, 09:01:01 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on January 16, 2016, 02:35:53 PM
On paper it is why HSOs exist. I was in 4 squadrons, 2 groups and 2 wings. Never saw a donut.

Whaaa?  (http://barfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/inconceivable.jpg)
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Live2Learn on January 16, 2016, 10:02:58 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on January 16, 2016, 02:35:53 PM

On paper it is why HSOs exist. I was in 4 squadrons, 2 groups and 2 wings. Never saw a donut.

All at the same time?!!!  WOW!!! 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: USACAP on February 20, 2016, 11:36:09 PM
America is fat. Period.
The active military is pushing towards a 20% obesity rate across the force.
The numbers in the reserves exceed 30% and now exceeds 40% in first term enlistees as of the last USAR state of the force brief @ AUSA in the fall.
CAP is a volunteer organization ... correct me if I am wrong, but CAP doesn't have a Senior Member fitness program. There's no reg for that.
You come with what you have. CAP has uniforms to accommodate obese and unfit Senior Members.
Military PT, for the most part is a disaster ... one that leaves servicemembers weak and crippled when they retire or leave service. It scarcely works for the active force. If you know much about being strong and about fitness - flip open the Army or USAF PT handbook for some seriously good laughs.
See:
http://startingstrength.com/articles/army_weak_long.pdf (http://startingstrength.com/articles/army_weak_long.pdf)
How on Earth would CAP run a fitness program for part time volunteers?
What model would they select? What would work for members age 18-75?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: stitchmom on February 21, 2016, 02:15:58 AM
Perhaps mention TOPS in a newsletter? It's $32 to join and $5 per month in chapter dues. They encourage tracking, portion control, and small challenges like no cookies that week. The pledge is silly but for people who do well with a weekly weigh-in and someone saying Good Job it's a reasonably priced support group.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Chappie on February 23, 2016, 12:09:25 AM
Quote from: FW on January 16, 2016, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2016, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: winterg on January 04, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
Almost 1,700 views on this thread in 3 days tells me that there may be more members interested in this topic than you think.
People stop and look at car accidents.....does not mean they want to be in one.  :)
. <SNIP>  And can you give me information on the "CAP Fitness Walk"?  I've never heard of this program/event.  Google didn't turn up anything for a specific event with this name. <SNIP>



Google: fun walk CAP Conference and you will find a schedule of the 2015 National Conference.  Included is this item:

Saturday, August 29
Function Time Room
Fun Walk/5 K Fun Run 6:30 am Meet at Reg Desk

I have participated as a walker in every one since 2009 (except for 2013 when I didn't go and 2015 when I was under the weather -  sinuses were calling me in Orlando).  As you see there are two groups -- those that walk and those who run - that follow a set course that begins and ends at the hotel.   It's a great way to see the local surroundings...those who are walking have great conversations with fellow walkers.  There are beverages at the conclusion and participants get a button :)

Fixed quote tags -Pace
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: LSThiker on February 23, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
Quote from: Chappie on February 23, 2016, 12:09:25 AM
Google: fun walk CAP Conference and you will find a schedule of the 2015 National Conference.  Included is this item:

Saturday, August 29
Function Time Room
Fun Walk/5 K Fun Run 6:30 am Meet at Reg Desk

I have participated as a walker in every one since 2009 (except for 2013 when I didn't go and 2015 when I was under the weather -  sinuses were calling me in Orlando).  As you see there are two groups -- those that walk and those who run - that follow a set course that begins and ends at the hotel.   It's a great way to see the local surroundings...those who are walking have great conversations with fellow walkers.  There are beverages at the conclusion and participants get a button :)

I have participated in those in the past.  However, they usually go unadvertised and participation by SMs is extremely limited.  I think the last one I attended had about 8 people.  Half of which were former military.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: DesertRat on February 23, 2016, 09:17:31 PM
SO. I just signed up for the President's Challenge: Presidential Champions program. Who is in with me?
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on February 23, 2016, 09:34:37 PM
Quote from: DesertRat on February 23, 2016, 09:17:31 PM
SO. I just signed up for the President's Challenge: Presidential Champions program. Who is in with me?

(In my best Homer voice)...I dunno...seems like a lot of work.....

Actually, it sounds like a good idea. I'm sure there are a few of us here that could do with some time away from the pizza and Xbox and get some exercise time in. We could make it a friendly competition. And make fun of the person that comes in last....
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Ned on February 23, 2016, 09:48:50 PM
Quote from: DesertRat on February 23, 2016, 09:17:31 PM
SO. I just signed up for the President's Challenge: Presidential Champions program. Who is in with me?
\
We actually had a "CT Challenge" group in 2008 or so .  I may be the last surviving member.  Just be sure you choose carefully when selecting between the adult challenges.  It makes a difference, and is difficult or impossible to change later.

Ned Lee
Presidential Platinum Award Winner
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: William K. Bolan on February 26, 2016, 06:30:36 PM
So, should those seniors who dont have med. conditions be required to keep themselves in good physical condition? I mean it would be an excellent representation of CAP, what we REALLY stand for. Not only looks good for CAP, but good for their/our own personal health.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: lordmonar on February 26, 2016, 06:50:23 PM
What we really stand for?   

That we look good?

I thought we were doing missions for America. 
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Storm Chaser on February 26, 2016, 06:55:23 PM
Being fit is not a bad thing, especially those working in Emergency Services.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: Pace on February 26, 2016, 06:59:00 PM
When CAP starts hiring employees instead of recruiting volunteers, I think the organization will be poised to require adult members to be in a particular physical state. Until then, many units are lucky to get the adult volunteers they currently have.
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: CAPDCCMOM on February 26, 2016, 07:08:16 PM
More exercise and less pizza is always a good thing, we all know that. However, we must keep in mind that we are all volunteers. When we start putting on more "requirements" rather than "encouragements", we could lose even more of our members than we are already. As I recall, NHQ put a priority on retention. Telling anyone you can't be here if you aren't as fit as you could be will not retain members.

It also will depend on your role. If you are on Ground Teams, yes you must have a certain level of fitness. But some other very valuable places in the Emergency Services area may not need as high of a level of fitness. Should we encourage, ABSOLUTELY!! Can we force a volunteer, NO.

"You lead by example, not by Force" Sun Tzu's Art of War
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: THRAWN on February 26, 2016, 07:12:09 PM
Quote from: Pace on February 26, 2016, 06:59:00 PM
When CAP starts hiring employees instead of recruiting volunteers, I think the organization will be poised to require adult members to be in a particular physical state. Until then, many units are lucky to get the adult volunteers they currently have.

I don't know about that. There are plenty of volunteer organizations that require a level of physical fitness. I've said it before, if you want to organize voluntary physical fitness activities for SMs, have a ball. I don't see the need for mandatory all hands group PT.

That being said, anybody interested in the Presidential program? DesertRat got me all aflutter about it and then stopped posting...we could motivate eachother, laugh at eachother and have some fun with it. PM me if you're in...
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: CAPDCCMOM on February 26, 2016, 07:13:58 PM
^^^^If this a legitimate opportunity for laughing at each other, SIGN ME UP!!!! Just as soon as I finish this Krispy Kreme >:D
Title: Re: Senior Member Physical Fitness
Post by: William K. Bolan on February 26, 2016, 07:24:42 PM
something as simple as walking at least. Im not talking vigorous exercise. We can do our missions better if we are in good shape. Im not talking hard core abs or big muscles, at minimal be healthy.

We do missions for america. whoever put that in a post. NOT mandatory, but you know, as something they can choose to do. disregard me saying making it a req'd