Just sent my transcript to NHQ for SOS approval

Started by Майор Хаткевич, June 09, 2016, 02:50:00 PM

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Майор Хаткевич

For a while now, I've been saying that LVL3 is where I'll be stuck "until retirement", because there's a snowballs chance that I can swing a week off from work and family to do RSC or NSC. Well, upon doing my research, I figured I'll give SOS a shot, and go that route.


I submitted the eservices app on May 18th, and it went through the chain, back down to group, wing, and no back at NHQ with the transcript request as the latest step pre-registration. I'm excited, and nervous, because the course is intensive enough based on contact hours. I know we've had topics on it here, but for those who have taken and passed the course (or maybe not) in the 18 month period given, any pointers?

THRAWN

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 02:50:00 PM
For a while now, I've been saying that LVL3 is where I'll be stuck "until retirement", because there's a snowballs chance that I can swing a week off from work and family to do RSC or NSC. Well, upon doing my research, I figured I'll give SOS a shot, and go that route.


I submitted the eservices app on May 18th, and it went through the chain, back down to group, wing, and no back at NHQ with the transcript request as the latest step pre-registration. I'm excited, and nervous, because the course is intensive enough based on contact hours. I know we've had topics on it here, but for those who have taken and passed the course (or maybe not) in the 18 month period given, any pointers?

MAKE A SCHEDULE AND STICK TO IT. I did SOS, ACSC and just finished Naval War College. The only way to success is to carve 2 hours out of your day and focus on the course. I wrapped SOS in about 10 months. It's not a complicated course, but it is a fair amount of reading. The upside is that it is a more recognized course to the outside world than the CAP specific internal courses. Good luck!
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

winterg

Good luck! I took a swing at SOS and about a month later got a rather large promotion at work that made it pretty much impossible to get the required study time in and I timed out of the course. Now that things are leveling out I will likely make another attempt. The reading will seem daunting at first, but it is not impossible.

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


Майор Хаткевич

Closest testing facility is at Great Lakes. Score. Beats driving to Scott or Springfield. Lol.

THRAWN

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Closest testing facility is at Great Lakes. Score. Beats driving to Scott or Springfield. Lol.

Got an Air Guard station any closer? Those guys always seemed happy to have something to do when I came in.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: THRAWN on June 09, 2016, 05:27:26 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Closest testing facility is at Great Lakes. Score. Beats driving to Scott or Springfield. Lol.

Got an Air Guard station any closer? Those guys always seemed happy to have something to do when I came in.


The only TCF locations shown were Great Lakes, Peoria, Rock Island, Springfield, and 3 at Scott AFB. None were AF outside of Scott area.



Spaceman3750

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on June 09, 2016, 05:27:26 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Closest testing facility is at Great Lakes. Score. Beats driving to Scott or Springfield. Lol.

Got an Air Guard station any closer? Those guys always seemed happy to have something to do when I came in.


The only TCF locations shown were Great Lakes, Peoria, Rock Island, Springfield, and 3 at Scott AFB. None were AF outside of Scott area.

Peoria and Springfield are both AF (ANG).

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 09, 2016, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on June 09, 2016, 05:27:26 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Closest testing facility is at Great Lakes. Score. Beats driving to Scott or Springfield. Lol.

Got an Air Guard station any closer? Those guys always seemed happy to have something to do when I came in.


The only TCF locations shown were Great Lakes, Peoria, Rock Island, Springfield, and 3 at Scott AFB. None were AF outside of Scott area.

Peoria and Springfield are both AF (ANG).


True. For my purposes...all pretty far. Lol.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 09, 2016, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on June 09, 2016, 05:27:26 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on June 09, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Closest testing facility is at Great Lakes. Score. Beats driving to Scott or Springfield. Lol.

Got an Air Guard station any closer? Those guys always seemed happy to have something to do when I came in.


The only TCF locations shown were Great Lakes, Peoria, Rock Island, Springfield, and 3 at Scott AFB. None were AF outside of Scott area.

Peoria and Springfield are both AF (ANG).


True. For my purposes...all pretty far. Lol.

Yes, yes they are >:D.

Although it's good to know that once I finish my degree if I wanted to do DL I could do them at the ANG bases. I thought it had to be an active installation, vs. Guard.

THRAWN

Nope. Any active TCF will work. The ANG one was walking distance for me so it worked well.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

kwe1009

I finished it last year.  I did the first 3 sections in about 2 weeks.  Having over 20 years as AF enlisted made this pretty easy.  The last section is a 4-week cohort so you need to finish the first 3 sections in enough time to request one of the available dates for the last section and finish that before your 18 month time limit is up.

Good luck!

Майор Хаткевич

Finally have access to the course. Reading galore! 

I'll have to work out how to request the testing at Great Lakes, but that's when I'm closer to being done with the first section.

SAREXinNY

I passed my first test fairly easily a few months ago.  I just took my second test (22B) last week and failed pretty miserably with a 58%.  If you have a military background (particularly AF) you'll have a big advantage.  Unfortunately many of the terms and acronyms used on the test I'm not familiar with (and don't appear to be anywhere in the study materials).  In fact many of the questions on the test didn't seem to correlate with the study materials...but I'll give it another shot in a couple of months!  Good luck!

Stonewall

I've known some very intelligent, studious, and dedicated CAP officers attempt SOS and failed to complete it.  If you're not getting paid to do it and it isn't going to give you a masters degree or a professional promotion, then I just couldn't see doing it.

In the end, you're going to spend 100x more time on SOS than going to RSC or NSC.

Here's something to think about.  There are Tech Sergeants in the Air Force that are taking and failing the NCO Academy (Course 15) by correspondence and failing it at a rate of almost 50%.  And they are full time experienced NCOs who often are given time to study and prepare.

Just some food for thought.  I applaud your efforts and determination, but I would find a way to attend a one week course over taking any type of distance learning option.
Serving since 1987.

kwe1009

Quote from: Stonewall on June 12, 2016, 01:21:55 PM
I've known some very intelligent, studious, and dedicated CAP officers attempt SOS and failed to complete it.  If you're not getting paid to do it and it isn't going to give you a masters degree or a professional promotion, then I just couldn't see doing it.

In the end, you're going to spend 100x more time on SOS than going to RSC or NSC.

Here's something to think about.  There are Tech Sergeants in the Air Force that are taking and failing the NCO Academy (Course 15) by correspondence and failing it at a rate of almost 50%.  And they are full time experienced NCOs who often are given time to study and prepare.

Just some food for thought.  I applaud your efforts and determination, but I would find a way to attend a one week course over taking any type of distance learning option.

That Course 15 is a poorly written course (both the course material and tests).  I have seen both Course 15 and SOS and SOS is by far better written and easier.

I highly encourage everyone to take SOS.  It is free, you get to learn more about the Air Force style of Officership and for those that can't/won't take the vacation time necessary to attend RCS/NSC it give them the ability to continue to advance in CAP.  There really is no downside to taking SOS.  If you fail or are unable to complete it in the allotted time, there is not retribution against you.

For those that have passed it I still encourage you to attend RSC and NSC.


Eclipse

Quote from: kwe1009 on June 12, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
I highly encourage everyone to take SOS.

Unfortunately this opportunity is no longer open to "everyone".

My issue is relevance.  Just as with the old ECI-13, these courses are USAF PME, and while "leadership is leadership", to this day I
question how knowing about Linebacker helps a squadron staffer deal with volunteers in a non-combatant environment.

I don't have any issue with members taking advantage of any and all opportunities open to them, but even at the time
when I had the SOS / RSC choice, I couldn't imagine dragging that root canal over a months-long period of time, although
obviously there are some people who really enjoy and excel at these correspondence situations.

When you consider what a pinch point RSC is for most members (the term "paid vacation" is less and less a "thing" in today's
economic reality, and for those that get it "divorce" sometimes follows the "no Disney this year I'm going to a CAP class"),
NHQ needs to look at more creative ways to offer this - perhaps multiple weekends over a couple months.

At least the most recent curriculum, from what I understand, isn't just a rehash of SLS/CLC as it was when I did it.

"That Others May Zoom"

Garibaldi

Quote from: Eclipse on June 12, 2016, 03:41:25 PM
Quote from: kwe1009 on June 12, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
I highly encourage everyone to take SOS.

Unfortunately this opportunity is no longer open to "everyone".

My issue is relevance.  Just as with the old ECI-13, these courses are USAF PME, and while "leadership is leadership", to this day I
question how knowing about Linebacker helps a squadron staffer deal with volunteers in a non-combatant environment.

I don't have any issue with members taking advantage of any and all opportunities open to them, but even at the time
when I had the SOS / RSC choice, I couldn't imagine dragging that root canal over a months-long period of time, although
obviously there are some people who really enjoy and excel at these correspondence situations.

When you consider what a pinch point RSC is for most members (the term "paid vacation" is less and less a "thing" in today's
economic reality, and for those that get it "divorce" sometimes follows the "no Disney this year I'm going to a CAP class"),
NHQ needs to look at more creative ways to offer this - perhaps multiple weekends over a couple months.

At least the most recent curriculum, from what I understand, isn't just a rehash of SLS/CLC as it was when I did it.

I am in full agreement with this. I am not able, nor willing, to take a week out of my life to attend RSC or NSC or any of the other courses required for Level 4 or 5. I am a career major, stuck at level 3 because I do not possess a degree, which eliminates me from any of the Distance Learning courses that would satisfy the substitute requirement for RSC and above. If it were easier and more convenient for, say, the other 83% of us to take it, I'd do it. But, perhaps this is a way to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.

Not all of us are kollij gradyooits, and yet we're punished, in a way, from being able to substitute a week of courses with a distance learning opportunity.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Eclipse

Quote from: Garibaldi on June 12, 2016, 04:30:11 PMNot all of us are kollij gradyooits, and yet we're punished, in a way, from being able to substitute a week of courses with a distance learning opportunity.

It's another place CAP is trying to emulate the military model, but ultimately defeats the very purpose set forth.

To be fair, in this case, the issue is legitimately out of CAP's hands, though one could certainly speculate as to how hard NHQ "pressed"
when the changes were made.

I'd be willing to bet a significant portion of the issue was members in the military taking PME they would not otherwise be
qualified for, which resulted (based on anecdotal comments here), in weird transcripts, especially for NCOs, so rather then
address on a per-member basis, they just closed the door for all.

And by "significant", I mean "somebody noticed a couple", since overall the number of members who do SOS is relatively small.

"That Others May Zoom"

kwe1009

Quote from: Eclipse on June 12, 2016, 05:12:29 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 12, 2016, 04:30:11 PMNot all of us are kollij gradyooits, and yet we're punished, in a way, from being able to substitute a week of courses with a distance learning opportunity.

It's another place CAP is trying to emulate the military model, but ultimately defeats the very purpose set forth.

To be fair, in this case, the issue is legitimately out of CAP's hands, though one could certainly speculate as to how hard NHQ "pressed"
when the changes were made.

I'd be willing to bet a significant portion of the issue was members in the military taking PME they would not otherwise be
qualified for, which resulted (based on anecdotal comments here), in weird transcripts, especially for NCOs, so rather then
address on a per-member basis, they just closed the door for all.

And by "significant", I mean "somebody noticed a couple", since overall the number of members who do SOS is relatively small.

I think the issue with SOS is a concern by Air University over accreditation.  If they allow people without degrees to attend this class it may have a negative impact on it.  This is pure speculation on my part but does make sense.  I am also an Air Force SNCO and my completion of SOS does not appear anywhere in my records other than an EPR (annual evaluation) that has a line about me completing it.  So as far as the Air Force is concerned, I never took it.  That kind of stinks too.

As for other options for people to get over the RSC/NSC hump, I completely agree that something needs to be done.  In this age of technology it would not be too difficult to do the class remotely, via video conference perhaps spread out over a few weeks.  I know that you lose some of the interaction that you get in a face-to-face environment but the people who won't/can't go to RSC in person aren't getting the interaction anyway and they aren't getting the training.

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: kwe1009 on June 12, 2016, 06:47:19 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 12, 2016, 05:12:29 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 12, 2016, 04:30:11 PMNot all of us are kollij gradyooits, and yet we're punished, in a way, from being able to substitute a week of courses with a distance learning opportunity.

It's another place CAP is trying to emulate the military model, but ultimately defeats the very purpose set forth.

To be fair, in this case, the issue is legitimately out of CAP's hands, though one could certainly speculate as to how hard NHQ "pressed"
when the changes were made.

I'd be willing to bet a significant portion of the issue was members in the military taking PME they would not otherwise be
qualified for, which resulted (based on anecdotal comments here), in weird transcripts, especially for NCOs, so rather then
address on a per-member basis, they just closed the door for all.

And by "significant", I mean "somebody noticed a couple", since overall the number of members who do SOS is relatively small.

I think the issue with SOS is a concern by Air University over accreditation.  If they allow people without degrees to attend this class it may have a negative impact on it.  This is pure speculation on my part but does make sense.  I am also an Air Force SNCO and my completion of SOS does not appear anywhere in my records other than an EPR (annual evaluation) that has a line about me completing it.  So as far as the Air Force is concerned, I never took it.  That kind of stinks too.

As for other options for people to get over the RSC/NSC hump, I completely agree that something needs to be done.  In this age of technology it would not be too difficult to do the class remotely, via video conference perhaps spread out over a few weeks.  I know that you lose some of the interaction that you get in a face-to-face environment but the people who won't/can't go to RSC in person aren't getting the interaction anyway and they aren't getting the training.

How could accreditation be an issue for SOS?

Institutions can give whatever university credit they want for SOS (or no credit). But SOS has been evaluated for credit by ACE (American Council on Education). The current (since 2004) version of the course is recommended for 6 upper division undergraduate units, i.e. toward a bachelors degree.

So - not only does there appear to be no accreditation issue, but SOS could actually help somebody in their quest for a bachelors degree. Why NOT let non-degreed CAP people take it? Unless...we somehow ended up bouncing into a gatekeeper along the way. "Air Force officers taking SOS already have bachelor degrees. Therefore, CAP officers "need" bachelor degrees to take SOS." ??? (Does anybody really know why this limitation was imposed?)

If common-sense doesn't work, how about an alternative non-resident course? Let CAP people take the NCO course (I'm pretty sure they don't require a degree for that).

Or...simply copy either the NCO course or SOS. Label the copy "CAP Advanced Officer Course" and open it to anyone who has completed AFIDL 13 (or ECI 7C or whatever the latest permutation might be), or to anyone eligible for RSC.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.