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Convicted felons

Started by Flying Pig, September 28, 2007, 06:28:44 PM

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wingnut

I think our membership rules are going to bite us in the xxx, first we are a Quasi-US Government entity, does don't ask don't tell apply? if the membership committee disapproves of an applicant are the committee members liable for a race or sexual preference lawsuit. Can  an organization that receives over 20 million a year refuse membership to someone who has a disability (including mental health). Our NCIC background check  tells us little other than the person may have been entered into the system, some states never entered data into the system that is over 20 years old. I mean what are we going to do if a Transvestite or a transgender person wants to join knowing they will be denied by the committee, most likely with his lawyer sitting in the background. The boy scouts in California have been kicked out of many public facilities because of this, including county and city facilities.

Flying Pig

#21
No, Dont ask Dont tell doesnt apply to CAP.  Just like it doesnt apply to High School ROTC.  I actually know a couple gay CAP members (And No..Im not PMing anyone).  And we dont DQ someone based on race or sexual preference either.  Not to mention I know several physically disabled CAP members also.  Criminal history has always been accepted as a reason to DQ someone.  If a transgender person wanted to join CAP, theres no policy to prevent it.

Hopefully, if your a Sq Commander youve been educated to know that when you DQ someone at the Sq level, you better have a valid reason, not just writing "because i said so" in the remarks section.

JohnKachenmeister

I dealt with waivers at National before.  I had a woman apply (mom of cadet) who shared with me the fact that she had a 26-year old felony conviction for armed robbery.  I went to the trouble of writing for all the conviction records, police reports, and corrections records, and put them all in a packet.  (She was driving a car that her then-boyfriend stole, and waited while he robbed a carry-out).  I also had her get statements from her current civilian employer, where she had worked since her release from prison, and attach a statement of her own, detailing the fact that she was 19 at the time of conviction, and made some bad choices.  (Selection of a bad boyfriend AND a bad lawyer!)

National waivered her conviction.  I kept her for two years until her cadet daughter went to college, and I lost her with the cadet.
Another former CAP officer

Skyray

Great story, Kach.  I hope you can tell us that she turned out to be a productive member.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

Flying Pig

 And there are 17 year olds who have made the decision to defend their county also.  Instead, she chose to be the driver of a get away car at age 19.

I dont get it.  She admits she was driving  a get away car as an adult, and her conviction was the result of a bad lawyer?

floridacyclist

Not defending her since I wasn't there and don't know the details...but did she know what he was doing inside?
Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
Wearer of many hats, master of none (but senior-rated in two)
www.tallahasseecap.org
www.rideforfatherhood.org

Skyray

Quote from: floridacyclist on September 29, 2007, 08:26:37 PM
Not defending her since I wasn't there and don't know the details...but did she know what he was doing inside?

If she had a really GOOD lawyer, it would have become immediately apparent that she did not. >:D

One way or the other, she had twenty-six years to ruminate on her transgression, and apparently never transgressed again.  Can't you find any Christian (or Jewish) forgiveness in your heart?
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

Flying Pig

Im all for forgiveness, but her spiritual well being isn't my responsibility nor is is up to CAP.   She can feel better about herself somewhere or go visit a pastor.

Skyray

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 29, 2007, 08:48:11 PM
Im all for forgiveness, but her spiritual well being isn't my responsibility nor is is up to CAP.   She can feel better about herself somewhere or go visit a pastor.

One of the best and most effective CAP members I know is a City of Miami Cop that was busted and convicted about twenty years ago.  I would catalog all his accomplishments, but I don't want to sufficiently identify him so that you can figure out who he is.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

Flying Pig


wingnut

Guys

I work at one of the largest Juvenile Halls in the country and I kid you not, the Military recruiters are here all the time looking to recruit kids into the military.

afgeo4

The US military has a system of weighing criminal records. Felonies are usually a no-go while misdemeanors are usually fine. However, the military can get waivers for specific situations and currently, the US Army is working all their waiver might to get as many recruits as possible. They are waiving many felonies, including recent, violent ones. Is it good? I don't think it is, but that's just me. The Army needs soldiers badly and they believe these people can be of service to them and the country. I guess we'll wait and see how this one turns out. By the way, the USAF tends to be much more strict on this issue since they don't have much of a shortage of manpower or potential recruits. They have the luxury of saying "no" to most criminal records.
GEORGE LURYE

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: Skyray on September 29, 2007, 04:26:12 AM
Great story, Kach.  I hope you can tell us that she turned out to be a productive member.

She was good, gave freely of her time, but was in the program for some mother-daughter bonding.  When the daughter left for college, the mom non-renewed.
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: floridacyclist on September 29, 2007, 08:26:37 PM
Not defending her since I wasn't there and don't know the details...but did she know what he was doing inside?

I did not question her extensively.  The record spoke for itself.  I presume that she did.
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

The point is, felonies CAN be waivered.  I sent the stuff... statements, reports, everything, along with a letter explaining her situation from me, right along with her application, fingerprint card, and check.  When she got her Temporary card, I called National, and was advised that the waiver for the robbery was approved, and if nothing else unfavorable popped up, that she would get the Permanent card.

Recent felonies, probably not.  Sex with children, No Way!  And... if the prospective member conceals the felony until it is discovered, THEN requests a waiver, I kinda doubt it.
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

I had one other cool cadet mom... she had worked as a stripper.  GAWD, did I try to recruit her!

I always thought that commanding a cadet squadron in an inner-city area has to be the best experience I ever had in the military.  There was never a dull moment with those guys.

They could make a great movie about a unit like that. Or a TV series.
Another former CAP officer

baronet68

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on September 30, 2007, 02:54:17 AM
The point is, felonies CAN be waivered.  I sent the stuff... statements, reports, everything, along with a letter explaining her situation from me, right along with her application, fingerprint card, and check.

I too have had a prior felon as a member. 

At age 19 he got busted on drug charges and spent 2 years in prison.  Then, 15 years later he was a professional firefighter, married, father of three, respectable citizen, etc.  I wrote a letter to NHQ, sent it along with a statement from his fire department chief, copies of criminal and court records, and his membership application.  His membership was approved and he was active for about 4 years until his sons graduated and moved on.
Michael Moore, Lt Col, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

PHall

Quote from: wingnut on September 30, 2007, 02:12:06 AM
Guys

I work at one of the largest Juvenile Halls in the country and I kid you not, the Military recruiters are here all the time looking to recruit kids into the military.

And if you notice, they're only going after the ones that have misdemeanors. Waivers are much easier to get for a misdemeanor.
Most felonies are pretty hard to get waivers for. And even then, it's very, very hard for somebody with a felony record to get a security clearance, which many military jobs require.

mikeylikey

^ Juvenile records are sealed.  When the military runs their "basic background check" nothing will show up.  However, I personally don't like them recruiting from Juvenile Detention Centers.  I also had a guy (kid) that was given a choice by the judge.....join the Army, or go to prison.  He choose the Army, the court expunged his criminal record then the Army ran their checks.  Needless to say, I busted him on multiple shoplifting events at the PX.  I walked into his room, and he had stacks of unopened Cd's, a laptop and some shoes that went missing from the PX.  I also busted his room mate , as he knew what was going on but failed to turn his friend in.  I hate thief's.
What's up monkeys?

Skyray

I am an antique, and I was in the Marine Corps back when lots of rural judges considered "Or you can join the Marine Corps" a viable sentencing alternative.  Most of them got jerked straight in basic and turned out to be good marines--all they needed was a little structure.  The truly bad mostly didn't make it out of boot camp.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member