Senior Members - College experience?

[ddelaney103]

We are the auxiliary - trying to dress up like real officers when we're not isn't going to get us respect.  It doesn't make it any better to put stripes on either.  Putting on CAP specific grade or a generic Aux badge would stake out a position like civilians - professionals who are part of the team but not full up Airmen.

The branch tape accomplishes that nicely. If it said "US Air Force" then I'd agree we need to put the cutout back with the grade, or some other designator. HOWEVER, the branch tape makes it clear that we are not claiming to be in the AF. Even if it said "USAF Auxiliary" it would be clearly different & distinguishable.

The other half of that thought process is the faker montra. We need to better legitimize our grade by meeting similiar standards & with real training of better selected individuals to produce similiarly capable personnel (commensurate with grade).

I have no idea how many times I've had to deal this "AF wannabe" attitude.

We will never be the equal of military officers - wearing their grade insignia smacks of "dress up."

But there are always people who truly believe that if we just tighten standards (though, ironically enough, the proposed standards always cut off others from officer grade - never themselves) we'll be respected equals.  It ain't gonna happen.  We don't have the authorities or responsibilities of the military and never will.

It reminds me of some of the "bad old days" on the AuxPower forum.  People would come up with officer basic courses that would be the magic key to metal grade insignia and the respect they believe we deserve.

I would be happy to trade in my oak leaves for FO-4 grade right now.  The only reasons I have grade is I needed it for Group Command and a story I heard from a sqdn mate.

He knew an IC who never bothered to promote until a family member of a search target asked him if the AF didn't think the search's chance of success was good.  The family member based this on the fact that yesterday's IC was a Lt Col and today it was a Capt.

We use grade in a way totally at odds with the way the military does it.  We could try to totally revamp the system to bring it into line with the AF, or we could just let it go.  Be the CAP/USAFAUX - no more, no less.

Finally, I don't get your "faker montra" comment - would you care to elaborate?

[FARRIER]

...I thought it would be interesting to see how much of the membership on this board is college educated.

I thought the education level of our members was the premise of the thread, not CAP's rank structure, or our uniforms.

BS Aviation Management
Currently working torward Masters in Computer Information Systems

[SarDragon]

Oh, threads frequently degenerate into urinating competitions about uniforms, rank, and officer/NCO comparisons.     Nothing new.

[Al Sayre]

OK, I'll play along.

Associate of Arts- Santa Fe Community College
Bachelor Of Science in Electrical Engineering - University of Florida
Minor in Business Administration University of Florida

[Flying Pig]

Hmmmm...my turn

I took Algebra twice in High School before finally passing it with a C-.  And never had a free summer because I was always in summer school.  I think that report card is still on my mothers refrigerator.  YESSSSS!

I joined the Marines when I was 17, so I think my teachers just sent me on my way.  Of course, I was the only kid in my school of 3000 that could take their dates flying!

[mikeylikey]

ok..... C/D student all through High School, barely got into a state university.  Grautated as a 3.5 student with a BS in Business Admin, BS in Finance, BS in Pol. Science.  Did ROTC, while I was there, Army paid for my masters in Economics and MBA.  3 weeks away from getting my doctorate in International Business from Penn State (distance ed). 

So....I have college experiance, but doubt it matters in either CAP or the Military.  I learned the majority of what I needed to know to lead as an Army Officer in my Officer Basic Course and the Captains Career Course.  I am not the smartest guy.....and it took me 5 and a half years to graduate with my bachelor degrees, and another 3 years for my MBA/Masters.  I have to say out of all of it, the Doctorate/thesis program Penn State offers online is by fay easier than my undergraduate work.  After all of this I am done with school!   

[Hawk200]

I'm starting to think that even though college degrees aren't necessary, leadership training should be. Especially concerning how it affects subordinates. And a two day course won't cut it. We shouldn't be trying to necessarily mirror military officer standards, but if some of their training will make us better leaders then I think we should be doing it. And before someone gets hung up on marching seniors around, don't bother, it's not even on the radar.

No to degrees, yes to training our people to lead. And that should include whatever is necessary to be good leaders to both seniors and cadets.

[Flying Pig]

Im envious of all the free time some of you seem to have

[Pylon]

I'll toss it in there, too...

Dual B.A. in history and French
Certificate of French language proficiency, University of Paris - Sorbonne

[capchiro]

Okay, I know this is off topic, but the conversation/posts have drifted from education to rank and how all of this helps in making leaders and comparison to the real Air Force (as usual), well, from my experience, one of the things the Air Force looks for in leadership is if an officer is aircrew.  Almost all commanders in the Air Force are pilots with the occasional Navigator or Weapons Operations Officer and the very occasional Missile Man.  If you aren't wearing some kind of wings, chances are you won't lead.  So, do we need to start a new tread asking how many of our people are aircrew?  Actually, I have enjoyed this thread as it has tended to show a majority of the responders have a college degree and I have always felt that CAP'ers are a bunch of overachievers that are hardworking and still find time to give back to their country and community.  I have always been told that if you want something done, give it to the person that is busy and not to the person sitting on their duff.  Our poll supports this position.  Well Done..

[jimmydeanno]

Almost all commanders in the Air Force are pilots with the occasional Navigator or Weapons Operations Officer and the very occasional Missile Man.  If you aren't wearing some kind of wings, chances are you won't lead. 

Would you really say this is the case?  I would say this is true in terms of the most "visible" commands, but not necessarily most commands.  The chances that the services squadron commander is a pilot is pretty slim. The intel squadrons commander is not going to be a pilot or aircrew. The CE squadron commander is not going to be a pilot.  I would say that the majority of commanders in the Air Force are not pilots or aircrew.

I would say if you are talking about "operational" commands, then you are probably right.

[arajca]

I finally graduated with an AAS-IT and 3.85 gpa.

Being a traditional non-traditional student (I grad. hs many, many moons ago), I take a certain amount of pride in this. Next step is to round out a few courses (Eng Comp II  ) then head for a bachelor's degree.

[MIKE]

Almost all commanders in the Air Force are pilots with the occasional Navigator or Weapons Operations Officer and the very occasional Missile Man.  If you aren't wearing some kind of wings, chances are you won't lead.

AKA Universal Management Badge. 

[gallagheria]

I am new to CAP and the Air Force atmosphere, but I suppose you can compare this to the Army with which I have experience and the fact that for the most part, you only see combat arms officers reach the general officer ranks.

Yes you will have unit commanders of the various support and service support branches, but as you get up there, you are very limited if you are not combat arms.

[davedove]

I am new to CAP and the Air Force atmosphere, but I suppose you can compare this to the Army with which I have experience and the fact that for the most part, you only see combat arms officers reach the general officer ranks.

Yes you will have unit commanders of the various support and service support branches, but as you get up there, you are very limited if you are not combat arms.

I too am more familiar with the Army, but I would imagine it's similar in the other services.  It's not so much that you aren't allowed to hold those positions without the experience, but it's very unlikely.  When those commands are assigned, it's much more likely to go to someone who has the experience.

For instance, you're not going to give the command of a combat arms unit to a logistics officer unless that's your only choice.  That officer may do well, but he has no experience to show that.

[mikeylikey]

   Wow......pilots got everything going forthem!

[ZigZag911]

  Almost all commanders in the Air Force are pilots with the occasional Navigator or Weapons Operations Officer and the very occasional Missile Man.  If you aren't wearing some kind of wings, chances are you won't lead.  So, do we need to start a new tread asking how many of our people are aircrew? 

Aircrew --- particularly pilots -- in CAP generally want to fly.

Many of them ONLY want to fly.

Some who have become involved in command and staff responsibilities at wing or higher level regret the fact because it takes them, to a  large degree, out of the aircraft.

To some extent the same holds true for observers and scanners.

If CAP were to restrict command to our equivalent of 'rated' officers, we would have great difficulty finding sufficient officers for all the commands.

[LTC_Gadget]

Almost all commanders in the Air Force are pilots with the occasional Navigator or Weapons Operations Officer and the very occasional Missile Man.  If you aren't wearing some kind of wings, chances are you won't lead. 

Would you really say this is the case?  I would say this is true in terms of the most "visible" commands, but not necessarily most commands.  The chances that the services squadron commander is a pilot is pretty slim. The intel squadrons commander is not going to be a pilot or aircrew. The CE squadron commander is not going to be a pilot.  I would say that the majority of commanders in the Air Force are not pilots or aircrew.

I would say if you are talking about "operational" commands, then you are probably right.

Righto.. The comm squadron, CE or Mission Support squadrons seldom see a pilot in command, unless he's had designator change for some reason..

In my regular job, I worked for a Col who was an academy grad, had already had one trip to the Pentagon, and went down to a major maintenance depot in TX as a one-star.  He later got his second.  In AF Materiel Command, I don't know that wings are a 'hard' requirement, either..

V/R,

[Psicorp]

Almost all commanders in the Air Force are pilots with the occasional Navigator or Weapons Operations Officer and the very occasional Missile Man.  If you aren't wearing some kind of wings, chances are you won't lead. 

Would you really say this is the case?  I would say this is true in terms of the most "visible" commands, but not necessarily most commands.  The chances that the services squadron commander is a pilot is pretty slim. The intel squadrons commander is not going to be a pilot or aircrew. The CE squadron commander is not going to be a pilot.  I would say that the majority of commanders in the Air Force are not pilots or aircrew.

I would say if you are talking about "operational" commands, then you are probably right.

Righto.. The comm squadron, CE or Mission Support squadrons seldom see a pilot in command, unless he's had designator change for some reason..

V/R,

That's because pilots can't speak Comm 

[SAR-EMT1]

I put several years towards a B.A. in History and minor in Music but never was able to finish it.
- And personally I'd be afraid to, as my chances of getting through ROTC are better then OCS, someone tell me if Im wrong-

I do have alot of credits from a local C.C. towards Emergency Services: fire, hazmat, emt etc.   I could possible swing my two transcripts back and forth to make an associates in the image of Frankenstien.