Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[Devil Doc]

Soooo... based on the new Regs, When Can I be Eligible for CAPT? DOR is Feb 2014.

DOR? Did you leave your liner by the bell?

Capt is now Level III + 2.5 years as a 1st Lt., so +30 months from whatever the 1st Lt. date is in eServices,
assuming you complete Level III.

Actually, he beat the 1 June 14 date for the grandfather clause, so he SHOULD be allowed 18 months from his promotion to 1st Lt to complete Level III, which I believe gives him until the end of Aug 2015.  The trick is that he will probably need to finish Level II and then complete all of Level III by then.

So? Since I have completed lvl II already, All I have to do is complete lvl III by August 2015? Do I have to attend any confrences?

[Devil Doc]

Also, there is a PD Tracker on E-Services?

[JeffDG]

Soooo... based on the new Regs, When Can I be Eligible for CAPT? DOR is Feb 2014.

DOR? Did you leave your liner by the bell?

Capt is now Level III + 2.5 years as a 1st Lt., so +30 months from whatever the 1st Lt. date is in eServices,
assuming you complete Level III.

Actually, he beat the 1 June 14 date for the grandfather clause, so he SHOULD be allowed 18 months from his promotion to 1st Lt to complete Level III, which I believe gives him until the end of Aug 2015.  The trick is that he will probably need to finish Level II and then complete all of Level III by then.

So? Since I have completed lvl II already, All I have to do is complete lvl III by August 2015? Do I have to attend any confrences?

You will need to complete Level III for Captain.  If you complete it by August 2015, then you will be eligible to promote at that time.  If not, then you will be eligible once you have completed Level III.

[MICT1362]

I think that the better option would have been to grandfather everyone in for the current promotion that they are working on and then to do a 4-5 year phase in.  This would allow members to promote on the old time frame and then to require the additional PD requirements within the phase in time frame.

Thoughts?

[RMW14]

Sounds good to me but I am a little guy. National I guess has other plans.

[JeffDG]

I think that the better option would have been to grandfather everyone in for the current promotion that they are working on and then to do a 4-5 year phase in.  This would allow members to promote on the old time frame and then to require the additional PD requirements within the phase in time frame.

Thoughts?

CSAG discussed this in May and decided specifically to make the grandfather clause only cover TIG.

[NC Hokie]

I understand that this is a pain for members that have been actively been working towards 1st Lt through Lt Col, but step outside your personal experience and think about what we had before:

- All of the major PME courses (OBC, SLS, CLC, RSC, and NSC) were required AFTER you had already promoted to the rank they were most appropriate for, and Lt Col NEVER had to attend NSC at all.

- Command and staff assignment requirements were also behind the curve, as there was no requirement at all for promotion to Capt, and a minimal requirement of 1 year for promotion to Maj.

- A Spaatz cadet that joined the dark side could become a 21 year-old Capt, a 24 year-old Maj, and a 27 year-old Lt Col. They now start at 1st Lt and promote thru the other ranks at the ages of 22/23, 26/27, and 31/32.  Under the new system, those ages become 21, 25, and 30. Those numbers may not seem much better different on the surface, but they represent more years in "grown-up" CAP and a corresponding increase in their personal growth and maturation outside of CAP.

Fixing these issues is a good thing, and I frankly believe that this PD level reassignment should have happened a long ago.  Sure, NHQ could have done a better job of mitigating the effects on current members, but the new command staff may address this once they take office.

FWIW, this is coming from a guy that has basically seen Lt Col go from attainable to not very likely due to personal constraints, so I do share in everyone's pain.

[Ed Bos]

- A Spaatz cadet that joined the dark side could become a 21 year-old Capt, a 24 year-old Maj, and a 27 year-old Lt Col. They now start at 1st Lt and promote thru the other ranks at the ages of 22/23, 26/27, and 31/32.  Those numbers may not seem much better on the surface, but they represent more years in "grown-up" CAP and a corresponding increase in their personal growth and maturation outside of CAP.

I agree with the point you made overall, but I'm confused about Spaatz Cadets starting at 1st Lt. Para 3-6 & Figure 4 say they're still promotable to Capt, or did I miss something?

[LSThiker]

They could institute a TIS/TIG concept to stop those 27 year old Lt Cols  . But no, always thought it bad to have 27 year olds walking around with Lt Col. Just never seemed right

[NC Hokie]

- A Spaatz cadet that joined the dark side could become a 21 year-old Capt, a 24 year-old Maj, and a 27 year-old Lt Col. They now start at 1st Lt and promote thru the other ranks at the ages of 22/23, 26/27, and 31/32.  Those numbers may not seem much better on the surface, but they represent more years in "grown-up" CAP and a corresponding increase in their personal growth and maturation outside of CAP.

I agree with the point you made overall, but I'm confused about Spaatz Cadets starting at 1st Lt. Para 3-6 & Figure 4 say they're still promotable to Capt, or did I miss something?

I based that on the professional development credit former cadets get per CAPR 50-17, which only gives Level II to Spaatz cadets.  I thought that was the reason they got Capt previously.  Looks like I was wrong.

[Ed Bos]

- A Spaatz cadet that joined the dark side could become a 21 year-old Capt, a 24 year-old Maj, and a 27 year-old Lt Col. They now start at 1st Lt and promote thru the other ranks at the ages of 22/23, 26/27, and 31/32.  Those numbers may not seem much better on the surface, but they represent more years in "grown-up" CAP and a corresponding increase in their personal growth and maturation outside of CAP.

I agree with the point you made overall, but I'm confused about Spaatz Cadets starting at 1st Lt. Para 3-6 & Figure 4 say they're still promotable to Capt, or did I miss something?

I based that on the professional development credit former cadets get per CAPR 50-17, which only gives Level II to Spaatz cadets.  I thought that was the reason they got Capt previously.  Looks like I was wrong.

Roger, thanks.

[AirAux]

Wait, What??  N C Hokie, you just took a shot at our Spaatz cadets?  Those cadets are the sharpest in the nation and know the cadet program inside and out and if their commanders have been abiding by the rules and requiring SDA's, they probably have a better grasp on the senior side than most 35 year old senior Captains.  Further, keeping them in the Corps is something we cherish.  Think what great National Commanders they could possible turn out to be.  I can't believe you would step so low.  Ouch!!!!

[FW]

Most members who care about this are already figuring out what it will take them to get promoted. 

It may take more time to make it to LT Col, however, I think it gives a member more time to deal with getting more experience in CAP, it's members, and its missions; all good things IMHO. 

Getting promoted is no longer an issue for me, however enjoying CAP is.  That means keeping mission current, and helping cadets get their Spaatz (so they can become CAPT's when they "go dark"...

[SARDOC]

Guess I'm going to be a Captain for awhile as RSC is not in the cards in the next few years for me.

That said, I don't necessarily disagree with any of the changes, I'm just glad I got captain done.

Why wait for RSC? Sure it's a great course, but if you can't get to it for a few years, look at SOS as an alternative.

I don't have a bachelor's degree.

Doh. Keep forgetting that they are actually enforcing that rule now. I think I was one of the last to finish ACSC without it.

Does this mean that without a Bachelor's degree, you're effectively locked at Major / Level IV now?

Or you live relatively close to Maxwell AFB or don't mind using Vacation and financially sound enough to travel there.

"MFL" = Major For Life

[SARDOC]

Does this mean that without a Bachelor's degree, you're effectively locked at Major / Level IV now?

No.  The "intended" way to promote is via RSC.  The correspondence schools are / were a "nice to have"
that few members completed regardless of the academic requirements.

If being a major is important enough, members will have to make choices as to where to spend their CAP
time.  Perhaps one year going to RSC and forgoing NESA or a flight academy.

National also needs to ramp up the RSC's and offer more of them so they aren't such a "quest".

But Yes, he'll be locked at Major unless he goes to National Staff College, not Region Staff College.  Now, that Level 5 is required for Lieutenant Colonel.

[NC Hokie]

Wait, What??  N C Hokie, you just took a shot at our Spaatz cadets?  Those cadets are the sharpest in the nation and know the cadet program inside and out and if their commanders have been abiding by the rules and requiring SDA's, they probably have a better grasp on the senior side than most 35 year old senior Captains.  Further, keeping them in the Corps is something we cherish.  Think what great National Commanders they could possible turn out to be.  I can't believe you would step so low.  Ouch!!!!

I took no more shot at Spaatz alumni than NHQ took at the rest of the senior member population, and I seriously question your assertion that any cadet can "have a better grasp on the senior side than most 35 year old senior Captains."  Most of those Captains have years of experience in a program that even the most most high speed cadet can only read about.

Finishing the cadet program does not make one an expert on all things CAP.  This attitude is EXACTLY why I think it's a good thing for Spaatz alumni to have a few more years in the senior program before they can pin on silver oak leaves.

[vento]

As of right now, CyBorg is no longer the ONLY Captain in perpetuity. There will be a LOT of folks in the same boat for different reasons. Becoming a field grade officer is now expensive both in terms of time and money (classroom and specialty track requirements). I wonder why should I even bother with PD anymore. Life is not fair, and HQ just made it a little worse. On top of that the new reg makes me feel even more like a second class citizen when compared to a nurse or "Other professionals" who join. Bravo Sierra of epic proportions.

[Eclipse]

Wait, What??  N C Hokie, you just took a shot at our Spaatz cadets?  Those cadets are the sharpest in the nation and know the cadet program inside and out and if their commanders have been abiding by the rules and requiring SDA's, they probably have a better grasp on the senior side than most 35 year old senior Captains.  Further, keeping them in the Corps is something we cherish.  Think what great National Commanders they could possible turn out to be.  I can't believe you would step so low.  Ouch!!!!

Suffice to say, that must be your personal experience, one not shared by all.

Yes, Spaatz Cadets are the top tier of the cadets, but few are prepared for leading in the senior side, nor have a clue
about what running a CAP unit entails, and only a small percentage have any idea how to lead adult volunteers, further,
many never move out of being cadets.

Does the average Spaatz cadet have a better grasp on the cadet program then the average lifer pilot Captain? Yes.
Beyond that, all bets are off.

[Eclipse]

One thing that has been asked in the last few days, by active members downstream,
is "If I know I will never be able to get to RSC, why bother with PD at all?"

The term is "unintended consequences".

[Ed Bos]

One thing that has been asked in the last few days, by active members downstream,
is "If I know I will never be able to get to RSC, why bother with PD at all?"

The term is "unintended consequences".

What was your reply?