Minor in possession of alcohol

[123Marine]

I'm a CAP cadet of almost 4 years.

Just the other night i was "arrested" (not sure if it was an actual arrest) but i was put into a police car etc for having a beer on the street.

I have never had any contact with the law like this and i would like to think of it as a lapse in judgement  . Im 16 btw.

Will CAP hear about this? Will it warrant a termination?

Thanks

[Extremepredjudice]

Look at teen court

They probably heard about it now, you sorta listed your unit.


See http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203092704.pdf

[123Marine]

Look at teen court

They probably heard about it now, you sorta listed your unit.


See http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203092704.pdf

That isnt my real unit, I'm not THAT stupid

[EMT-83]

Had you been arrested, it would be painfully clear.

Sounds like you caught a break, and learned a valuable lesson.

[PHall]

Look at teen court

They probably heard about it now, you sorta listed your unit.


See http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203092704.pdf

That isnt my real unit, I'm not THAT stupid

You're still posting here....

Your unit will probably not know unless you or your parents tell them. And that is up to you and your parents.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Own up to it. Right away, own up to it. Show that you have the mature attitude of an actual adult and don't beat around the bush. Whenever they find out about it they will know that you had time to tell them and not telling them just shows immaturity, and cowardice. I would be willing to bet that they will be more accepting if you come out with it up front.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Not necessarily that they will sweep it under the rug or anything but it will likely make things better. Lying makes things worse.

[123Marine]

Not necessarily that they will sweep it under the rug or anything but it will likely make things better. Lying makes things worse.

I most likely wont let them know about it, but if it does come up somehow i surely wont lie about it. This is something i would like to keep below their radar

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Not necessarily that they will sweep it under the rug or anything but it will likely make things better. Lying makes things worse.

I most likely wont let them know about it, but if it does come up somehow i surely wont lie about it. This is something i would like to keep below their radar

That is your decision, all that anyone can do here is offer advice and that is all I am doing. You will make your own decision. But my personal experience is lying is bad, and hiding something bad is the same as lying in most peoples eyes.

[Ned]

As it happens, I have a passing familiarity with both California law and CAP policies and procedures.

And the answer to your question is: "Maybe, it depends."

Because it depends on a lot of things.

First, it is early in the process.  It sounds like you got a ticket for a misdemeanor violation.  You are still presumed to be innocent and have not been convicted of anything.  What happens next in the criminal justice system depends on whether you are over or under 18. 

If you are under 18, by law in California, this will be handled in Juvenile Court where the proceedings are confidential.  What actually happens to you will depend on things like your age, your criminal history (if any), and things like grades in school, etc.  Usually juveniles in this situation just have to go to a class and maybe do some volunteer work or pay a small fine.  Unless this is your fourth or fifth offense, nobody goes into custody for this type of offense.  You will be entitled to a lawyer (usually free), and the burden is on the prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were unlawfully in possession of alcohol.  It bears repeating that proceedings in juvenile court in California are confidential and there is no way CAP can officially verify what did or did not happen. (Unless you tell them, which might be the smart thing to do for several reasons.)

If you are 18 or older, then the citation will be handled in regular adult court.  Again, you are presumed innocent, entitled to a lawyer, etc.  By law, the maximum punishment for a first offense in adult court is a fine not exceeding $250 and between 24 and 32 hours of volunteer work.  As a practical matter, most first offenders are diverted.  In my county, we normally dismiss the case if the accused simply attends an eight-hour Minor in Possession class.  (Kinda like traffic school for the 18-20 set.)  No fuss, no bother.

On the CAP side of the house, we do spend a fair amount of time trying to discourage cadets from making the mistake you are accused of and drinking before they are 21.  That is why we spend so much time on DDR programs and classes. 

Causes for cadet membership termination are listed in CAPR 35-3.  A conviction (or pattern of arrests) for an offense that would disqualify someone for membership (these are listed in CAPR 39-2) can be cause for termination.  But it does not appear that a single conviction for the fairly minor offense you have described is the kind of thing they are talking about in the 39-2.

But ultimately, discipline and termination are things within the discretion of your commander.  She or he has a great deal of flexibility when it comes to this kind of situation.

My gentle recommendation is to let your squadron commander know what has happened up to this point, and keep them informed about the status of the case.  Usually your court date in either juvenile or adult court will be about 3-4 weeks after receiving the citation.  Once you have been to court you should have a much better idea about what is going on.

This is also a golden opportunity for some learing and growing.  Every one of us has done stupid things when we were your age.  The key is what you take from the situation.  Just like the cadet program, Life expects you to make mistakes and learn from them.  If you don't recognize the mistake - or fail to learn - you will probably make bigger and more spectacular mistakes in the future.  Some of those might have permanent consequences like injury or death.

So take a deep breath, talk with your folks or other trusted adult, and sooner than later sit down and talk with your squadron commander.


Feel free to PM me if I can be of any further assistance.

Ned Lee
(Former CAP legal officer.)

[123Marine]

As it happens, I have a passing familiarity with both California law and CAP policies and procedures.

And the answer to your question is: "Maybe, it depends."

Because it depends on a lot of things.

First, it is early in the process.  It sounds like you got a ticket for a misdemeanor violation.  You are still presumed to be innocent and have not been convicted of anything.  What happens next in the criminal justice system depends on whether you are over or under 18. 

If you are under 18, by law in California, this will be handled in Juvenile Court where the proceedings are confidential.  What actually happens to you will depend on things like your age, your criminal history (if any), and things like grades in school, etc.  Usually juveniles in this situation just have to go to a class and maybe do some volunteer work or pay a small fine.  Unless this is your fourth or fifth offense, nobody goes into custody for this type of offense.  You will be entitled to a lawyer (usually free), and the burden is on the prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were unlawfully in possession of alcohol.  It bears repeating that proceedings in juvenile court in California are confidential and there is no way CAP can officially verify what did or did not happen. (Unless you tell them, which might be the smart thing to do for several reasons.)

If you are 18 or older, then the citation will be handled in regular adult court.  Again, you are presumed innocent, entitled to a lawyer, etc.  By law, the maximum punishment for a first offense in adult court is a fine not exceeding $250 and between 24 and 32 hours of volunteer work.  As a practical matter, most first offenders are diverted.  In my county, we normally dismiss the case if the accused simply attends an eight-hour Minor in Possession class.  (Kinda like traffic school for the 18-20 set.)  No fuss, no bother.

On the CAP side of the house, we do spend a fair amount of time trying to discourage cadets from making the mistake you are accused of and drinking before they are 21.  That is why we spend so much time on DDR programs and classes. 

Causes for cadet membership termination are listed in CAPR 35-3.  A conviction (or pattern of arrests) for an offense that would disqualify someone for membership (these are listed in CAPR 39-2) can be cause for termination.  But it does not appear that a single conviction for the fairly minor offense you have described is the kind of thing they are talking about in the 39-2.

But ultimately, discipline and termination are things within the discretion of your commander.  She or he has a great deal of flexibility when it comes to this kind of situation.

My gentle recommendation is to let your squadron commander know what has happened up to this point, and keep them informed about the status of the case.  Usually your court date in either juvenile or adult court will be about 3-4 weeks after receiving the citation.  Once you have been to court you should have a much better idea about what is going on.

This is also a golden opportunity for some learing and growing.  Every one of us has done stupid things when we were your age.  The key is what you take from the situation.  Just like the cadet program, Life expects you to make mistakes and learn from them.  If you don't recognize the mistake - or fail to learn - you will probably make bigger and more spectacular mistakes in the future.  Some of those might have permanent consequences like injury or death.

So take a deep breath, talk with your folks or other trusted adult, and sooner than later sit down and talk with your squadron commander.


Feel free to PM me if I can be of any further assistance.

Ned Lee
(Former CAP legal officer.)

Thanks for the reply.

I am not from California (didnt feel the need to put in my actual unit).
My location has similar laws regarding confidentiality of juvenile cases. The officer claimed what happened was about equal to a speeding ticket. I personally would like to pretend this never happened and leave it behind me being that I am not known for this sort of thing. I dont exactly feel I should tell CAP being that it is not a very large part of my life compared to other cadets; I even recently thought about leaving. Anyway, thanks for the advice and i'll see how it plays out.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cadet, my own personal position is that you should own up and be honest with your commander.

Doing so just might raise your standing in his/her sight.

Also, you won't have to concern yourself with the fear that "someone will find out."  I don't like the "having to look over my shoulder" feeling.

[davidsinn]

If you were my cadet and owned up; you would get a letter of reprimand in your file and a long discussion with the senior leadership, possibly loss of position depending on how the discussion went.

If you didn't own up and I found out about it after the fact; I would drop a 2b on the boss's desk...

[abdsp51]

Sounds like a simple detention, but then again you are not giving many details.  Hiding it as others have said can only cause grief in the long run.   

[Eclipse]

I dont exactly feel I should tell CAP being that it is not a very large part of my life compared to other cadets

Mistakes are mistakes, that's what youth is about, however, other cadets do, or don't, shouldn't be relevant in this, other then serving as an example to you.  Hopefully it will be another 5+ years before you decide to possess or use alcohol again.

[ßτε]

I am not from California (didnt feel the need to put in my actual unit).

It's one thing to not disclose what unit you are in. It is another to falsely say you are from a unit that you are not in, even if that unit doesn't actually exist. May I suggest you remove any reference to unit from your profile.

[cap235629]

If you didn't own up and I found out about it after the fact; I would drop a 2b on the boss's desk...

Based upon what? Even if convicted it is not a felony offense or a pattern of offenses.  Your 2b would not be upheld.

[Eclipse]

2-5. Policy on Controlled Substances.
a. Drug-Free Cadet Ethic. Regardless of age, cadets will not possess or consume tobacco products, alcoholic beverages, or illegal drugs in any form while participating in a CAP activity.

The above is consider "misconduct" and is a justifiable reason for termination.

[Ned]

2-5. Policy on Controlled Substances.
a. Drug-Free Cadet Ethic. Regardless of age, cadets will not possess or consume tobacco products, alcoholic beverages, or illegal drugs in any form while participating in a CAP activity.

The above is consider "misconduct" and is a justifiable reason for termination.

Of course, but that requires a "new fact": that the OP was "participating in a CAP activity" at the time of the alleged misconduct.

Otherwise, this does not seem very helpful one way or another.

[Eclipse]

Point taken about this not being a CAP activity, but considering the USAF / CAP DDR emphasis, and this is a 16-year old
insinuating his conduct isn't "so bad compared to others", I'd say termination is certainly on the table.

That's not the route I would necessarily take for a (presumed) first offense, but it's an option to the commander.