Anyone else taking SOS right now?

[Major Carrales]

Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Well, the SLS should be based on experience and is set up where CAP members get an overview of all of CAP given by people who have been in that section of CAP.  That is why it is called Squadron Leadership School.  CLC is called a "Corporate Learning Course," but deals with how CAP is run at higher levels.

You could, of course, join and remain a 1st Lt and feed off of establishing a great local program fulfilling the Missions of CAP at a local level in the areas you desire.  Then become of of the instructors at an SLS or CLC. 

Then you could keep your hands out of the CAP politics "mousetrap;" however, your posts point out that you must thrive on CAP Politics since you post here and are not a current member.  I find it hard that you could "stay out of it" as a member.

My advice would be to find a local unit and spend another 9 years making it the best consarn one you can...then move up to high office.  By then the Majors and Colonels you dislike will be gone...politics has a high attrition rate...and you can address all the issues and POLITICS you want.

[Eagle400]

Thanks, but no thanks.  Despite my postings, I hate politics.  Politics/corruption is one of the big reasons why I post in the manner I do.  Because of what I've seen, I can't see myself going higher than Lt Col and certainly no higher than the squadron level.  The politics in this organization is so hyperactive that going above the squadron level is something you do at your own risk. 

By the way, I hope it was my postings that led you to believe that I was interested in CAP politics, and not the fact that I post while being a former member. 

[O-Rex]

Politics is simply two or more individuals or entities competing for limited resources: it's just an inescapable part of group dynamics.

Politics is just as prevalent in the Military: just go to the Pentagon and watch the show......

Quality leadership in CAP, like any other orgainzation ebbs & flows: when there is a void in competent, effective leadership, we gambe that eventually the pendulum will swing the other way, and we prepare for it.

You can either participate, and make a difference, even if ever-so-slight, even if it's for one individual, or you can remain on the sidelines.

The fact that you are posting on this forum indicates interest.

Take the plunge: what do you have to lose?

[arajca]

Thanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.  Hopefully, that will change.   

Should you decide to join CAP and progress above 1st Lt, you will have to take SLS. There is no AF PME waiver for SLS or CLC. AFIADL 13 can be waived through a variety of means. RSC can be waived by taking SOS or higher (or other service  equivelent) PME. NSC can be waived by taking ACSC or higher (or other...) PME. The NCO academies fit in here as well, but I'm not sure just where.

[Major Carrales]

Politics is simply two or more individuals or entities competing for limited resources: it's just an inescapable part of group dynamics.

So, what resources are CAP OFFICERS competing for with the "US CAP" issue?

CAP Politics comes in several forms:

1) Petty Ambitions: Wanted to be a high ranking "CAP Offical," for prestigue.  To have Power (a laughable concept in CAP when you think of it)
2) Hording Aircraft and other resources:flight clubs that think that a CAP aircraft is especially "their baby," and manuever to continue to make that so.
3) Agendism and Bias: someone or group of someones have an agenda or bias , often realted to the two above causes.
4) Cantankerous curudgeonism: folks that just like to stir up trouble for the sake of teh argument

Don't seem to follow the Core Values of CAP now, do they?

[dwb]

Re: SLS and CLC...

First of all, the SLS curriculum is being overhauled, and CLC is next.  If you wait a few years, the student materials and slide presentations will be better for those courses.

Also, if your Wing doesn't run good SLS and CLC courses, just go somewhere that does.  The quality of the training depends largely on the instructors, and as we all know, some instructors are better than others.

[Fifinella]

Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Here's what SLS *should* cover: http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/programs/programs_for_adults/professional_development/resident_courses/squadron_leadership_school.cfm

And here's what CLC *should* cover: http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/programs/programs_for_adults/professional_development/resident_courses/corporate_learning_course.cfm

There are links on both pages to scheduled classes across the nation.  If your wing doesn't meet your standards, go to the courses elsewhere.  Keep in mind, "wise men learn more from fools than fools do from the wise".  There are nuggets to be gleaned from even the worst presentations.

Thanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.

Not true.  ANY CAP officer may take SOS, ACSC, and AWC by correspondence, once reaching the appropriate rank in CAP.  SOS done in this manner will satisfy the requirement for RSC.

In the new format, SLS and CLC will only require 1 day in residence.  That's not much to endure.  (Not that 2 days was much of an imposition either.)

[ColonelJack]

Not true.  ANY CAP officer may take SOS, ACSC, and AWC by correspondence, once reaching the appropriate rank in CAP.  SOS done in this manner will satisfy the requirement for RSC.

And unless they've changed it since I retired, ACSC will satisfy the requirements for NSC.  That's how I got my GRW award.

Jack

[acarlson]

Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Thanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.  Hopefully, that will change.   

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments and
which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—
that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

—Herbert Spencer

[SarDragon]

Darn!  SLS and CLC are the ones I would least like to attend.  Too much stuff about the corporation and sitting through more BTDT stories than briefings on what's really important. 

Well, if you were a real member and kept current, you would know that there are new curricula for SLS and CLC that are much better (INHO) than the previous ones. I'll be teaching at an SLS this weekend, and am looking forward to it.

For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

[acarlson]

Re: SLS and CLC...
First of all, the SLS curriculum is being overhauled, and CLC is next.  If you wait a few years, the student materials and slide presentations will be better for those courses.

both SLS and CLC have already been revamped... and I've used the new PD material in June... it works quite well.
see:    http://www.cap.gov/sls     and       http://www.cap.gov/clc

Re: SLS and CLC...

Also, if your Wing doesn't run good SLS and CLC courses, just go somewhere that does.  The quality of the training depends largely on the instructors, and as we all know, some instructors are better than others.

OR...  become a PDO yourself and make it happen!

[Fifinella]

For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

Respectfully, Sir, the new format is self-study prior to attendance, and only 1 day in residence.

"Future plans call for both the SLS and CLC to include an e-Learning component prior to the resident course which will allow students to complete portions of the courses online and should reduce the required resident attendance from two days to one day." - From the Knowledgebase, "Can a SLS or CLC be a one-day event?"

Don't know the reason for the change, but I think FLWG has already held an SLS using this new format.

[O-Rex]

Politics is simply two or more individuals or entities competing for limited resources: it's just an inescapable part of group dynamics.

So, what resources are CAP OFFICERS competing for with the "US CAP" issue?

CAP Politics comes in several forms:

1) Petty Ambitions: Wanted to be a high ranking "CAP Offical," for prestigue.  To have Power (a laughable concept in CAP when you think of it)
2) Hording Aircraft and other resources:flight clubs that think that a CAP aircraft is especially "their baby," and manuever to continue to make that so.
3) Agendism and Bias: someone or group of someones have an agenda or bias , often realted to the two above causes.
4) Cantankerous curudgeonism: folks that just like to stir up trouble for the sake of teh argument

Don't seem to follow the Core Values of CAP now, do they?

Ely,

Like you and many of our true-believing brethren, I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing the other way..........

[acarlson]

For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

Respectfully, Sir, the new format is self-study prior to attendance, and only 1 day in residence.

"Future plans call for both the SLS and CLC to include an e-Learning component prior to the resident course which will allow students to complete portions of the courses online and should reduce the required resident attendance from two days to one day." - From the Knowledgebase, "Can a SLS or CLC be a one-day event?"

Don't know the reason for the change, but I think FLWG has already held an SLS using this new format.

May I offer this  :angel: ... to Capt. LaValley and SM Bowles... 
I believe the CAP Knowledgebase referred to is Answer # 1408 (last updated 03/01/2007) found at:

KBase Linky

if we can agree that we may be talking about two, separate course formats for SLS/CLC, then we can continue discussions whereby
IN ADDITION TO any said "Future plans" for a 1-day pre-read, e-Learning format...
is the current, new, revamped 2-day, in class format, with totally new
(and, IMHO, better ) materials for SLS and CLC

These current, new, updated formats are posted on CAP NHQ and available now...
I've used the new PD material in our June 2007 Wing SLS... (and will again use in our Nov '07 Group SLS)
see:  http://www.cap.gov/sls     and      http://www.cap.gov/clc


I would be interested to see the Director's guide for this 1 day e-learning SLS format, that you say FL has already used,
I like the idea of pre-reading some of the material, as it helps the student learn and retain the concepts
(and yes, would shorten in-class time).


further, (for 12211985) the value of the SLS introduces the Level 2 Officer to how the Squadron works.
similarly,  the value of the CLC is threefold:
1) introduces the Level 3 Officer to how the Wing works, and
2) how the Wing / Squadron relationship in the CAP organizational heirarchy works.
AND (most importantly for the W/S relationship)... 3) introduces you to your Wing-staff (as CLC instructors),

KBase Linky breaking the board - MIKE

[SarDragon]

For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

Respectfully, Sir, the new format is self-study prior to attendance, and only 1 day in residence.

"Future plans call for both the SLS and CLC to include an e-Learning component prior to the resident course which will allow students to complete portions of the courses online and should reduce the required resident attendance from two days to one day." - From the Knowledgebase, "Can a SLS or CLC be a one-day event?"

Don't know the reason for the change, but I think FLWG has already held an SLS using this new format.

OK, I just looked at your links, and that's the same material I'm using. Right above the download links is a statement in a yellow box: "This is not currently an e-learning course. This material (curriculum) is provided to help you plan your events." In its current form, it is not teachable in one day.

BTW, for Ms. Carlson, I am a senior member, not a SMWOG. I choose not to display my rank, hence the spelled out words, and not just SM.

[acarlson]

BTW, for Ms. Carlson, I am a senior member, not a SMWOG. I choose not to display my rank, hence the spelled out words, and not just SM.

Why thank you for that clarification Mr. Boyle...  my humblest apologies if I insulted either you or your unidentified grade.

[James Shaw]

Finally finished the last test for the SOS course. This was the largest of the tests. 80 questions. That makes a total of about 250 for the whole thing. I think I would just rather spend a week in NSC than do the ACSC. Not at this point!

[ColonelJack]

I think I would just rather spend a week in NSC than do the ACSC. Not at this point!

I could understand that, but ... my ACSC credits went toward finishing my Specialist's degree in Education, so it helped in my civilian career too!  I doubt NSC courses would do that ... would they?

Jack

[spaatzmom]

Should you decide to join CAP and progress above 1st Lt, you will have to take SLS. There is no AF PME waiver for SLS or CLC. AFIADL 13 can be waived through a variety of means. RSC can be waived by taking SOS or higher (or other service  equivelent) PME. NSC can be waived by taking ACSC or higher (or other...) PME. The NCO academies fit in here as well, but I'm not sure just where.

Can you please expound on the various ways to waive the ECI-13 with citation.  Thank you.

[DeputyDog]

Can you please expound on the various ways to waive the ECI-13 with citation.  Thank you.

Here you go.

4-5. CAP Senior Officer Course (CAPSOC) (AFIADL Course 00013).
The CAPSOC provides study in areas essential to becoming an effective leader in CAP, e.g., communications, leadership, and management. Since CAP deems this course necessary for career development, any CAP senior member who has completed Level I may apply. CAP members who have completed a Professional Military Education (PME) school equivalent to the CAPSOC may use this equivalent as a substitute (see Attachment 2).

Equivalent to CAP Senior Officer Course
Code Z Any US Armed Forces NCO Academy (Pay Grades E-5 - E-6) or equivalent, resident or correspondence

Equivalent to CAP Senior Officer Course/Region Staff College
Code P Any US Armed Forces Senior NCO Academy (Pay Grades E-7 - E-9), resident or correspondence

Code W USAF Squadron Officer School, USA Basic/Advance Officer Courses or USN, USMC, USCG equivalent, resident or correspondence

Code V All Service Academies, ROTC, OCS, or OTS

Code X Any US Armed Forces Command and Staff College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Code T Any US Armed Forces War College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Equivalent to National Staff College
Code P Any US Armed Forces Senior NCO Academy (Pay Grades E-7 - E-9), resident or correspondence

Code X Any US Armed Forces Command and Staff College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Code T Any US Armed Forces War College, resident, seminar, or correspondence