Quality of New CAP Membership Card

[Walkman]

I don't see the correlation between being medically DQ'd from serving and the design of the membership card.  In every instance the reasoning I come up with is something not very nice, so I won't share it.

I totally get it. I wasn't able to serve in the RM either. The fact that Civil Air Patrol has made a way for me to serve, albiet in a different, limited way, is something I cherish. Like ETC, I'm proud that the cards says "United States Air Force Auxiliary" and has a photo of me in uniform. It's another bit of symbolism for me that I'm able to serve my country. Every time I wear my uniform, or show someone my ID card, I stand a little taller.

[jimmydeanno]

I'm medically DQ'd as well, and I have an extreme pride in my service to CAP.  However, the only thing that I can come up with about a desire to have our ID cards look like CACs is a hope that there will be some confusion as to what that person's status really is.  Maybe I'm being pessimistic. 

[NCRblues]

I served and had a CAC card...hardly ever used it, other than log into my computer and have the rent-a-policeman at the gate stare at it for 2.5 seconds and ask me how my day was...

I want our ID cards to look NOTHING like a CAC card. I want them to look JUST like OUR ID cards...but a little thicker, so I wont worry about snapping it in half if my wallet bends to much...

[DBlair]

As a point of clarification, are the 'new' photo ID cards being mentioned any different from those of around a year (+/-) ago-- or are these the cards being discussed? I wasn't sure if there has been an additional update since the last one I received.

From some of the comments, I'm almost cringing at the thought that it seems to be a plastic-coated piece of paper (reminds me of the old blue/white cards) and not something appearing like a legitimate ID.

Having something that looks legitimate and not like a self-created 'ID' or library card (yielding some curious/confused looks at the gate on base) is what prompted me to get the Photo ID version-- which I believe is required now anyway.

So... will my new photo ID card from around a year ago be any different from my next card?

[NCRblues]

As a point of clarification, are the 'new' photo ID cards being mentioned any different from those of around a year (+/-) ago-- or are these the cards being discussed? I wasn't sure if there has been an additional update since the last one I received.

From some of the comments, I'm almost cringing at the thought that it seems to be a plastic-coated piece of paper (reminds me of the old blue/white cards) and not something appearing like a legitimate ID.

Having something that looks legitimate and not like a self-created 'ID' or library card (yielding some curious/confused looks at the gate on base) is what prompted me to get the Photo ID version-- which I believe is required now anyway.

So... will my new photo ID card from around a year ago be any different from my next card?

Comparing my old ones to this new one, yes it will be different, in that it will be very thin. If I wanted to, I could snap it in half without really any force at all. Like my post above, I really do worry about it breaking or bending in half sometimes. I don't understand what prompted CAP to go to a thinner and flimsier ID card, but we did.

As for looks of the card, they are the same, but it does feel like a home made ID card now.

[SarDragon]

You folks speak of snapping as card in half. I have never seem one brittle enough to actually break into two pieces. I have noticed a difference in thickness, and a corresponding difference in flexibility, but that doesn't seem to be a big deal. The old plastic cards were similarly flexible, and not prone to 'breakage' in that manner.

[a2capt]

We don't have to pre-heat our engine blocks... or worry about keys breaking off in doors.

[SarDragon]

Agreed. But the card is laminated, with what appears to be two different types of plastic. FWIW, I used to use the old phone number cards that came with the renewal notice as an ice scraper on cold mornings, and never had any problems with it.

I think y'all are just pissin' and moanin' just to be pissin' and moanin'.

[majdomke]

I don't see why we can't just get military ID cards from the AF. They have them for dependents and civilian contractors on base already. Are we less trustworthy then civilian contractors who man the Burger King on base? Having an "official" military ID card would certainly lend to our credibility and also help base access issues. They are currently called the "Common Access Card".

The Common Access Card (CAC) is a United States Department of Defense (DoD) smart card issued as standard identification for active-duty military personnel, reserve personnel, civilian employees, other non-DoD government employees, state employees of the National Guard, and eligible contractor personnel.

Currently they are issued to:
Active-duty armed forces
Reservists
National Guard members
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
United States Public Health Service
Emergency-Essential Employees
Contingency Contractor Employees
Deployed Overseas Civilians
Non-Combatant Personnel
DoD/Uniformed Service Civilians residing on military installation in CONUS, Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico, or Guam
DoD/Uniformed Service Civilians or Contracted Civilian residing in a foreign country for at least 365 days
Presidential Appointees approved by the United States Senate
DoD Civilian employees, and United States Military veterans with a Veterans Affairs Disability rating of 100% P&T
Eligible Contractor Employees
Non-DoD/other government and state employees of the National Guard

[lordmonar]

a) CAC are more expensive.
b) Dependant and retiree ID cards are NOT CAC's...they are the same old cards they have been using for 10-15 years now.
c) A CAC will not give us credibility....doing our job well and following the regulations will.
d) There is NOTHING wrong with the cards we got now.

[Eclipse]

d) There is NOTHING wrong with the cards we got now.

I have to agree - by a long shot, the vast majority of the membership never interact with the military, or ever enter a military facility or base, certainly not on a regular enough basis that they need a CAC.  Those who do are able to make things work as things are today (albeit with the occasional
less than smooth process).  A good working relationship with the SD helps here.

Some of the branches are moving to a new system next year which will likely issue localized credentials to those who need them, which would certainly not be everyone in a respective wing.

[majdomke]

a) CAC are more expensive.
b) Dependant and retiree ID cards are NOT CAC's...they are the same old cards they have been using for 10-15 years now.
c) A CAC will not give us credibility....doing our job well and following the regulations will.
d) There is NOTHING wrong with the cards we got now.

And that's your opinion but certainly doesn't invalidate my suggestion that we have a centralized access card recognized by DoD. Since I access numerous bases in CA throughout the year, I was stating my opinion. Each base is different and depending on who is at the gate, you may not get on. For members who already access the base each week for regular squadron meetings, it may be more simplified than those of us who come from non-base squadrons.

Doing our job well and following regulations means nothing to a gate security officer. All they care about is your ID and purpose. As a former USAF SP who worked gate I can testify to this effect. If I'm looking for CAC or military ID cards, I don't care too much about how they follow regulations. The base commander would have final determination on who can gain access to the base and when/where they can go. Just as it is now, someone with CIV, etc on their ID won't be allowed access to secure areas unless they have specific access to that area. The same would apply to us. We try to use our ID to get into the commissary, MWR or other areas with CIV, we most likely won't get in.

FWIW - Back in the 80's I just showed my CAP ID and drivers license and POOF I got on without trouble. I even went so far as to get a DoD sticker on my car when I was a cadet to get on faster. It was pass & id's suggestion and made it even easier. The sticker I received was green for civilian btw and CAP had explicit permission to get them according to DoD regs.

[majdomke]

Some of the branches are moving to a new system next year which will likely issue localized credentials to those who need them, which would certainly not be everyone in a respective wing.

I like that a lot...

[lordmonar]

We do have a centralised access card recognised by the DoD.  If there is a specific problem with individual bases or individual guards who don't know about it.....getting a new more expensive card is not the answer.

Get with your wing and state SD and get the bases/cops educated.

The CONS to going to a CAC are that:

a) Number of people quiting each year....squadrons would have to exert much more effort to insure all those cards are accounted for.
b) The cards being too much like "real" base access credentials raises the very real possiblity that CAP could be used by possible advasaries for the simple access to the credentials.
c) COST, COST, COST...the cads themselves are expensive, the equipment to make them are expensive.
d) Time....getting the cards made would take much longer.
e) There is no need for more CAC style card.

[majdomke]

Perhaps an option where CAP members could apply for one much like I had to go to pass & id to get my sticker. This would allow those who do have business on base to get on easier where other just won't need it and not request them. I was thinking more along the lines for seniors anyhow who have a much better annual retention rate. Anything other than the library card POS we have now. The photo ID we offered previously that you paid for was much better quality and lended more towards acceptance as a genuine ID card. It had a hologram on the front and was thick like an ID would be expected to be. Again, all my opinion based on my experiences over the past several years with numerous bases in the CA wing.

[lordmonar]

Well, I'm at Nellis and we have zero problems getting on base.

I think a better option would be to just make sure all the bases you work with know what our cards look like....in stead of comming up with a new card and new proceedures to get one.

[Eclipse]

Even smaller than the number of members who need bases access is those that need carte blanche access across a wing.  Heck, my
wing only has two bases to start with, and I only have legit need for one. 

If you need it, it can be managed, and if you don't, you don't.  And we're, of course, not just talking USAF bases, which for some bizarre reason
tend to be less benevolent towards CAP access then other services.

As to the old card, a generic hologram that you can peel off isn't exactly a retina scan-level of security. 

I recently renewed my credentials and decals at the local base, it took me longer to park then to renew them.

[Eclipse]

I think a better option would be to just make sure all the bases you work with know what our cards look like....in stead of comming up with a new card and new proceedures to get one.

This is where the effort should be spent, and it should be local through the respective SD and wing staff, etc.  If the pizza dude and laundry guys can do their jobs, we should be able to.

[RADIOMAN015]

I don't see why we can't just get military ID cards from the AF. They have them for dependents and civilian contractors on base already. Are we less trustworthy then civilian contractors who man the Burger King on base? Having an "official" military ID card would certainly lend to our credibility and also help base access issues. They are currently called the "Common Access Card".

AF Instruction 10-2701, paragraph 1.3.5
CAP ID Card. CAP members carry an ID card identifying them as members of the organization. CAP ID cards must meet Air Force standards and are considered a uniform item subject to the same approval process as other parts of the CAP uniform. The CAP ID card must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces ID card that confusion will not occur. The CAP ID card will not allow access to government facilities or other agencies and is not a government identification card.

Each installation commander is responsible for determining the amount of
access, if any, which will be afforded to CAP personnel. However, the ID card will facilitate the identification of an individual as a member of the CAP.

Seriously, even CAP doesn't want the possibility of "Senior Members Gone Wild, on AF bases". :angel: so that' why the Installation Commander has the final say.   The regulation above specifically states the AF policy on ID cards differentiation.  I would guess this fixation on ID cards again falls into the "wanna be" class of members.   In our AFAUX role if we need to get on any AF military base, those "in the know" will get us in.  So a look alike ID card isn't of ANY importance.
RM   

     

[Spaceman3750]

I don't see why we can't just get military ID cards from the AF. They have them for dependents and civilian contractors on base already. Are we less trustworthy then civilian contractors who man the Burger King on base? Having an "official" military ID card would certainly lend to our credibility and also help base access issues. They are currently called the "Common Access Card".

AF Instruction 10-2701, paragraph 1.3.5
CAP ID Card. CAP members carry an ID card identifying them as members of the organization. CAP ID cards must meet Air Force standards and are considered a uniform item subject to the same approval process as other parts of the CAP uniform. The CAP ID card must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces ID card that confusion will not occur. The CAP ID card will not allow access to government facilities or other agencies and is not a government identification card.

Each installation commander is responsible for determining the amount of
access, if any, which will be afforded to CAP personnel. However, the ID card will facilitate the identification of an individual as a member of the CAP.

Seriously, even CAP doesn't want the possibility of "Senior Members Gone Wild, on AF bases". :angel: so that' why the Installation Commander has the final say.   The regulation above specifically states the AF policy on ID cards differentiation.  I would guess this fixation on ID cards again falls into the "wanna be" class of members.   In our AFAUX role if we need to get on any AF military base, those "in the know" will get us in.  So a look alike ID card isn't of ANY importance.
RM   

     

I don't know what schmucks you have in your squadron, but "12-year-olds gone wild on AF bases" is my bigger concern. I think cadets are great, but the young ones can do some pretty silly things (I know - I was one).