New CAP ID-Card policy

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

It eliminates someone having to type a CAPID that can easily be misheard and or mistyped.

As far as programs / apps, if you can type the ID to find someone in an existing app the scanner does that automatically.

If this helps you, great.

[SarDragon]

So if you have a cheap phone get an old bar code scanner on ebay for $10 or dig a Cue Cat out of the bottom of your sock drawer.

Are you sending our squadron the fully developed app with interface and the $10 for the scanner?

Otherwise we'll keep the <2 seconds it takes to hand write a CAP ID and use the $10 to buy other squadron supplies.

The basic idea for the barcode is to enable quick sign-in at meetings, missions, etc. We ave used the concept here for several years, almost since the first inception of the WMU. The programming was built into the first versions, but I don't know if it's still there. Scan the code, and all your info is on the screen, now. It's very handy on missions.

I don't really understand the Luddite attitude. If a unit wants to pursue the technology, have at it. If not, no loss.

[A.Member]

It eliminates someone having to type a CAPID that can easily be misheard and or mistyped.

As far as programs / apps, if you can type the ID to find someone in an existing app the scanner does that automatically.

If this helps you, great.

How so?  To what database will you connect?  There is no master database to be accessed unless you want to try and create and maintain that as well.  However, I'd suggest that approach would take no longer than 6 months for the DB to become very outdated.   Also, how would members that attend from other units be handled?    Point is, the best that can be done is to record the ID # only.   All other member info would still need to be collected manually.  So, what value does that really provide? 

I don't know how you guys run SAREX's, but more than just a CAP ID is collected at sign in.  When someone arrives at a SAREX they supply their own info, including  emergency contact, signature, etc.

I'm certainly not opposed to developing a useful solution using the barcodes provided it truly brings value - we have enough pseudo-solution, half-baked applications floating around already. 

A barcode reader solution potentially could save some time if developed and implemented correctly - ie. consistently.    To do so effectively requires a tie into a National records database.  Such a solution requires that level of support because it's simply not a task that can be done effectively at the unit level.   The question also must be answered as to how devices will be procured and at what cost?  To illustrate the point, if we go with the aforementioned $10 pricetag (very cheap) and say that each Wing has 5 squadrons (very understated, I don't know the actual number of active CAP squadrons but it's certainly much higher than that) we come up with ~$2,500 in hardware expense.   And what about maintenance/replacement when the device is lost or broken?

Now, if someone, say Eclipse, or some unit wants to build this model out for National, I'm sure they wouldn't mind and I'd certainly applaud the effort but it requires more than a 15 minute commitment.  Thus, the cost/benefit factor.   

So, who's willing to devote the time to forward on this project?

[SarDragon]

You appear to be ignoring, or have missed, the key item here - WMU. The database is almost real-time (-24 hrs or less), and the application is available online. There's nothing else that needs to be developed on order to make practical use of a bar code reader. We use it locally to track meeting attendance and whatever else the CC decides to do with it.

As I said above, if a unit wants to pursue the technology, have at it. If not, no loss. The barcode is available on the ID  and 101 cards. What you do with it is your choice. Nothing is being forced on anyone.

[Eclipse]

Excel reads barcodes of the box and a few macros makes it useful.

CAPWatch is available to all commanders at whatever echelon is appropriate, it contains 99% of what would be needed from
a "who are you" standpoint, and is flat text files.

Members are supposed to be handing in Form 60's when they walk in the door.

Exceptions are entered manually.

Not every unit needs this, but $10 is clearly within the budget of any unit if they do, likewise major activities and mission Logistics people.

None of this has to be rocket science unless you force it to be.

[A.Member]

You appear to be ignoring, or have missed, the key item here - WMU. The database is almost real-time (-24 hrs or less), and the application is available online. There's nothing else that needs to be developed on order to make practical use of a bar code reader. We use it locally to track meeting attendance and whatever else the CC decides to do with it.

As I said above, if a unit wants to pursue the technology, have at it. If not, no loss. The barcode is available on the ID  and 101 cards. What you do with it is your choice. Nothing is being forced on anyone.

I saw your comment about the WMU.  To be honest, I've never used it so I can't say for certain what it's capability is.  The fact that the maintainer of the site can't seem to work out his certificate issues may be a key reason why I've stayed away and speaks to one of my earlier points.

[A.Member]

None of this has to be rocket science unless you force it to be.

Agreed, it doesn't need to be rocket science but it does need to be documented, consistent, and should be accessible by every unit.

[Eclipse]

I saw your comment about the WMU.  To be honest, I've never used it so I can't say for certain what it's capability is.

Think MS access circa 1998. Since it isn't even accessible to a lot of wings, it isn't really an option.  At this point it is really just a client
for eServices.

The fact that the maintainer of the site can't seem to work out his certificate issues may be a key reason why I've stayed away and speaks to one of my earlier points.

That is fixed by installing the DOD root certificates.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Don't know if anybody posted this before, or not, but...

I talked to NHQ yesterday, and my questions on the new ID card came up, and I actually got immediate answers.  Whether the immediate answers were the right answers, we'll see, but according to the NHQ folks:

1.  The practice of issuing temporary ID cards pending the FBI check will end, or maybe already has ended.  A temporary printable membership confirmation will be available on line.

2.  From the time the membership shows up in e-services and a CAPID number is assigned, you will have about 2-3 weeks to upload a photo of the member.  The photo will then be on his CAPID card and 101 card.

3.  The CAPID card will not be issued until the FBI check is cleared.

Yesterday I went into my HQ and nailed a 4x4 foot piece of white painted wood to the wall to use as a photo background.  We will take pix of the new guys as soon as their CAPID number is assigned.  Writing the procedure this weekend.

What I can't explain is why wasn't this procedure sent out to the membership in the detail I just got by calling NHQ?

[arajca]

What I can't explain is why wasn't this procedure sent out to the membership in the detail I just got by calling NHQ?

Makes too much sense? Too easy? Logical idea? Too lazy? Too busy? Didn't think about it? No one told them to?

Darts, anyone?

[NIN]

I snagged a Metrologic laser scanner for my CAP squadron some years ago.

Each meeting night, they setup SIMS for the barcode entry, plug the USB scanner into the laptop, and they're off to the races. And its on the plastic stand, so all you do is pass your card under it.

Honestly, I've always wanted one of the slot-based barcode readers, but they're a lot of trouble and they're hard to find.

[RLM10_2_06]

To follow up on times this process is taking, I just got my CAP photo ID today. My membership was approved on 20 Oct., had my photo uploaded and approved online by 1 Nov. Taking a while, but it looks like they're getting somewhere, at least.

[JArvey]

3) I don't understand why cadet photos should not also be mandatory.
[/quote]
Ive heard that there is a legal issue with cadets having the photos.

[a2capt]

I suspect if it were a "legal" issue, they would not have it be optional for cadets. The legality is more that it's just not needed, so why burden the system with it. 

It gets the cards out quicker, the cadet functioning quicker as an ID card is required for participation.

Where as an adult is probably figuratively, capable of doing more for themselves, sooner.

Even though we all do mass-unit photo shoots, and help each other out anyway. As far as I'm concerned, the cadets can get photos uploaded, let 'em get a card that doesn't have a blank spot on it.

I'm just disappointed there's no charter # on the card anymore. But.. that makes the card more portable, so I understand why.  ... so when the cadet presents a test paper I can say "that number is on your ID card, too".

[JArvey]

I suspect if it were a "legal" issue, they would not have it be optional for cadets. The legality is more that it's just not needed, so why burden the system with it. 

It gets the cards out quicker, the cadet functioning quicker as an ID card is required for participation.

Where as an adult is probably figuratively, capable of doing more for themselves, sooner.

Even though we all do mass-unit photo shoots, and help each other out anyway. As far as I'm concerned, the cadets can get photos uploaded, let 'em get a card that doesn't have a blank spot on it.

I'm just disappointed there's no charter # on the card anymore. But.. that makes the card more portable, so I understand why.  ... so when the cadet presents a test paper I can say "that number is on your ID card, too".

I still think there needs to atleast be a unit charter number on the card.

[DakRadz]

I suspect if it were a "legal" issue, they would not have it be optional for cadets. The legality is more that it's just not needed, so why burden the system with it. 

It gets the cards out quicker, the cadet functioning quicker as an ID card is required for participation.

Where as an adult is probably figuratively, capable of doing more for themselves, sooner.

Even though we all do mass-unit photo shoots, and help each other out anyway. As far as I'm concerned, the cadets can get photos uploaded, let 'em get a card that doesn't have a blank spot on it.

I'm just disappointed there's no charter # on the card anymore. But.. that makes the card more portable, so I understand why.  ... so when the cadet presents a test paper I can say "that number is on your ID card, too".

I still think there needs to atleast be a unit charter number on the card.

Why?

[JArvey]

I suspect if it were a "legal" issue, they would not have it be optional for cadets. The legality is more that it's just not needed, so why burden the system with it. 

It gets the cards out quicker, the cadet functioning quicker as an ID card is required for participation.

Where as an adult is probably figuratively, capable of doing more for themselves, sooner.

Even though we all do mass-unit photo shoots, and help each other out anyway. As far as I'm concerned, the cadets can get photos uploaded, let 'em get a card that doesn't have a blank spot on it.

I'm just disappointed there's no charter # on the card anymore. But.. that makes the card more portable, so I understand why.  ... so when the cadet presents a test paper I can say "that number is on your ID card, too".

I still think there needs to atleast be a unit charter number on the card.

Why?

Lets say a new cadet is applying for encampment or such and forgot the charter number his commander told him, the cadet will not have eservices up yet so he used to be stuck just looking at the ID card but not anymore.

[EMT-83]

Lets say a new cadet is applying for encampment or such and forgot the charter number his commander told him, the cadet will not have eservices up yet so he used to be stuck just looking at the ID card but not anymore.

Seems like a stretch. A cadet isn't going to apply to encampment or anything else without having established an eServices account.

Minor details like OPSEC and Introduction to CAP Safety...

[DakRadz]

If properly conducted, you will have eServices long before that little plastic card.

Besides, Google provides a Wing website which generally contains the squadron numbers (and if you refer to GAWG, it does).

Also, the charter number of an encampment app (if paper form) is something you can leave blank until the next meeting.
If you have to mail it soon, call someone.

All reasons why charter number on the card isn't necessary.

[JArvey]

If properly conducted, you will have eServices long before that little plastic card.

Besides, Google provides a Wing website which generally contains the squadron numbers (and if you refer to GAWG, it does).

Also, the charter number of an encampment app (if paper form) is something you can leave blank until the next meeting.
If you have to mail it soon, call someone.

All reasons why charter number on the card isn't necessary.

Well my old commander dint tell me about eservices until I had been in a year, and GAWG does but not all the wings and it would make it easier if they just kept it on there.