Squadron/Group command as a pre-requisite for Wing command?

[lordmonar]

Anyone else --start at the beginning, work your way up...I don't care if you ran a Fortune 500 corporation or governed a state...just the way I see things.

Why?

Why let all that good talent go to waste just because they have "put in their time" with CAP?

If you are going to allow ex-military members get a fast track why not civilain CEOs?  If anything managing 200 civilains is a lot hard harder then managing 200 military members IMHO.

I recently switched from military managment to civilan managment.  I can tell you it is a differnt animal altogther and a lot closer to managmeing a CAP unit.

[SDF_Specialist]

Staff time at the wing level is more important than squadron command.  That's where a significant amount of learning the nuts and bolts of CAP occurs.

That depends though. If you think about it, not all Wing deputy directors or general staff get the chance to fully interact or interact at all with Wing command. I held a Wing staff position, and almost never had to talk to the Wing Commander for anything related to CAP. Of course there are those Wing staffers who are up the Wing CC's butt every staff meeting, sending emails, calling, etc.

[ZigZag911]

Anyone else --start at the beginning, work your way up...I don't care if you ran a Fortune 500 corporation or governed a state...just the way I see things.

Why?

Why let all that good talent go to waste just because they have "put in their time" with CAP?

If you are going to allow ex-military members get a fast track why not civilain CEOs?  If anything managing 200 civilains is a lot hard harder then managing 200 military members IMHO.

I recently switched from military managment to civilan managment.  I can tell you it is a differnt animal altogther and a lot closer to managmeing a CAP unit.

Because I have had the unpleasant experience, on numerous occasions, of serving under individuals who lacked significant experience in CAP. They had to learn the program on the job, did not understand the regulations, were unaware of the institutional history or culture (locally, nationally, or at the wing) and basically thought that having an MBA and managing 3 or 4 people for some large corporation, being an "entrepreneur" flying solo with NO staff, qualified them to run a state wide organization of over 25 squadrons, 4 groups, and more than 1200 members.

[Hawk200]

Prior command of a squadron to be wing CC? Don't know. At face value, it  seems to be a good idea. Just don't know the downsides at the moment. I would think a group command would have gained more applicable experience by virtue of the fact that they would deal with multiple units. The experience would be fitting, but it would be hard for a good number of people to accomplish this.

As a few have pointed out, command of 20 or 30 people doesn't prepare one to command four or five hundred.

A good wing DC or chief of staff may have the necessary qualifications, and can learn by observing the Wing CC, as well as executing his or her directives.

I think a minimum amount of time in CAP should be considered as well as a reasonable percentage of it be current. There should also be some legitimate disqualifiers.

In the first few years I was in, I was told that an additional requirement to make colonel (aside from Wing CC appointment) was to have Level 5 completed. I've since found that is not necessarily true. I think it should be a case of have it completed, or be close (it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway, Level 4 should be done).

Maybe we should consider Commander courses for each level. We already have a Unit CC course, why not Group, Wing and Region? Since the higher ones would obviously be more time intensive, make them a combination of correspondence and in residence.

[jimmydeanno]

Group, Wing and Region? Since the higher ones would obviously be more time intensive, make them a combination of correspondence and in residence.

There is a Wing Commanders' Course.  They like to call it "Charm School."  It's at Maxwell each year.

[ZigZag911]

As a few have pointed out, command of 20 or 30 people doesn't prepare one to command four or five hundred.

A good wing DC or chief of staff may have the necessary qualifications, and can learn by observing the Wing CC, as well as executing his or her directives.

I think a minimum amount of time in CAP should be considered as well as a reasonable percentage of it be current. There should also be some legitimate disqualifiers.

The military seems to prefer experience in a subordinate command before attempting a larger one; seems to work OK for them!

Most wing CV/CS have some orior commander and.or deputy commander experience.

I agree on the minimum time in CAP, and further feel completion of Level 4 should be a requirement, not simply a suggestion.

[jimmydeanno]

The military seems to prefer experience in a subordinate command before attempting a larger one; seems to work OK for them!

Of course it does.  That's because in the military, the lower levels of command are where the upper level commanders gain all their experience.  It is their primary career, and where their experience comes from.

In our situation, people have other careers where they develop their experience and we hope to take advantage of that.  It is unrealistic for CAP to expect our PD program to develop all the experience and leadership skills needed of upper level commanders. 

[lordmonar]

The military seems to prefer experience in a subordinate command before attempting a larger one; seems to work OK for them!

Of course it does.  That's because in the military, the lower levels of command are where the upper level commanders gain all their experience.  It is their primary career, and where their experience comes from.

In our situation, people have other careers where they develop their experience and we hope to take advantage of that.  It is unrealistic for CAP to expect our PD program to develop all the experience and leadership skills needed of upper level commanders.

The military also has the option of moving the commanders to the open command slot.  CAP does not have that ability.

[Hawk200]

The military seems to prefer experience in a subordinate command before attempting a larger one; seems to work OK for them!

That they do, but to move someone from a platoon directly to a battalion command doesn't happen. (I'm simply using those levels as the numbers are about equivalent. A squadron is equvialent to a company in the chain, but CAP squadrons tend to be about the same size as a platoon is in the Army.)

Some Army officers may not have commanded a company, but may move up to the battalion through assignments that lead up to deputy positions. A deputy should be learning how to command, as they're the ones who take over when the commander isn't there. Some officers move up that way because the commander slot won't be available in a manner that matches up with the timing of their career progression.