Specialty Merging - Why Not?

[Hawk200]

You think they should be combined because they both touch a file cabinet? That's not even a remotely valid justification. One handles personnel matters, the other handles paperwork, form stocking, correspondance, etc. The two don't even perform even remotely similar functions. The contents of the drawers would be completely different; the Admin officer has no real reason to deal with anything personnel wise, and the Personnel officer doesn't need to be touching admin's stuff.

Just because a few unit commanders designate one person to do both doesn't mean they're the same thing. I've got seven years doing personnel, and the only time I've ever really coordinated with the admin officer is to request forms be ordered, or to see if a pub is available in hardcopy. That's it. Coordination with the admin person a few times doesn't mean that they are the same job.

Have you ever done Personnel or Admin? If you haven't, then you need to do one or the other and see how they work. Not both at once, and don't dip your toes in the other's pool.

[Hawk200]

?  Yes, a lot of the Personnel stuff still needs paper, so wouldn't it make sense for the guy actually using all the paper to be the one in charge of ordering the forms (those that actually can be ordered) or printing them out at the house?

That's it? That's the justification? The personnel guy uses paper so he should be the Admin guy? How many other duties in a unit require forms? Just about every one of them has some kind of form to fill out, many far more than the personnel track. That is a flimsy supposition.

I would guess that you have done neither of these tracks. If you have, I don't think you knew either one very well. They are not interchangeable. Don't be looking for a solution that doesn't have a problem.

[RiverAux]

Been a squadron commander with a limited staff -- close enough. 

Funny, I would have thought there would have been more support for the concept of combining or eliminating positions that are no longer necessary.  Seems to me that quite a few squadrons have more than enough problems finding warm bodies even willing to consider doing staff jobs for CAP, so why waste a person on a position with little actual work associated with it?  If someone isn't ready for one of the "big" jobs, but wants to help, make him an assistant for someone that is already overloaded rather than giving them a makework job. 

The specialty track guide for Admin is a total joke.  If I was looking for the easiest way to go through CAP's PD program to get rank, that would have been the way to do it.  Basically, all you actually have to do is serve in that position -- I know of at least one unit that has a BUNCH of folks assigned to that job and the only reason I can think of is that its the CAP equivalent of the underwater basketweaving class from college. 

At one time Admin probably was a very demanding and necesary position, but that is no longer the case. 

[Hawk200]

I think that rather than dumping the Admin job on someone, it should be evaluated for duties that are more current and include those in the job description. There are probably things being done by Admin folks that just aren't covered in the breakdown. Which means that someone new coming into it isn't getting the whole story.

When things change so much that the pamphlet doesn't cover it, it's time for a rewrite. Eliminating the track just because it isn't current isn't very smart, and probably not practical.

[SDF_Specialist]

So why not just evaluate the most important job duties of either Administration or Personnel, then eliminate one of them? Having a rating in both, I don't see where it is necessary to have both.

[Hawk200]

So why not just evaluate the most important job duties of either Administration or Personnel, then eliminate one of them? Having a rating in both, I don't see where it is necessary to have both.

What gain does it serve? How does it benefit the unit?

I've done personnel, and it's something I've done well. I get things done for people, and I really would rather not have more work to do than what I have now. I put more than a few hours in in a week with it, and I'd really rather not have to handle a library and a forms base too. Every week brings new work in personnel, and being the ProDev officer also, I have more than enough work in either one. I could use an assistant in one or the other, or even both, but if we had enough bodies for that, I wouldn't be doubled up in the first place.

So what exactly makes you so mad that consolidating Admin and Personnel will fix it? I don't see anything solved by such an action other than a personal agenda.

[SDF_Specialist]

So what exactly makes you so mad that consolidating Admin and Personnel will fix it? I don't see anything solved by such an action other than a personal agenda.

Never said anything about being mad. I'm simply just meaning why not reduce the stress on the commander of having to find someone who is willing to do both rather than having two different people work side by side to get things done. It saves a hassle.

[Hawk200]

Never said anything about being mad. I'm simply just meaning why not reduce the stress on the commander of having to find someone who is willing to do both rather than having two different people work side by side to get things done. It saves a hassle.

I based that analysis on this:

So I walk talking to my wife the other night, still venting about a few things that's happened to me since I've been in CAP, and I started to question something to myself. Why can't NHQ merge Administration and Personnel, and make them one specialty?

If you're venting about something and considering a merger between specialty tracks, the reasoning is that the specialty tracks is what you were venting about. If I was irritated about something, I wouldn't suddenly be thinking of specialty tracks.

From all I've seen, it's rare to meet up with someone who is enrolled in just one of the two. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have them merged, rather than two separate? This could save the CC from having to fill a position if a member decides to pursue just one. I don't know. To me, it just makes a little more sense. Anyone else feel this way?

I haven't seen it as all that rare. I've been assigned to four units, and they were entirely separate. I've visited a dozen others, and I've only known of that combination in two of them. When there were dual hats, most people had Admin and ES, or Personnel and Safety, combos like that. Personnel, Admin, and Senior Programs have been considered "minor" jobs in most units that I have ever seen (don't agree, that's just what I've seen), and each person usually had one "minor" job and one "major" one, sometimes several people had the same "minor" tracks.

Also, a lot people start out in those less intensive specialties when they first join. It gives them a chance to learn about CAP, and then move up. It avoids immediate overload that could cost you a new member over the first few months. I started out doing Safety in my first unit, and regretted it, it's not an easy track, and I was only in a ground unit. I stuck to it, but a lot of people don't. We really don't need to make it harder for a single individual when the work can be divvied up.

[ThorntonOL]

Comparatively I thought Logistics specialty track was a joke, especially if you have a small squadron with a small meeting place. (for me this changed when our unit moved.)
It hasn't been updated for a while and I think there is a need to at least rewrite all the specialty tracks that are over eight years old to at least make it relveant to today. (Well maybe not relevant but at least include the new regs with them and figure out the ECI courses.)
Don't worry I'm not trying to diss Logistics, i'm a logisitcs officer in my unit. (I'm only an  assistant as the head ogisitcs officer does similar work for his regular job.)

[RiverAux]

It hasn't been updated for a while and I think there is a need to at least rewrite all the specialty tracks that are over eight years old to at least make it relveant to today. (Well maybe not relevant but at least include the new regs with them and figure out the ECI courses.)

I think we can all agree that the specialty tracks need to be updated and at least roughly standardized in terms of time-in-position requirements and relative complexity of duties. 

[Short Field]

I don't know the admin side other than what is in CAPP 205, but I do know that it does not match up with what I've done in Personnel.

Same here.  I got enrolled in Admin first because that is what the unit thought it needed.  After a month, I was moved to Personnel.  So my Master rating is in Personnel with a None rating in Admin.  Apples and oranges, plus separate filing cabinets and separate rooms in the building.