Adults watch out for the CPP

[Skipper]

The CPP is an ill comceived and badly written.  For instance, a cadet comes through the meeting room door, no one else present, its technically a violation to say good evening.  Worse, you had heard this kid had just lost a brother in a car accident, its illegal to express your condolences.  If someone wanted to make this kind of idle courtesy an issue, you could be suspended for just saying it.  The CPP has made kids into poison.  Recently a Unit CO wanted rid of a Senior, so he told a kid to engage the senior in conversation away from oversight.  As the Senior was loading his car with books and such, the kid engaged him in conversation of a totally innocent nature, secretly recorded it on his phone and the man was suspended.  For 180 days this languished in the IG and was eventually cleared, but not after HEART SURGERY, LOSS OF EYESIGHT due to blood pressure and stress, and the CO goes free ?  What is wrong with this picture.  Take my Attoryens advise, do not get involved with CAP, the regs make those kids toxic to adults, and no wwonder the membeship numbers are dropping. The CPP needs to spell out the consequences for filing false reports, or misrepresenting, or enticing a child into a conspiracy.  In my day as a Unit CO, this behavior got you 2B'd at the least and the offending individuals needed eyes in the back of their heeads for a long time. CAP doesnt care about the victim, all they care about is not making waves that might get to a congressional ear. If that man dies, is it homocide, or just too bad for him   Screew CAP, im done with these Soldier wannabees and children at play.

[stillamarine]

The CPP is an ill comceived and badly written.  For instance, a cadet comes through the meeting room door, no one else present, its technically a violation to say good evening.  Worse, you had heard this kid had just lost a brother in a car accident, its illegal to express your condolences.  If someone wanted to make this kind of idle courtesy an issue, you could be suspended for just saying it.  The CPP has made kids into poison.  Recently a Unit CO wanted rid of a Senior, so he told a kid to engage the senior in conversation away from oversight.  As the Senior was loading his car with books and such, the kid engaged him in conversation of a totally innocent nature, secretly recorded it on his phone and the man was suspended.  For 180 days this languished in the IG and was eventually cleared, but not after HEART SURGERY, LOSS OF EYESIGHT due to blood pressure and stress, and the CO goes free ?  What is wrong with this picture.  Take my Attoryens advise, do not get involved with CAP, the regs make those kids toxic to adults, and no wwonder the membeship numbers are dropping. The CPP needs to spell out the consequences for filing false reports, or misrepresenting, or enticing a child into a conspiracy.  In my day as a Unit CO, this behavior got you 2B'd at the least and the offending individuals needed eyes in the back of their heeads for a long time. CAP doesnt care about the victim, all they care about is not making waves that might get to a congressional ear. If that man dies, is it homocide, or just too bad for him   Screew CAP, im done with these Soldier wannabees and children at play.

That SM needs to press charges on the cadet. Florida is an all party state which means all parties of a recording must be aware of the recording.

[Ned]

Thanks for the driveby.

I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed with CAP regulations and policies.  I suppose I could take the time to point out that much of what you have described is incorrect, but I'm not sure I will be able to change your mind or adequately address your concerns.  Wild, unsupported anonymous accusations over the internet are normally not an effective way to constructively engage and change policy.  But it was nice of you to point out that the CAP IG system worked and cleared at least one senior member of what you claim was some sort of wild conspiracy.

Thank you for your past service. 

After you've had some time away, take amount and compare CAPs CPP with all the similar policies that protect youth in other mainstream youth programs (Scouts, Campfire, Big Brothers/Sisters, YMCA, etc.,) and I think you will find a great deal of similarity rather than a conspiracy.

Feel free to PM me with any further concerns.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

[Skipper]

Incorrect.  Florida statutes make an exception for a public place where there is no reasonable expectation of privacym while unethical sure, it is not illegal nor must the other party be notified of the recording.  The kids at the school the cadet goes to are turning up the heat on him in their own ways, the kid is having hell every day at school now.

[stillamarine]

Incorrect.  Florida statutes make an exception for a public place where there is no reasonable expectation of privacym while unethical sure, it is not illegal nor must the other party be notified of the recording.  The kids at the school the cadet goes to are turning up the heat on him in their own ways, the kid is having hell every day at school now.

Standing by themselves near the SMs vehicle would not necessarily constitute a public place. If they were the only two around and no one was anywhere near then an argument could be made to that expectation. I dealt with that statute quite a bit as a PI in Florida some years ago. If "he" is getting that from a lawyer he needs a better lawyer. Also I do not agree with sicing other kids on the kid that recorded. That's a recipe for disaster. How will you feel when that kid hangs himself after all the bullying?

[Skipper]

Everything was quoted and was proven. The IG worked, but too late, the heart and eye damage was already done, they took 6 months to investigate what should have been cleared in a few days at best.  Leaving someone with over 30 years service addused wrongfully and left to languish is mean and cruel, no wonder he says screw CAP.  its CAPS lost too, he directed more than $15000 in funding to other youth organizations this first quarter, CAP gets not one cent. The CO who set up the entire scam is free as a birf, laghing that he successfully got rid of the victim. So he gets away with ruining a mans life ?  Whats wrong with that, at least terminate the SOB.

[Skipper]

Bullying ?  What a laugh.  What about the SM who is in his late 50's now unable to work, taking hundreds of dollars in medication daily just to stay alive, and the CO who perpetrated the scam is free as a bird.  Cap doesnt give a [darn] about the SM and doesnt want to make waves against the CO.  Best thing that can happen is the SM hangs himself because of being unable to work and support himself and his family, then CAP can close their precious file.

PS:  No one sicked the kids on the Cadet, they all knew the SM and felt bad for what was done to him, they took their own initiative.  The squadron has dropped to just about nothing, because everyone things the CO is a complete JERK and no one wants to have anything to do with him.  CAP keeps him in, even though it was clear and proven that he was the instigator of the complaint, the CPP violation, and the suspension, all of which were lies.  The Cadet wasnt even a member, he was out of dues date for 2.5 months and only renewed the day after the alleged conversation to make things appear normal.  Fortunately, spies at National were able to ferret out the data and mess of his plans, but it took time.

Im going to rat this mess out to my Congressman and make sure it is dealt with at the highest possible leves to embarass CAP the best I possibly can.  Someone has to stand up for the victim, CAP could care less.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Poorly worded, grammatically incorrect ranting is supposed to do what? The stress of a known false accusation caused all those health issues? Seriously? Go troll somewhere else.

[Skipper]

Another beef with CAP, lack of freedom of speach.  This is a form, not a doctoral dissertation. Idiot.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Another beef with CAP, lack of freedom of speach.  This is a form, not a doctoral dissertation. Idiot.

I'm sure the congresspersons office will appreciate this type of language or attention to detail with such serious accusations.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And WHILE we're at it:

n691842583y@yahoo.com
Im 62 and I have two best friend, a marine who is 23 and a neighborhood kid who is 16 and I watched him grow up. I talk to both of my buddies every day, the 3 of us camp together, hunt together, hang out together. The teen stays with me when his parents travel, I take him to haircute, the doctor and school. He is like my own son/brother. When we hang out, we all crowd the couch to watch a game, or a scarey movie, in contact with each other, 16 falls asleep and drools on my shoulder. Ive taught him to fly airplanes, scuba dive, swim, shoot, and he just told me during a hug "thanks for teaching me how to be a man...". Guys bond close and hard and usually for life, its great to have someone to love, a special and deep love that doesnt involve sex, specially when the love is returned.

Mind explaining this? Because as a CAP officer that works with cadets, reading THAT just threw up some serious CPP flags for me.

[RogueLeader]

Another beef with CAP, lack of freedom of speach.  This is a form, not a doctoral dissertation. Idiot.

Might I refer you to the Membership code of Conduct thread in the Announcements section.

[Garibaldi]

Been waiting to try this one out...



Have a nice day.

Seriously, first post for you and this is what you have to say?

Bye, Felicia.

[stillamarine]

First and foremost YES bullying. That's exactly what you described. And you may not have sicced them on him but you are a grown man and should have told them to knock it off. Is what he did wrong? If what you are describing is true than yes. But I'm finding your story very hard to believe. I served in FLWG for many years. While I disagreed with some things (mainly with where they hosted PD classes) I've never seen the attitude that you describe. I have also been involved with CAP for going on 20 plus years on and off. There's no conspiracy. The CPP is extremely similar to the Boy Scouts Learning for Life. Actually CAP isn't as bad in my opinion.

As far as this "SM's" physical health I'm sorry that he's having those issues. I don't think I'd ever let something stress me out to that point. I had a similar incident involving one of our police explorers filing a complaint on me a couple years ago. I was suspended from the program for 6 months while my dept's internal affairs division did an investigation and I had a determination hearing in front of my chief. I knew I did nothing wrong and I didn't let it bother me at all. So I'll keep him in my prayers but I wonder why he let him affect him that much. It's a volunteer organization. Not the end of the world.

[abdsp51]

Wow the lack of syntax, grammar and over all simple writing skils of this OP takes the cake.  Gentlemen I think this person is getting what he/she wants.   While I am not one to consider even locking threads this one definately needs to be to prevent it from getting out of hand and to deny this trollinv party the outlet and oppurtunity for what fhey are seeking.

[stillamarine]

Wow the lack of syntax, grammar and over all simple writing skils of this OP takes the cake.  Gentlemen I think this person is getting what he/she wants.   While I am not one to consider even locking threads this one definately needs to be to prevent it from getting out of hand and to deny this trollinv party the outlet and oppurtunity for what fhey are seeking.

You're no fun. And I'm not even going to point out your spelling errors 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Wow the lack of syntax, grammar and over all simple writing skils of this OP takes the cake.  Gentlemen I think this person is getting what he/she wants.   While I am not one to consider even locking threads this one definately needs to be to prevent it from getting out of hand and to deny this trollinv party the outlet and oppurtunity for what fhey are seeking.

Oh, he's certainly 62, and he's certainly got some issues with teens.

[abdsp51]

Wow the lack of syntax, grammar and over all simple writing skils of this OP takes the cake.  Gentlemen I think this person is getting what he/she wants.   While I am not one to consider even locking threads this one definately needs to be to prevent it from getting out of hand and to deny this trollinv party the outlet and oppurtunity for what fhey are seeking.

You're no fun. And I'm not even going to point out your spelling errors 

Hey autocorrect didn't kick in so at the worst its word choice :p.  Still this is repugnant and needs to be intercepted and the troll stopped at the bridge..

[C/SrA Ravlin]

Skipper,
I am sorry that what you say to have happened happened (unbelievable as it is...). But this is just a forum, and while there are some people on here who can fix it, this is no way to go about it. Your best case is to go through you local CAP headquarters. Others on here, Don't give this guy/gal what they want which is a response...

[Garibaldi]

Thinking on this a bit...while this is certainly not the place to air this kind of grievance, we DO have a responsibility to address these concerns. I, for one, have been way too quick on the draw in the past with regards to letting my temper and ego get in the way of a rational discussion.

What if these things are true? Ned gave the OP some good advice, which OP has deflected as "meaningless" and "irrelevant". Therefore, it would seem to me that the OP is venting his spleen on something he really should not be involved in. Or chose to insert himself into. If his concerns were not addressed by the Wing IG, or dismissed, then I can understand the anger.

If he really is that upset, then of course he has more than one recourse available to him, but to me, it would be tilting at windmills. Ned is our resident attorney, and I've taken a few law courses along the way (that makes me about as much a lawyer as a first year Poli-Sci student is knowledgeable of our political system). So my advice would be to seek some satisfaction another, legal way.

But based on what little the OP posted, it looks to me like a smear campaign based on faulty intel. And "spies at national"? Hm.  The only "in" I have with anything at National would be my Wing CC, the chair of the Uniform Committee, and I don't know him that well at all, and I would never feel comfortable asking him to "ferret out information."

Everything he said was heresay. Some courts would call that inadmissible. He has no facts to bolster his argument, just opinions. The "facts" he listed here would not mean anything without proof. A recorded conversation not agreed upon by both parties in a state with a two-party recording agreement would also be considered inadmissible evidence. Entrapment, if you will. Georgia requires us to notify the other party that the call is on a recorded line. If they do not consent, the call terminates or the recording is ended. Not sure how that works with remote monitoring.

At any rate, true as this story may be, this ain't the place to air that kind of grievance.