Senior Member process to change squadrons

[Eclipse]

They still went behind his back, got the money, and guess who's kids went to encampment for nothing?

How could they go "behind his back"?  Either its unit funds and that requires finance committee approval (and the CC is always on that committee), or
they aren't, and if they aren't, who cares?

You can't spend "my" money, but if you get other people to spend money, good on 'ye.

[docbiochem33]

Two were on the finance committee and they just went ahead and did the transaction anyway.  Glad CAP went to Wing Banker.  There were questions and the good stern, "Don't do that again" talk from a higher headquarters, but that was it.

[Eclipse]

Two were on the finance committee and they just went ahead and did the transaction anyway.  Glad CAP went to Wing Banker.  There were questions and the good stern, "Don't do that again" talk from a higher headquarters, but that was it.

That would have been a couple of red-hot 2b's right after the checks were reversed.

[NIN]

NIN that was awesome, we need more of that from Squadron Commanders   :clap:

Yeah, I couldn't exactly tell my cadets to S^2.

[NIN]

Two were on the finance committee and they just went ahead and did the transaction anyway.  Glad CAP went to Wing Banker.  There were questions and the good stern, "Don't do that again" talk from a higher headquarters, but that was it.

That would have been a couple of red-hot 2b's right after the checks were reversed.

No doubt.

Wing banker came along at the end of my last tour as commander.  I gritted my teeth and implemented as directed.  The great thing was that my unit had a very robust finance process (my finance officer during my first tour was meticulous!) where we were accustomed to documenting the daylights out of things.  We used a check request form, for example, that laid out what the approval levels were right on the form. No questions, no confusion. You put $25 in gas in the squadron van during the last activity, you submitted a check request and the receipt, and it was clear who was the approving authority.  We even tracked whether it was a budgeted expense and what account it was applied to on the form.   (during SUIs, my finance section regularly got benchmarked and wing even stole our forms when the Wing Banker program came along)  

But we also documented finance committee meeting minutes, etc. Approved check requests had to be countersigned by the finance committee (chairman, probably, if I recall), the finance officer and the commander at the finance committee level.  Nobody was slipping an encampment sized check request past the finance committee in any instance, and the finance committee's minutes reflected. (You could match up every check request against finance committee minutes if the approval level required the finance committee.  It was also my practice to require the finance officer to sign off the form alongside the commander when the approval level was below the finance committee.)

When wing banker came along, pretty much the only difference to us was that the check request, after finance committee approval, went 400 yards from sq hq to wing hq to have a check cut instead of the unit finance officer doing it. <shrug> Apart from a little induced lag in the process, it was a no-brainer.

If someone is "slipping something" by the commander, however, they need a swift kick out of the organization.

[Eclipse]

When wing banker came along, pretty much the only difference to us was that the check request, after finance committee approval, went 400 yards from sq hq to wing hq to have a check cut instead of the unit finance officer doing it. <shrug> Apart from a little induced lag in the process, it was a no-brainer.

Ditto - I never understood the heartburn on the conversion.  We were doing pretty much the same thing, and nothing changed much
after the transition.  In most cases, those in my wing who had the most "issues" with the WBP also had the most "challenges" in regards to
how they handled their finances in general.

Same goes for the 8 encampments I ran - every penny accounted for to the last receipt, at least two sigs on every check, and a finance
approval form on every one of those.  Frankly it never occurred to me to do it any other way.

[a2capt]

All the FUD about "Group/Wing/Region/National/They will take your money" and "We have to beg, plead and justify to use our own money".
No. Just have to have minutes and a paper trail, and not be stupid about it. That's all.

[docbiochem33]

I loved wing banker.  I was in a couple of squadrons where not even the finance officer knew what was happening because the commander would have a spouse do something or the commander was doing everything.  The finance officer only saw what was given to them.

I remember an investigation that resulted in finds of cash that were sent to the unit for an activity only to find out that the commander didn't let anyone know, cashed the check, and used the money for himself.  Then there were complaints that the commander had used money that was raised by the unit to pay for some of his equipment and the amount given to the finance officer was different and was shown as different in the finance records.

As a cadet I also know of a unit that was spending all of its money on the aircraft and not getting the money from members who were flying.  Cadets raised about $600.00 and all of it went to the aircraft.  I thought all of this was a rumor when I had heard about it and then about 6 years later when I was a senior and going through the old records for destruction I found a bill for fuel that a senior member charged to the squadron.  I then found a letter telling all pilots that they were going to have to pay the squadron more to use the aircraft to cover costs associated with the aircraft.  A senior member told me all about it and how they tried to stop it, but couldn't for a long time.

Wing banker may make life a little more difficult, but it helped.  I think there is less "theft" or "conversion" since it has come along.

[LGM30GMCC]

A squadron spending money raised by the cadets for financing flying could be perfectly legitimate if that's how its budgeted. It may be a pretty jerk move to do things this way but once money enters a squadron, unless it is specifically designated, it can be spent on any squadron needs. The only thing cadets/SM CP types could do in this case would be to simply stop raising funds for the unit.

[FDLT19]

Just to spray a little Windex on the window, Wing Banker is a new program that has been implemented to ensure accountability and tracking of monies spent by the SQ/GP/WG, and further ensures that earmarked monies are spent on the proper line item?

So where is the heartache from this coming from? 

[Eclipse]

The WBP has been in use since 2008 nationally, its hardly a "new" program.

[FDLT19]

Right, I got out in 06, and am coming back in, so this is something I am unfamiliar with and needed clarification on it. I am just surprised a program of this nature would cause problems for SQ management, as I would, and do, want every red cent I spend of someone else's money accounted for.

[Eclipse]

From a purely squadron management perspective, it makes life a lot easier, same goes for audits and inspections - generally the same
people who can't figure out how to process a check, or can't plan far enough in advance that they don't get hung out for an extra week
on a paperclip reimbursement, suffer other "challenges" in understanding basic CAP procedures and processes.

There's also just a contingent of members who don't like being told what to do, and a very tiny one that were using funds for whatever they
pleased. There were also a few conspiracy theorists who made noise about how "wing is going to take my money", blah blah.

[FDLT19]

Roger that,

So simply, if you can plan a budget, manage said budget, function with in the limitations of said budget, and have the foresight to plan for unexpected items, the programs great; however, if your counting pennies for pens your in trouble. 

[Eclipse]

It's not even at that most basic level, it's a lot lower.

Literally people who can't figure out how to get things done if they aren't in the same physical room as the finance comittee members.

"John's been in Europe all summer, so we haven't had an FC meeting since May".

Really?  They don't have internet in Europe? 
(Most wings now allow for email-based committee meetings and electronic signatures or some other electronic check approval, it's not rocket surgery.)

[FDLT19]

I see,

So it more or less streamlines finance.

Also, I am sure that we have those who think if we do it on the interweb, well, "Sir, you can't let him in here. He'll see everything. He'll see the big board!"

What is the associated CAPR or Policy

[LGM30GMCC]

Here's a link to the stuff you would need at the basic 'CAP-wide' level.

http://www.capmembers.com/forms_publications__regulations/r173-001/

[68w20]

It's not even at that most basic level, it's a lot lower.

Literally people who can't figure out how to get things done if they aren't in the same physical room as the finance comittee members.

"John's been in Europe all summer, so we haven't had an FC meeting since May".

Really?  They don't have internet in Europe? 
(Most wings now allow for email-based committee meetings and electronic signatures or some other electronic check approval, it's not rocket surgery.)

That or skype and a scanner.  I can't tell you how many times a member has told me I'll have to wait until the next Squadron meeting for a signature, and then in the next sentence acknowledges that they own/have access to a scanner.

[docbiochem33]

I don't think that Wing Banker makes things a matter of Wing taking the money and not giving it up.  It is a matter of people knowing where money is going.

This makes it easier for an investigation if there is a complaint of theft.

[GroundHawg]

Mike, I informed them last night that I will not be there until further notice, and that I will be resigning from all positions except Historian. Good luck...