Squadron structure and leadership

[BigShu]

As a really new member, I'm still figuring out how the personalities in my squadron mesh. I have a question about how leadership is determined, and how leader succession works, but haven't found the answer in the regs. If someone could point me to the pertinent reg, or pamphlet, I'd appreciate it.

[JeffDG]

As a really new member, I'm still figuring out how the personalities in my squadron mesh. I have a question about how leadership is determined, and how leader succession works, but haven't found the answer in the regs. If someone could point me to the pertinent reg, or pamphlet, I'd appreciate it.

Well, in the event of the loss of the Squadron Commander, the deputy commander takes command on an interim basis, until the Wing Commander appoints a permanent successor.

[jimmydeanno]

Wing commander approves new squadron commanders.  Typically, those interested in taking over will apply for the job and do an interview.  The outgoing commander will usually get to provide some input into the candidates, or even begin grooming someone to take over for them.

Doesn't matter if a 2d Lt gets the job over a Lt Col.  Ultimately it's up to the wing commander.

For other spots in the unit, the squadron commander just picks from the pool at their discretion and agreement from the person taking the role.

[Eclipse]

In wings with Groups, the Group CC generally recommends the new Unit CC, but the Wing CC still is the appointment
authority.  Many wings now hold to a CC term limit.

Anything below the unit CC is 100% the subjective discretion of the Unit CC.

[JeffDG]

In wings with Groups, the Group CC generally recommends the new Unit CC, but the Wing CC still is the appointment
authority.  Many wings now hold to a CC term limit.

Anything below the unit CC is 100% the subjective discretion of the Unit CC.

I've been in a senior squadron...

If something happens to the commander in a composite, who takes over the CDS or CDC on an interim basis?

[Eclipse]

That's up to the Unit CC, and should be determined in advance.  If the Unit CC is incapacitated, the Wing CC needs to make the determination to avoid any in-fighting.

CDS and CDC are peers, with specific authority over their "branch", both ae equally CDs.

[spacecommand]

In our unit (a Composite Squadron), when our CC left, the CDC took over as Commander (the CDS had no interest).

Ultimately it is the Wing Commander who approves of the unit CC. In our Wing, if someone leaves the unit CC position, a general announcement is made throughout the entire wing for volunteers looking to fulfill the position.  In theory, anyone from any other unit could apply for that position.  In reality, usually someone from within that particular unit is asked to take over.  In our case our CDC agreed to become the CC. 

For positions under the Unit CC it is up to that Unit CC to fill those positions.

In our case, the CC left, the CDC became the new CC and the CDC position was open.  The CDC slot was filled by another Cadet Programs officer (who was me. At the time I was working as the AEO, so I was already working with the cadets and knew how the cadet program operated).  Since the new CC was the CDC and he wasn't going anywhere, he was there to advise on any items that I might of ran into.  I'll be soon leaving the CDC position and I have been training another Cadet Programs officer the past few months to take over the position. 

Every unit is different, and it depends on if you have qualified folks to fill those positions or not.  Hopefully you will always have someone as backup to fill positions in case of an absence, but not all units have that luxury. 

[coudano]

It seems to me that the deputy seniors is first to take over in the absence of the sqcc,
but i can't back that up with documentation

in some cases, what happens when a squadron commander goes away, is that the group and wing leadership show up and start BEGGING someone to step up from the remaining senior members...  sometimes that begging does no good.

worth noting, if your cds and cdc are doing their jobs right,
the absence of a squadron cc shouldn't even impact operations...
even the permanent loss of sqcc shouldn't sink the boat immediately...

[spacecommand]

The CDS and a CDC are equal  and  one doesn't fall under the other, they are both deputies to the CC.  They just oversee different parts of the composite squadron. 

CAPR 20-1 page 21 Figure 16 Composite Squadron Organization Chart (senior member positions).


In the absence of the unit CC, hopefully prior arrangements have been made on who will be in charge for the evening.  If none exists, units should develop one.  If none exists and the situation comes up, using common sense and working on who should take charge is the best thing to do.  Everyone should know what to do for the evening even if the unit CC doesn't show up for the evening for whatever reason.

In our case, sometimes the unit CC will be absent for a meeting due to overtime at work or other item that prevents them from going to the meeting.  Usually the unit CC would designate someone to be in charge for the evening.  Due to the nature of  how our unit works, the CDC is the person usually designated. 

[BigShu]

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses.
So the Wing CC gets to choose, with input from the Group CC if there is one, and perhaps input from the outgoing Squadron CC.  There are some wings with set terms, but it's not a uniform, or regulated practice. (points for using "uniform" in a post?) Is it so dificult to find commanders that term limits would be a mistake?
What do unit CC's do once they leave that post? I know they have specialty tracks, and probably would pick up some duty assignment if they aren't leaving the organization, but that could be awkward within the squadron, yes? Is there a lot of movement between echelons? Is CAP an organization where the expectation is move up or move out? I don't see a lot of that, because it appears there are a lot of people who reach a level, and hang out for extended periods of time.
On the other hand, there seem to be a lot of "retired" CAP people in this group. The organizational changes we've been discussing this week have got me thinking a lot about the internal mechanics of the orgaization, and how it all fits together, without much success. I gather there's been pretty widespread concerns about GOB's and overall identity of the organization, but I've lost any sense of system integration taking it back to the unit level.

[lordmonar]

As a former commander....it can be awkward......especially if he had to step down due to a term limit.

But it also can be very cool....you just step into a job and do it....the real PITA is that wing staffers (and the CC) keep calling/e-mailing you to deal with things that the CC should be doing.

"Hey Pat can we use your Van?"  "Hey Pat can we use your radios"  "Hey Pat we need this paperwork done soonest"

[Eclipse]

Ideally the unit CC moves on to bigger and better things, and hopefully gives the new guy his space for the first year.

[coudano]

Is it so dificult to find commanders that term limits would be a mistake?

In some cases, yes.  Particularly smaller rural units, finding someone to command can be a real challenge.
My squadron had a commander, commanding the squadron for 10 years.
There really wasn't anyone else interested in the job either...  He was doing a fine job.
On the other hand, when you stick with one leader for that long, the unit can sort of stagnate into a set way of doing things, and might miss out on some opportunities due to lack of flexibility from "we've always done it this way".
On the OTHER hand, a reliable long running commander is better than no commander at all...  which sometimes is the death of a small unit.

What do unit CC's do once they leave that post?

Maybe group or wing staff.  Sometimes they just go back to being "a senior member" in the squadron.
(like the logistics officer, or whatever)
Infact i've seen WING commanders do this after their wing command ended...   they just go back to the squadron from whence they came and handle logistics or finance or whatever...  Seen this sort of thing out of region and national staffers as well, once their tours at the upper echelons ended.

Is there a lot of movement between echelons?

There can be.  GOBN aside, from what i've seen, if you have some capability, and some motivation, you can find yourself in a wing level staff position pretty quick.  I've even seen wings vaccuum strong/motivated new talent out of squadrons straight up to the wing basically right after the senior member joined.  Not the most ideal situation for the squadron, or the new member, in my opinion, but the alternative is what;;;  an empty office at wing hq, or staff it with someone who doesn't do a good job or doesn't care???

Is CAP an organization where the expectation is move up or move out?

For cadets, yes.  They have a regulatory requirement to advance satisfactorily.
For senior members, no.  I have been at the squadron level since the day I turned senior 15 years ago.
And as of right now, I dont really have any intention to change that, in the next 15+ years.

I have done some projects and events at upper echelons, but my unit of membership has always been at the squadron level (and I intend to keep it that way).  I advanced in rank out of personal motivation, but I could just as well have never promoted again as a senior member, and done all the same things that I have done along the way.

The organizational changes we've been discussing this week have got me thinking a lot about the internal mechanics of the orgaization, and how it all fits together, without much success. I gather there's been pretty widespread concerns about GOB's and overall identity of the organization, but I've lost any sense of system integration taking it back to the unit level.

The organizational changes we have seen lately are not likely to have much of an immediate impact on the squadron level reality of CAP.  There is an entire layer of wing/region "stuff" between the unit and the bog/nhq level drama, and most unit level members can carry on weekly operations without ever knowing or frankly caring much what goes on at those echelons.  You (probably) can't be active in a squadron without at least bumping up against wing level nonsense from time to time, but you don't have to engage in that sillyness either, unless you just want to.

For my money, CAP happens at the unit level anyway.
Of course, somebody has to do that stuff at the wing+ echelons, but quite frankly, i'm happy to let them.
And for the most part, until they start messing with me, I don't particularly care about the CAP political drama of the week.

[spacecommand]

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses.
So the Wing CC gets to choose, with input from the Group CC if there is one, and perhaps input from the outgoing Squadron CC....

Wing Commanders appoint unit commanders to their positions yes.  For "choosing" in reality (at least from my unit's history and other units in my Wing) the selection of the person, eg the "choosing" who that nominee to be appointed is generally done by the unit members themselves.  That member is then suggested to the Wing Commander, who in the majority of the time will appoint that person to be the Unit CC of that squadron.   Hopefully members of a unit loosing the unit CC will deliberate and select amongst current members of the unit on who will want to be the next CC, that particular process can be formal or informal, just depends on the unit.

Of course the Wing Commander does not have to appoint that person to be the Unit CC and can appoint anyone else they feel is qualified, but I find in actual practice that the Wing Commander (at least the ones in my Wing) will not do this and go with the wishes of the unit and have someone within the unit become the unit CC. 

[Spaceman3750]

Last time we needed a squadron CC at my unit, it was down to two folks. The person with the better excuse for why they couldn't do it got off and the one with the worse excuse is now the CC .

[abdsp51]

Last time we needed a squadron CC at my unit, it was down to two folks. The person with the better excuse for why they couldn't do it got off and the one with the worse excuse is now the CC .

And if neither person has accomplished  UCC?

[spacecommand]

To my knowledge there is no National requirement that squadron commander's have UCC, some Wings might require it, others might not. 

[Private Investigator]

That's up to the Unit CC, and should be determined in advance.  If the Unit CC is incapacitated, the Wing CC needs to make the determination to avoid any in-fighting.

CDS and CDC are peers, with specific authority over their "branch", both ae equally CDs.

When I was a Squadron Commander and when I was on vacation or whatever. I would leave the CDS as acting CC the next time it was CDC. They both are capable and good experience so when my term was up I had at least two good candidates to choose from.

[Private Investigator]

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses.
So the Wing CC gets to choose, with input from the Group CC if there is one, and perhaps input from the outgoing Squadron CC.  There are some wings with set terms, but it's not a uniform, or regulated practice. (points for using "uniform" in a post?) Is it so dificult to find commanders that term limits would be a mistake?
What do unit CC's do once they leave that post? I know they have specialty tracks, and probably would pick up some duty assignment if they aren't leaving the organization, but that could be awkward within the squadron, yes? Is there a lot of movement between echelons? Is CAP an organization where the expectation is move up or move out? I don't see a lot of that, because it appears there are a lot of people who reach a level, and hang out for extended periods of time.
On the other hand, there seem to be a lot of "retired" CAP people in this group. The organizational changes we've been discussing this week have got me thinking a lot about the internal mechanics of the orgaization, and how it all fits together, without much success. I gather there's been pretty widespread concerns about GOB's and overall identity of the organization, but I've lost any sense of system integration taking it back to the unit level.

Good questions. When I was a Group Commander I wanted to interview at least three candidates for SQ/CC before recommending anybody to Wing/CC. I really think 90% of the time a Squadron Commander should just do three years and he should be training his replacement from day #1.

It depends on location and the Squadron. I know a Senior Squadron that has more former Squadron Commanders than Wing HQ. It depends on many group dynamics. Another thing I notice over the years is a lot of former Squadron Commanders leave CAP after their tour is up because they got burned out on CAP. If you really enjoy CAP you can do any job, Commander or coffee maker.

Have fun