CAP Talk

I notice that those wishing to substitute Professional Military Education courses for CAP's Region Staff College in the Level IV program have a choice of using either the Squadron Officer School or Air Command and Staff College correspondence courses (among other options). 

My question for those of you who have taken these courses is which of them to you think would be best for the average CAP member to take?  Which would the CAP member find most useful either from the standpoint of developing their leadership capabilities or in gaining professional knowledge that could be directly applied to CAP? 

Obviously, SOS would be taken first by AF officers and then ACSC, but is that the most useful progession for a CAP member (who has gone through the rest of the CAP PD program with no shortcuts)? 

Thanks.

You have to be a captain or captain-select to be eligible to enroll in SOS; a major or major-select to enroll in ACSC. CAP does not have [grade]-selects. It might be a long shot to be enrolled into SOS or ACSC via correspondence as a CAP 1st Lt (for SOS) or CAP Capt (for ACSC) if you have completed all requirements for Level II or Level II and have less than a year to go for time in grade, but you'd probably have to get justification and approval from the promoting authority (Group CC for Capt, Wing CC for Maj) with the enrollment application.

Not quite sure why you provided the info you did as it wasn't relevant to the question.  Thanks for trying though.  As I said, we're talking about someone working on their Level IV so they are a Major and therefore eligible to take both.

Having taken SOS instead of RSC, I recommend following the order: SOS -> ACSC -> AWC. Since most CAP members do not have the military background assumed by the developers of those courses, following the progression helps provide some of the necessary background.

Note: I haven't taken ACSC yet (I'm just a Capt), but that's next. (replaces NSC)

Was SOS valuable to a CAP officer?  How about to general civilian life?

I've taken SOS to complete Level IV. (Family and work made a week in NJ not an option). I have not decided if I want to try NSC or ACSC for Level V.

From what I've read ACSC builds on SOS. This makes sense as you take it later in an AF career.

You can only use a PME course once to cover a CAP PD requirement. If you were to take ACSC and use it to cover Region Staff College (RSC) for Level IV, you could NOT then use it to cover National Staff College (NSC) for Level V. SOS can not be used to replace NSC. You would have to then go to War College to get Level V.

My $0.02 is take SOS.

Quote from: Tubacap on August 30, 2008, 10:29:35 PM
Was SOS valuable to a CAP officer?  How about to general civilian life?

SOS builds on (and sometimes repeats) subjects from the CAP Senior Officer Course (aka ECI-13, SOC...). With very few exceptions (like calculating enlisted personnel's WAP scores) it is all about effectively managing and leading. That is valuable in CAP, at work and almost anywhere else.

SOS is an exceptional course that's been updated more recently. I do believe it will help the average member substantially in CAP. Hard to say what it'll do for you in civilian life. It's one correspondence course. I wouldn't exactly expect it to magically change the world & make car mechanics into CEOs.

Quote from: RiverAux on August 30, 2008, 09:48:59 PM
As I said, we're talking about someone working on their Level IV so they are a Major and therefore eligible to take both.

emphasis mine
Hmm, seems someones missed my paperwork to promote me to Major, or screwed up my Level IV paperwork.  That and the 5 others in FLWG that are Captains with Level IV.

I took SOS and went to RSC. Why, just for giggles. I am currently enrolled in ACSC but I just dont have the time to commit to it. As a down fall of a previous CAP/CC you now have to do PME tests on base, etc and with gas the way it is I would just take a week off and do R/NSC.

Quote from: Tim Medeiros on August 31, 2008, 01:24:43 AM

Quote from: RiverAux on August 30, 2008, 09:48:59 PM
As I said, we're talking about someone working on their Level IV so they are a Major and therefore eligible to take both.

emphasis mine
Hmm, seems someones missed my paperwork to promote me to Major, or screwed up my Level IV paperwork.  That and the 5 others in FLWG that are Captains with Level IV.

Or you don't have the time in grade to promote yet.... the small percentage of people who have achieved PD levels beyond their rank aren't really worth mentioning in general conversation.  Somehow AlphaSig jumped to the conclusion that there was a 1st Lt trying to game the system instead of the more reasonable assumption that someone working to complete Level IV is a Major already. 

OK, I stand corrected... sorry for the misunderstanding. I do agree that AF officer PME should be taken in order; SOS -> ACSC -> AWC.

Like Capt Medeiros, all I require to complete Level IV is RSC or - if I'm not bogged down in work - complete SOS via correspondence. I have to wait until July 2010 before pinning on golden bottlecaps and wear farts and darts on the bus driver cap.

I did RSC (77) before SOS (81); and ACSC (82) before NSC (83); and then, finally, AWC (05).

My personal feeling is that you should attempt to do them all.  SOS/ACSC/AWC gave me a vast knowledge on how the AF worked and where it fit into the grand defense scheme.  It has also helped tremendously in my non-CAP jobs (Army SNCO during the first two, defense contractor on the last).

The CAP courses did not teach me anything new, per se, but the networking was invaluable.

Personally I would devote my time to finishing my CAP courses before AF unless you use them in place of the RSC,NSC, or such. It would be a hassle to take the ACSC for me because the closest base is 90 miles away and I would rather spend a week at NSC than traveling everytime I had to take a test.

90 miles each way (x2) 7 exams (x7)  = 1260 miles Ouch >:D

Some guard facilities have test centers, if none of those..

There are other options. (from CAPR 50-4

Quotea. Military base testing center. If you plan to test at a military base contact that base testing office to ensure an e-exam is available before scheduling the exam.
b. Under the supervision of a CAP-USAF state director or an Air Force reservist.
c. Under the supervision of two CAP members who have been approved in advance by the CAP-USAF state director.

If you're traveling just to take the exams, it's a big hit. If you can add other tasks, trips, business, etc, it makes it a lot less painful.

Shopping trip/fancy dinner with your SO afterward may help ease the pain as well.

I'm one of those "small percentage "not worth mentioning" I guess. Got my Level IV early in my Captain days and still have months to go til Major (or til I can take ACSC). I've had all the requirements for Level V done except this one since the day I completed SOS and got my Level IV. With that said, I only get two weeks vacation a year and I am NOT going to spend one of them at RSC or NSC. I'm sure it's great, but family comes first. I'll enroll in ACSC as soon as I can on May 1st. :)

Don't know if this is currently true but I was informed last year that a pre req of enrolling in ACSC or AWC is prior completion of SOS or another Company grade military leadership course (though I see from prior posts here that this wasn't the case back in the 1980's)

Remember, taking SOS/ACSC or the Naval Courses can lead to a Masters Degree.
Better yet, they are "free"

I know it is required of military personnel, but I don't know that it is required of CAP members. It's probably worth checking out with ACSC/AWC to find out for sure.

I completed SOS last year.

I have taken SOS and am Taking ACSC.  both are usefull college level leadership courses, perhaps a little too specific to AF universe for awsome applicaton in CAP but that is what you get when you don't have your own programs and use some elses.

You will find the same thing in any management training program if it is not your management training program.

V/R
LT J.

About how much time does it take to complete SOS?  I realize you have a year (+ 6 month extension), but I don't plan on taking the max amount of time.  How often did you need to study?  How long are the tests?  How does it compare to ECI-13?

SOS takes longer than AFIADL-13.  I completed it in five months, but I took the old Course 28.  The current generation (Course 20) is probably comparable in length, although there are fewer tests.

I studied almost every day, especially towards the end when I was anxious to complete it.  Studying 3-4 times a week, it will probably take 6-8 months.

After doing some checking, it seems that the SOS courses are now reviewed online and that the exams are also done online (off the Maxwell/AU/ECI/C3C4 website)

So... looks like only one base visit for SOS.
(to get entered into the database at the education office)