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New NCSA?

Started by CadetProgramGuy, September 19, 2007, 10:47:51 PM

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cnitas

Ned, I think we are in complete agreement.

I as a CP guy myself find that I am 'used up' at the squadron level.  I would love to spend all summer helping at various NCSAs, and/or putting on new activities, but alas I have a job and a family who sometimes want to spend time with me   :-\

But this was why I jumped in initially, if there is an NCSA in danger of failing because of a single dedicated member, we need to shift some load because eventually, everyone 'falls out' for some reason.


Mark A. Piersall, Lt Col, CAP
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

jimmydeanno

Quote from: cnitas on January 23, 2008, 08:16:11 PM
but alas I have a job and a family who sometimes want to spend time with me   :-\

Don't you hate it when they get in the way  :P
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

SJFedor

Quote from: sjtrupp on January 23, 2008, 06:39:52 PM
How about bringing back the old (before my time) FAA FC? Hold it in OKC and not only include Traffic Controllers, but bring in NTSB investigators and everything else that the FAA does. 

NTSB isn't part of the FAA. They're a separare, non-regulatory agency.

But actually, considering what a crunch the FAA says they're in for controllers, that would be a very good 2 week course to hold. Anyone friends w/ the current FAA Administrator?

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

starhawk

I think that it should be either a SAR survival school, where you get a rating to stay out longer than 24 hours, or a specialty tracking school to be able to obtain ratings in tracking.
Alex Riendeau, C/SSgt, CAP
First Sergeant
Inter-State Composite Squadron
Washington Wing

sarmed1

QuoteI'd like to see a wilderness survival course.  Something that includes all of the shelter building, wild edibles, water procurement, minimal supply techniques beyond what might be taught at some of the SAR academies we have now
.

HMRS runs what is  typically a 4th year returning student course, known as Echo Sqaudron or Special Advancved.  In part its designed to prepare students for completion of the Expert Ranger Rating.   Regardless of your  opinion about the Ranger program aside, it covers those type of requirements that people are looking for in a wilderness survival course.  They typically spend most of the 9 days in the field at all times of the day regardless of weather conditions (a little safety factor is applied during lightning)

QuoteSUMMARY OF ECHO COURSE CURRICULUM

NAVIGATION
#610 - TOPOGRAPHICAL MAP INTERPRETATIONS
#611 – LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE
#612 – UNIVERSAL TRANSVERSE MERCATOR (UTM)
#613 – CAP GRID SYSTEM OVERVIEW
#614 – LAND NAVIGATION COMPASS WORK (BOTH NIGHT AND DAY)
#615 – AERONAUTICAL NAVIGATION
#616 – FIELD EXPEDIENT DIRECTION FINDING
#616B – NATURAL DIRECTION DETERMINATION
#616C – TIME DETERMINATION

WOODSMANSHIP
#620 – FOOD PROCUREMENT
#621 – WATER PROCUREMENT
#622 – SWIMMING
#623 – EDIBLES
#624 – CUTTING TOOLS
#625 – FIRE BUILDING
#626 – SHELTER BUILDING

LEADERSHIP AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT
#630 – CLASS PREPARATION

MEDICAL AND SAFETY
#640 – INJURY PREVENTION AND FIRST AID
#641 – MAKESHIFT LITTERS AND PATIENT TRANSPORT TECHNIQUES
#642 – FIREARM SAFETY

#650 – EQUIPMENT

#660 - COMMUNICATION

RESCUE
#670 – ROPE WORK
#672 – RAPPELLING
#673 – ROCK CLIMBING

SEARCH
#680 – TRAIL MARKING
#681 – SIGNALING

ADMINISTRATION, HISTORY, ORIENTATIONS, EVALUATIONS, TESTS
#690 – HISTORY AND VISION OF ECHO SQUADRON
#691 – RANGER WRITTEN TEST
#692 – NAVIGATION TEST
FIELD EXERCISE AND PRACTICUMS
#695 – SCENARIOS AND TEAM/SKILL BUILDING COURSES

The web site says Ranger First Class is a prerequisite, but I am sure that an out of stater that is an experienced SAR type, ie GTM1/GTL or GBD could request consideration.  If you have questions let me know & I'll see what I can find out (the wife ran the course for quite a number of years)

The Evergreen school was initaly billed as another HMRS exportable training program.  Basically HMRS run not at HMRS.  Same curriculum, same staff trainnig requirements etc etc.  TP wanted to spread Ranger Schools out to all Regions, dont know how that plan or things at Evergreen will play out now that he is no longer in the hot seat. (as a note the current interm commander attended the school this past year and was also seemingly impressed)

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

BillB

#45
The biggestproblem with adding new NCSA is transportation. The old activities relied on USAF airlift support which is no longer available. In the Southeast Region there used to be an exchange program between Wings for males and a second for females. In the exchage cadet from X Wing would be airlifted to Y Wing to visit aerospace activities or in the case of the females visit other squadrons and reside with host families. Sort of a mini IACE.
Now transportation costs limit the location of activities such as FAAOC and others. It might be possible for Wings or Regions to add new activities Florida, Alabama, California for example could add  an activity at the NASA operations in those Wings. Probably the various airlines could restart the Stewardess schools. (OK so Stewardess is politically incorrect)
Finances limit the transportation to Blue Beret or HMRS for many cadets. So until USAF finds it has a surplus of C-130's just sitting around, the chances of airlift to new NCSA is rather remote. Where support is lacking, is not the CAP Corporate side, but rather the CAP-USAF side of the house. There are probably many activities that could be restarted, but it would require the National Cadet Committee and HQ CAP-USAF to See what is possible. For example, cadets from Alabama, Mississippi, Florida and Georgia could visit Tyndall AFB to see how the Rescue center operates. FAA Centers throughout the country could operate a mini FAAOC. But to get any activity, the National Cadet Committee on the Corportae side of the house needs to coordinate with the CAP-USAF side to find possible regional or Wing activities. From what I see the National Cadet Committee does very little and appears to be ineffective. Input from the National Cadet Advisory Council would be of help, but again little is done since it only meets once or twice a year.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

floridacyclist

Quote from: Ned on January 23, 2008, 05:35:41 AM
Travel costs are certainly an important issue.  Cadets receive full airfare for Cadet Officer School, but most activities require the cadets (or their wings and units) to cover transportation costs.  Transportation costs are one of the reasons the activities are spread so far apart, to maximise the possibility that an activity can be relatively local for most cadets.

We are organizing a Greyhound Buspool to Hawk Mountain this year. For $149 round-trip, you get on Greyhound at a designated time in Tallahassee, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, or points in between and all bus routes converge in Jacksonville with all personnel transferring to the same bus for hte remained of the trip. Coming home is the reverse. It only takes a day to get up or back and you can sleep on the bus. Seems like a decent way to beat the cost of flying (over $500.00 from Tallahassee) while not having to worry about falling asleep at the wheel on the way home.

I think Greyhound is an often-overlooked mode that can offer some real savings over flying or even driving as expensive as gas is getting.

Since my family will be in the middle of our bike ride when it's time for Hawk, we will stop at my father-in-law's house in SW MI, drive back to Hawk in his car or take the bus (cheaper for the 4 of us to just drive), do Hawk, drive back to SW MI, ride our bikes to Oshkosk, do Blue Beret, and then carry on West.
Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
Wearer of many hats, master of none (but senior-rated in two)
www.tallahasseecap.org
www.rideforfatherhood.org

sarmed1

In the scheme of an activity such as HMRS, that can get very gear dependant, more so if you are in a staff type postion, the bus is a very good idea when you are looking at volume and types of gear.  Less chance of having to ditch the flamable/explosive type items one may keep in their gerar when riding the bus.

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

sarmed1

as an update (I cant seem to get into edit)
The other big part of the "Echo" program that people usually stumble on is rope rescue related skills (come on its Hawk Mountain)
So if you are coming from outside PA and are interested in the course it woudl be of benefit to have more than the CAP GTM knowledge of rope work.   ie something that meets the NFPA 1670 requirement for operations level training.
(gear and equipemnt, ropes and knots, rappeling, belaying, self rescue, pick off, basic rigging and hauling systems are the skills/areas that come to mind)

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

nesagsar

I think that the Illinois Comm/Sec program from 2004 (I dont know if they still do it) would be a good NCSA if expanded.


jpnelson82

Hmmm, what new NCSA would I make if I could..... assuming no hang-ups about TS clearances an all......

Military Intelligence FC (AIA, DIA, NRO) - One week learning about IMINT, analysis, MASINT, HUMINT, and other cool spy stuff

DARPA - learn about UCAVs, UGVs and other cool stuff that the cadets who decide to join the RM will be using eventually.

Area 51 familiarization course ;D

can't think of any more right now.
Captain Nelson, John P.
SWR-AZ-064 (senior)
SER-GA-116 (cadet)

Mitchell Award 43981
Earhart Award 10643
IACE 2000

CadetProgramGuy

It would be expensive, but I could see a First responder or EMT-B "crash" course done in 2-3 weeks.

Its 120 hours in IA for EMT - B
Not sure on FR, in a year we could add EMT - I (85)

Thoughts??

sarmed1

Wilderness First responder would be my vote (as thats the minimum rrecomed proposed under the the new FEMA resource typing for Land Search Teams) and its realitively easy...most bill out at 60-80 hours.

Having taught crash course EMT: bad idea......back in 2002ish it became mandatory for all USAF medical technicains to obtain and maintain NREMT-B cert.  We did a number of courses, by the time I was on board they were up to a 3 week class (the rest of the training group in my reserve wing said they were having dismal results with the 2 week), even in the 3 week we were having problems with some people (I'd say 2-3/10 failing either the written or practical on the first try) and these were people that had completed the course at one point in time.

expensive is not an issue....the program we teach thru at HMRS (AAOS/ECSI) offers a FR course at cost of books...so like $65.   They have no age restriction on their students, so thats only limited if cadets want certification by NREMT or their state if offered.

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

CadetProgramGuy

FR class done in 2 weeks......Its possible, tough, we would have to limit the classes to 30-40 students.

Couple questions.....

What are the National Registry minimums for the FR?

are ride time and clinicals applicable to the First Responder?

CadetProgramGuy

As far as Age limits I cannot find any.  HOWEVER... what would be a good age for cadets to start to learn advanced medical curriclum?

I think 16 to 18 would be a good start.  Thoughts?

sarmed1

HMRS medic course includes advanced wilderness first aid course (36 hours) plus the extra field sanitation information we include, a "field internship" as part of the 3 day survival hike.  All in the 9 day course (or 7 1/2 day..day one starts a 1300 and day 9 is graduation)  Given they are long days...usually 10-12 hours of class time.

some states limit certification age to 18...Pa is one of a few that allows FR and EMT at 16.  NREMT limits EMT's to 18, no age is in place for FR that I can find.  I have not found anything on "clinical" hours for first responders, the NREMT site states a course that meets the DOT curriculum, the DOT curriculum says clinical as required by the state  (paraphrase)

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

CadetProgramGuy

I'll get ahold of the local FR class and see what they say about clinical time.

Gunner C

In a perfect world we could bring back the Jet Orientation Course.  Two weeks long with one week dedicated to flying in (then) T-33s.  Those days are long gone. :::::SIGH:::::

GC

DC

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 20, 2008, 03:32:44 AM
FR class done in 2 weeks......Its possible, tough, we would have to limit the classes to 30-40 students.

Couple questions.....

What are the National Registry minimums for the FR?

are ride time and clinicals applicable to the First Responder?
The standard FR course is 40 hours, that could be done in a week. Say do 5 days of training, 3 days of hands on practice and a day for testing? I did my FR over the course of a month, two hours on Tuesday and Thursday and six hours on Saturday for four weeks.

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 20, 2008, 04:45:47 AM
As far as Age limits I cannot find any.  HOWEVER... what would be a good age for cadets to start to learn advanced medical curriclum?

I think 16 to 18 would be a good start.  Thoughts?
I think 15, with prior First Aid and CPR certification. At the 16 to 18 range you can start going for EMT. FR is a great way to bridge the gap between First Aid and certrifications that actually require licensing. I think a 15 year old should be able to grasp the course material and be able to competently apply it.

CadetProgramGuy

Ok, first responders course....

60 hours of classroom, No clinical or Ride time.

I talked to an instructor of the FR class and he indicated that it was just as rough as the EMT - Basic without worrying about transport.

He also indicated that 2 weeks for the course was pushing the limits of learning, but was possible.

Also you would have to go back to your home state to take the practicals, then the national exam.

We coule set this up is several ways.  We would have to limit class size and identify prereq's for the course.

Then.....we know there will be attrition, what do we do with those that "fail" the course through exam failures?