Screen your members carefully

[NIN]

Now that I'm heavily involved in the personnel aspect of CAP (oh boy!) even more than when I was a squadron commander, these things come up from time to time.

Several years back (circa 2012, before I unretired), there was a thread here about verifying people's claims  about military service when they're in CAP (ie. using DD-214, retirement orders, etc). 

At the time in that thread, I made mention of a former CAP member from my wing.  A guy who'd gotten busted for arson and theft of government equipment, and, after he was thrown out of the Air National Guard and lost his firefighter job, quit CAP (or was non-renewed.. don't recall) and moved away.   

Published on July 18, 2001, Article 1 of 1 found.
Plea deal for firefighter implicated in fires
Author:    NANCY MEERSMAN Union Leader Staff
Publication: New Hampshire Union Leader (Manchester, NH)
Page Number: b1
A Manchester firefighter charged with setting fires at the New Boston satellite tracking station and possessing radios stolen from military bases avoided jail yesterday by pleading guilty to a single felony.
Charles C. Kaczmarczyck, 47, 64 Bog Brook Road, New Boston, was sentenced in Hillsborough County Superior Court to one year in the county jail, suspended. He admitted possessing two hand-held radios that belonged to the New Hampshire Air National Guard's air refueling unit at [...]

After he moved to a new place, his "tales of derring-do" got even more fanciful than they were before: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16176.msg292672#msg292672 (unfortunately the WBIR link in the original post suffers from link rot, so its dead, but here's another link from 2008:  http://tnjn.org/2008/apr/09/special-operations-air-force-c/)

So, wait, you're an E-7, get reduced and forcibly retired when its found that you're stealing from the Guard, and several years later you're representing yourself as an E-9?

The guy was kind of a dirtbag when he was in CAP, always telling stories to cadets about his exploits in the air over South Vietnam and Cambodia.  Anybody with any knowledge of the circumstances (ie. anybody over about the age of 35 at the time) would be like "Wait, wut?"   The stories were never very consistent, there would be little details that would change in the retelling, and nobody ever called him on it, and if they did, he'd probably attribute it to him being "classified" or similar malarky. 

The question, of course, is "why" would a guy like this lie about service?  He was an E-7 for crying out loud.  Its not like was some dirtbag Airman.  Ain't being a MSgt good enough?

So after several years of him claiming to have been a retired Chief (not only to unsuspecting college students, but the Spectre Association, a group of AF AC-130 vets), things came unglued.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=31748
http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120810/NEWS03/708109959

Then, whoops, its not just VA & SS benefit fraud: http://www.thedailytimes.com/news/charles-kaczmarczyk-pleads-guilty-to-murder/article_36e3afea-05ee-5e27-8fd3-6f19ec4de11f.html

Oh, snap.

Dateline NBC did a piece this last week on the whole thing: http://www.inquisitr.com/3616395/robert-bob-mcclancy-dateline-nbc-ex-military-man-murdered-in-fake-ptsd-suicide-by-wife-martha-ann-kaczmarczyk-and-her-lover-chuck-in-tennessee/

So when one of your members says "Hey, that new Major was telling me and the cadets all about that time in Tora Bora that he was involved in were chasing bin Laden thru the caves and across the Pakistan frontier..." and you think "Thats odd, I didn't even think he was in the military" or "Wait a second, didn't he say he was a cook in the Air Force before?"  you should really follow up on those claims. 

When people are making fanciful claims and you know they're bogus, call them on it.  Ask the hard questions.  Don't let it continue. The organization doesn't need to be tainted by lying dirtbags like this.  If you're a unit commander, pay attention to your people and what they're saying and doing around your members.

And if you're not sure, ask people in your chain of command who are in a position to be sure.

And to think I had dinner at this guy's house. Several times.

[grunt82abn]

All I can say is "WOW"

[NIN]

All I can say is "WOW"

Everybody who knew they guy says the same thing.

[grunt82abn]

I would also have used a few other words that are highly banned from use here on CAP Talk.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Google is your friend. Any new people, especially if they set off any red flags in your mind, check your sign in sheet for their name and do a google search!

[EMT-83]

Trust your instincts. If your gut tells you something is wrong, don't ignore it.

I think we get so hung up on not wanting to offend someone that we avoid having the difficult adult conversation that really needs to take place. I've shown a few people the door after an interview with the membership committee. It's your squadron and your cadets: choose wisely.

[Holding Pattern]

So I've yet to need to process a new member with prior service paperwork... but doesn't that get checked on somewhere in the chain?

[Eclipse]

... but doesn't that get checked on somewhere in the chain?

How would they vet someone embellishing or outright lying about his military history if he has no criminal record?
Unit CC's don't want to "offend" the guy with Trident and a tab, so they don't check, get produced phony
docs, or don't even know better themselves.

This again raises the issue of the empty shirts.  CAP has hundreds, probably thousands of card-carrying "active"
members no one has heard from in a decade, assuming anyone in the squadron has ever met them.  Who knows
what these people are up to in CAP's name, yet this situation is allowed to continue year after year to no one's benefit.

[PHall]

So I've yet to need to process a new member with prior service paperwork... but doesn't that get checked on somewhere in the chain?

It gets checked by the Unit Commander who signs the Membership App.
Just one of the reasons that Membership Committees are now required.

[NIN]

So I've yet to need to process a new member with prior service paperwork... but doesn't that get checked on somewhere in the chain?

You (the unit "you") are the first line of defense.

There's no magical "FakeBusters" at NHQ with magic wands.

Guy comes to CAP, claims prior service, wants to wear his SF tab, Trident and Combat Control beret.

The answer isn't "Oh, sure, go ahead."

The answer is "You're qualified in all that? We should probably get a copy of those orders in your records so nobody throws a beef later."

Guy joins CAP, totally on the up and up, he's in the Guard too, prior active duty. His aircrew wings and such all line up. Groovy.

You come around the corner into the classroom one night and 3/4 of your cadets are staring in rapt attention as he says "..and I had bin Laden RIGHT IN MY SIGHTS until this Navy SEAL showed up.."

The statement is "Lieutenant, we need to have a talk. Sooner rather than later."
not "WOW! NO [redacted]?"

or

"Hey, sir, the new LT was just regaling the troops on how he singlehandedly rescued Jessica Lynch, captured Saddam Hussein and took out Muammar Gaddafi. ON THE SAME MISSION.  We probably need to have a talk with him and supervise him a little more closely, dontchathink?"

[Holding Pattern]

... but doesn't that get checked on somewhere in the chain?

How would they vet someone embellishing or outright lying about his military history if he has no criminal record?
Unit CC's don't want to "offend" the guy with Trident and a tab, so they don't check, get produced phony
docs, or don't even know better themselves.

I always assumed somewhere between the fingerprinting and the approval the prior records where actually verified against their parent service. Silly me...

[PHall]

... but doesn't that get checked on somewhere in the chain?

How would they vet someone embellishing or outright lying about his military history if he has no criminal record?
Unit CC's don't want to "offend" the guy with Trident and a tab, so they don't check, get produced phony
docs, or don't even know better themselves.

I always assumed somewhere between the fingerprinting and the approval the prior records where actually verified against their parent service. Silly me...

You do know what ASSUME means, right?

[ZigZag911]

I'm at the point that, were I still commanding a unit, I'd request DD-214 or similar documentation from prospective members who said they were current or prior military.

Given that regulations permit the wear of some awards and insignia from military service, as well as advanced CAP grade in certain cases, this seems like efficient record keeping on the unit's part.

I'm seriously starting to wonder, on a tangential note, if we should accept new seniors before their background check is done.

[Eclipse]

if we should accept new seniors before their background check is done.

If anyone asked me, I'd say "no", but deity forbid CAP actually set a standard.

As I've mentioned before, it is currently possible to join and fly CAP airplanes w/o a L1 or even a background check being completed.
It is also possible, and in fact not uncommon, to fly cadets as an O-ride pilot w/o a Level 1, though CPPT has to be completed.  I can't say
whether a BGC being completed would be a pinch point.  I know it is in my squadron, but I'd hazard elsewhere it has been ignored.

Why there aren't these simple checks in today's world is beyond me.

[NIN]

If you knew how many times background checks don't come back from the FBI (not even "positive" or "negative" but just ... dead air) and have to be followed up on, you'd probably not want to subject you new members to having to twiddle their thumbs for that duration.

[USACAP]

Man, this is just a no-brainer to me.
Asking for a DD214 (or more) is not unreasonable.
Someone who was prior .Mil may be eligible to wear .Mil awards or get advanced CAP rank.

I'd produce proof of whatever for whoever in CAP asked through my chain. Any reasonable veteran would.
Joining an org like CAP, no one should be shy about producing documentation of their past life.

[PHall]

Man, this is just a no-brainer to me.
Asking for a DD214 (or more) is not unreasonable.
Someone who was prior .Mil may be eligible to wear .Mil awards or get advanced CAP rank.

I'd produce proof of whatever for whoever in CAP asked through my chain. Any reasonable veteran would.
Joining an org like CAP, no one should be shy about producing documentation of their past life.

You would be surprised.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Man, this is just a no-brainer to me.
Asking for a DD214 (or more) is not unreasonable.
Someone who was prior .Mil may be eligible to wear .Mil awards or get advanced CAP rank.

I'd produce proof of whatever for whoever in CAP asked through my chain. Any reasonable veteran would.
Joining an org like CAP, no one should be shy about producing documentation of their past life.

Well, the UK military doesn't issue a document overly similar to a DD214 but, during my joining process, I was quietly asked if I could produce something similar.

No problem.  First page of my Record of Service.  Copied, notarized, presented.  On file, done.

It doesn't matter as the service doesn't count towards anything in CAP, it was simply someone doing proper due diligence.   

Like Eclipse said, why this isn't normal is beyond me.  I would accept a new employee in my company until we'd done the relevant reference and background checks.

[THRAWN]

Man, this is just a no-brainer to me.
Asking for a DD214 (or more) is not unreasonable.
Someone who was prior .Mil may be eligible to wear .Mil awards or get advanced CAP rank.

I'd produce proof of whatever for whoever in CAP asked through my chain. Any reasonable veteran would.
Joining an org like CAP, no one should be shy about producing documentation of their past life.

But, but, but it's classified! All of my records are sealed! I was in the G-14 classified 22nd Marine Special Forces and all of my records were burned in the fire...

Even if they do provide docs, they need to be reviewed carefully. I'm pretty sure I related this before, but I'll give the Reader's Digest version. Had a guy show up to a wing level activity that everybody kept raving about. Former SF. Former LE K9 SAR guy from California. Former this. Expert that. When he submitted his supporting documentation from the "US Army School of INFINTRY" and was called on it, he took his dog and expertly disappeared into the night. Infintry.....ugh....

[Eclipse]

If you knew how many times background checks don't come back from the FBI (not even "positive" or "negative" but just ... dead air) and have to be followed up on, you'd probably not want to subject you new members to having to twiddle their thumbs for that duration.

I do know - 2 of 3 this summer had issues, both months in solving with zero pro-action by NHQ.

That doesn't change the fact that we should not be letting people borrow a $350k asset with little more
then a handshake and no idea who they might be (or not be).

Regardless of what they do with their thumbs that's a risk I'm not willing to take even if NHQ is, not
as long as my name or click has to approve the participation.