Wing patches

[PHall]

Just who is the CAP/CCC? Have never seen this office symbol before.

[Paul Creed III]

Just who is the CAP/CCC? Have never seen this office symbol before.

Command Chief Master Sergeant, as per CAPP 1-2.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/about/governance/cap-commandteam/chief-master-sgt-todd-h-parsons

[PHall]

This brings question number two. Why is the Command Chief telling people that we had Vanguard order more material?
That would seem to be not in his lane.

BTW I just spent the weekend with the Chief at the CAWG Cadet Programs Conference. He was surprised to see another Senior NCO there, me.

[Shuman 14]

Don't have ABUs, will never have ABUs and have found that a blue polo, grey tac-pants and black combat boots work for almost any CAP field problem/exercise I've been on.

When OCPs become authorized, I have several sets that I kept all Velcro so I can transfer tapes and rank between USAR duty and CAP duty.

Sitting on this issue silly, somebody just make the call and even if they put a ten-year wear-out period on ABUs there will be people showing up in OCPs the first day it is authorized. Just saying.

[PHall]

Don't have ABUs, will never have ABUs and have found that a blue polo, grey tac-pants and black combat boots work for almost any CAP field problem/exercise I've been on.

When OCPs become authorized, I have several sets that I kept all Velcro so I can transfer tapes and rank between USAR duty and CAP duty.

Sitting on this issue silly, somebody just make the call and even if they put a ten-year wear-out period on ABUs there will be people showing up in OCPs the first day it is authorized. Just saying.

You do realize that it's not CAP's call, right? CAP can request that the Commander CAP-USAF put in the request for us and to run it up the chain.
In the end this could be a SecAF decision like going to ABU's was.

[Shuman 14]

You do realize that it's not CAP's call, right? CAP can request that the Commander CAP-USAF put in the request for us and to run it up the chain.
In the end this could be a SecAF decision like going to ABU's was.

So? I got it, it's a hard call to ask for something from higher, the call still needs to be made.

I got it when the USAF was still using ABUs and OCP supplies were limited, but that time is passed. Surplus ABUs have all but dried up. Continuing to have Vanguard produce the pattern will eventually become cost prohibitive, as they will be the sole monopoly on production and will be able to raise costs whenever they feel like it.

OCPs are now plentiful, being produced by many companies besides Vanguard, and provide a lower cost to obtain than ABUs.

It's silly to wait to ask, should have been asked a year ago.

My question to you is, why do you think the Air Force would say no? What over-arching reason could the Air Force to have to deny the request? The request is reasonable, do-able and there is a strong argument to say NECESSARY as well.





 

[PHall]

You do realize that it's not CAP's call, right? CAP can request that the Commander CAP-USAF put in the request for us and to run it up the chain.
In the end this could be a SecAF decision like going to ABU's was.

So? I got it, it's a hard call to ask for something from higher, the call still needs to be made.

I got it when the USAF was still using ABUs and OCP supplies were limited, but that time is passed. Surplus ABUs have all but dried up. Continuing to have Vanguard produce the pattern will eventually become cost prohibitive, as they will be the sole monopoly on production and will be able to raise costs whenever they feel like it.

OCPs are now plentiful, being produced by many companies besides Vanguard, and provide a lower cost to obtain than ABUs.

It's silly to wait to ask, should have been asked a year ago.

My question to you is, why do you think the Air Force would say no? What over-arching reason could the Air Force to have to deny the request? The request is reasonable, do-able and there is a strong argument to say NECESSARY as well.





 

Well if you listen to some folks we don't need ABU's or OCP's at all...

[Shuman 14]

Well if you listen to some folks we don't need ABU's or OCP's at all...

Then make that call.

I would submit to you, that nearly all CAP missions can be completed in a Polo shirt, tac-pants and hiking boots.

Suitable for an office.

Suitable for a CP/ICP/TOC.

You can fly in it.

You can do GT work in it. If you're worried about scratches on your arms, wear the long sleeve version.

But you might lose the draw of cadets that want that Air Force uniform (some seniors too).

You can't make everyone happy, so stop trying.

But if we are going to have an Air Force style uniform, let's not wear an obsolete one.

The simple solution is to add a clause chapter in 39-1 that reads something to the effect that when a USAF uniform article is abolished or replaced, CAP has a five year wear out date for the abolished or replaced item and then they must purchase the USAF approved replacement item and/or stop wearing the abolished item altogether. Unless otherwise directed by the USAF itself.

For example, the USAF replaced the ABU with the OCP. the last day that they could wear ABUs was 01APR2021. Which means CAP members, if this clause was in place, would have until 01APR2026 to wear ABUs and after that date they must wear OCPs.

That also means, effective 02APR2021, CAP members could wear OCPs if they chose to.

Now, we know at the start, OCPs had shortages, so the Air Force could have issued a directive, CAP will not begin their transition to OCPs until 01APR2022 in order to allow existing stocks of OCPs to make it to US Army, Air Force and Space Force personnel first.

Another example would be USAF Dress Whites, abolished on 01MAR1993. CAP personnel that had them could continue to wear them until 01MAR1998 but after that no more.

A simple clause chapter would save so much grief and then we wouldn't need to keep going back to the Air Force to ask for a change, the change would be already approved by them when the clause chapter was added to 39-1.

[SierraOneThree]

Not that we're on topic anymore, but I'm just excited for black boots with OCPs when it eventually does happen.

Because "cadets have to shine their shoes" and "it's cheap."

/s

[SarDragon]

Not that we're on topic anymore, but I'm just excited for black boots with OCPs when it eventually does happen.

Because "cadets have to shine their shoes" and "it's cheap."

/s

Shouldn't the seniors be shining their shoes, too? Setting an example and avoiding a double standard? I keep my black boots shined to the standard defined in the reg.

[heliodoc]

Correct

I still shine my last issue of 2 boots per year when I was a WG10 mechanic

I can safely say that the old saying boot shining builds discipline is outmoded

Todays cadets maybe lacking discipline in some areas...but they are our CyberPatriot gang and that could be their discipline

It might be time that CAP and the USAF come to an agreement that it takes more than black boots to delineate the organizations

Common sense isn't so common sense in AD2023..CAP truly needs to m=be modernizing in more ways than uniforms...like training replacement for Lpers Nationwide, updated taskbooks for the whole system...something more important than boots