Got a CAP order in today. For the most part, everything was fine.
However, for the not most part, I discovered that the nametapes are just a little bit taller than the CAP tapes. The CAP tapes are an inch high, while the nametapes are about 1 1/8 ".
Pretty much the options are: cut the back around the embroidery, fold the tapes to the 1 inch height, OR just sew them on, as is, and don't worry about it.
Kinda looking for a consensus here. What would most people here do?
Dunno what most people would do but this people is now worried about their new name tapes due someday hopefully soon.
I guess I'll probably rip them off my old uniforms if they're wrong.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2021, 01:55:07 AMGot a CAP order in today. For the most part, everything was fine.
However, for the not most part, I discovered that the nametapes are just a little bit taller than the CAP tapes. The CAP tapes are an inch high, while the nametapes are about 1 1/8 ".
Pretty much the options are: cut the back around the embroidery, fold the tapes to the 1 inch height, OR just sew them on, as is, and don't worry about it.
Kinda looking for a consensus here. What would most people here do?
Call them, and complain.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 05:14:37 AMCall them, and complain.
OK, so there's a third option. Might just do that anyway.
My wife left an old hair straightener, I'm gonna try something. Will let y'all know if it works. Might be able to loosen up the stuff in there, and repress it, too.
1 - return them.
2 - don't buy tapes from Vanguard.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 05:14:37 AMPretty much the options are: cut the back around the embroidery, fold the tapes to the 1 inch height, OR just sew them on, as is, and don't worry about it.
After my experience with someone giving an online presentation wearing the CSU, I'm thinking 1/8" is something I 'm not going to care about.
Besides, I have to change all of the insignia on the uniform anyway. Or given the above,. just keep wearing the ultramarine stuff.
The weird thing is that the raw name tape is made to spec, so the whole roll
is going to be wrong.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 05:14:37 AMQuote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2021, 01:55:07 AMGot a CAP order in today. For the most part, everything was fine.
However, for the not most part, I discovered that the nametapes are just a little bit taller than the CAP tapes. The CAP tapes are an inch high, while the nametapes are about 1 1/8 ".
Pretty much the options are: cut the back around the embroidery, fold the tapes to the 1 inch height, OR just sew them on, as is, and don't worry about it.
Kinda looking for a consensus here. What would most people here do?
Call them, and complain.
Absolutely do this. I was honestly surprised at how quickly they fixed some of my issues given some of the stories I've seen on captalk and elsewhere, but at least in the last few years they've been very quick on issue resolution.
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 04, 2021, 02:31:09 PMQuote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 05:14:37 AMPretty much the options are: cut the back around the embroidery, fold the tapes to the 1 inch height, OR just sew them on, as is, and don't worry about it.
After my experience with someone giving an online presentation wearing the CSU, I'm thinking 1/8" is something I 'm not going to care about.
Besides, I have to change all of the insignia on the uniform anyway. Or given the above,. just keep wearing the ultramarine stuff.
PHASE OUT DATES FOR UNIFORM ITEMS
Elimination of the Ultramarine background on the working uniforms - 15 June 2021
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 08:26:47 PMBesides, I have to change all of the insignia on the uniform anyway. Or given the above,. just keep wearing the ultramarine sQuote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 08:26:47 PMQuote from: Dwight Dutton on June 04, 2021, 02:31:09 PMQuote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2021, 05:14:37 AMPretty much the options are: cut the back around the embroidery, fold the tapes to the 1 inch height, OR just sew them on, as is, and don't worry about it.
After my experience with someone giving an online presentation wearing the CSU, I'm thinking 1/8" is something I 'm not going to care about.
Besides, I have to change all of the insignia on the uniform anyway. Or given the above,. just keep wearing the ultramarine stuff.
PHASE OUT DATES FOR UNIFORM ITEMS
Elimination of the Ultramarine background on the working uniforms - 15 June 2021
I think you missed the point.
Possibly so; the story of my life.
You seemed to imply that you would simply continue wearing the old insignia past the phase-out date.
So, I call Vanguard. They say they'll call me back.
The person goes and measures the difference between the CAP tapes, and the nametape stock. She says it's about an eighth inch difference between the stock, and that's "within tolerance."
Honestly, I'm disappointed. She also made a point of telling me that they're "the only ones allowed to make insignia for CAP."
This strikes me as a crappy attitude.
Got my own feelings, but curious as to other's thoughts.
They may be the only ones permitted to make things with "Civil Air Patrol" on them but I'm pretty sure they're not the only people permitted to make inch-dimension, silver-on-navy-blue name tapes.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 07, 2021, 10:44:13 PMSo, I call Vanguard. They say they'll call me back.
The person goes and measures the difference between the CAP tapes, and the nametape stock. She says it's about an eighth inch difference between the stock, and that's "within tolerance."
Honestly, I'm disappointed. She also made a point of telling me that they're "the only ones allowed to make insignia for CAP."
This strikes me as a crappy attitude.
Got my own feelings, but curious as to other's thoughts.
My thoughts are that I will be advising everyone NOT to buy any nametape other than the one that says "Civil Air Patrol" from Vanguard.
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on June 07, 2021, 11:04:39 PMThey may be the only ones permitted to make things with "Civil Air Patrol" on them but I'm pretty sure they're not the only people permitted to make inch-dimension, silver-on-navy-blue name tapes.
They aren't, and never have been.
The fact that she said that indicates they know they are not "within tolerance" and trying to
head off never selling another one.
New Guy set the machine wrong when they ran a 1000' roll in anticipation of the BDU retirement
and now they are stuck with them (which means they will try and stick the members).
Return them and dispute the charge.
Well, I just measured the stuff I got a while back, and they measured 1" and 1 1/16". Neither I, nor my wife, nor the person who sewed them on the uniforms (who may or may not see this post) noticed any difference when looking at the finished uniform. Granted, I have the BBDU, where it might be less noticeable, but it doesn't seem to be as big a deal as y'all are making it.
YMMV.
A 1/16" difference between tapes doesn't seem so bad when considering there was a time when almost everyone in CAP wore nametapes that had about twice that size difference.
Back in the day, The Bookstore sold CAP tapes that were woven on some weird machine using a hot-cut edge and embroidered border.
(http://www.mcchord.org/temp/nametapes.jpg)
They had two choices, "Machine Embroidered" or "Hand Embroidered". The former were substantially cheaper and are the ones you describe. The "Hand Embroidered" ones actually matched the nametape.
I had the machine embroidered ones, they were not even close to matching and nobody cared. Honestly if the tapes on both sides have the same 1/8" mistake it won't be noticeable
Back then they sold both the CAP and name tapes in machine embroided and hand embroided, and I made sure when I got them were either machine embroided or hand embroided. They always matched. If I got one hand embroided and the other machine embroided, they did not match. It would be common sense!
The prolblem with the tapes in the photo is not the type of embroidery. It is they have been washed repeatedly so they are faded. I would have changed them before they got to this stage.
Quote from: baronet68 on June 08, 2021, 01:06:14 AMA 1/16" difference between tapes doesn't seem so bad when considering there was a time when almost everyone in CAP wore nametapes that had about twice that size difference.
Back in the day, The Bookstore sold CAP tapes that were woven on some weird machine using a hot-cut edge and embroidered border.
(http://www.mcchord.org/temp/nametapes.jpg)
My understanding from a conversation BITD with The Bookstore was that the one on the right, with the
merrowed edge, was originally intended as a luggage or "other" tag, not a nametape (despite the indication
as such in the 2001 Catalog), and somehow found its way as a nametape.
Can't tell you how many of those I've corrected over the decades.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 08, 2021, 05:30:50 PMQuote from: baronet68 on June 08, 2021, 01:06:14 AMA 1/16" difference between tapes doesn't seem so bad when considering there was a time when almost everyone in CAP wore nametapes that had about twice that size difference.
Back in the day, The Bookstore sold CAP tapes that were woven on some weird machine using a hot-cut edge and embroidered border.
(http://www.mcchord.org/temp/nametapes.jpg)
My understanding from a conversation BITD with The Bookstore was that the one on the right, with the
merrowed edge, was originally intended as a luggage or "other" tag, not a nametape (despite the indication
as such in the 2001 Catalog), and somehow found its way as a nametape.
Can't tell you how many of those I've corrected over the decades.
What was it about those nametapes that you were "correcting"?
They were definitely sold exclusively as uniform nametapes back when I joined as a cadet back in the early 1980's and had been in use since the 70's. The back of the tapes was exposed woven material unsuitable as a stand-alone luggage tag... I'm sure someone, somewhere, may have sewn a pair of them together to make a luggage tag. They were popular at about 1/2 the price of the more the traditional 'military-style' embroidered Civil Air Patrol tapes.
(http://www.mcchord.org/temp/nametapes2.jpg)[/quote]
Quote from: baronet68 on June 08, 2021, 11:58:46 PMWhat was it about those nametapes that you were "correcting"?
That they were not nametapes, and even if they were, they don't match, so why would you wear it, 1/2 price or otherwise.
I think VG may have even indicated them as such when they inherited them from the Bookstore.
(and now my evening will be spent looking for that reference instead of building my Hackintosh).
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8894.20
Referenced as such back in 2009, which is probably around the time the old stock ran out and VG
removed it and the description as such.
(Granted referencing my own assertion is hardly authoritative)
And in the other direction's favor, the old Cadet field uniform cloth tape was merrowed, so it's
an honest mistake.
But it also makes sense as a finished edge like that can't be sized properly on larger or smaller shirts.
In the bookstore catalog, circa 2000, both the marrowed (item 599I) and non-marrowed (item 599K) CAP tapes are listed as "Blue Breast Badge - Cloth". The only difference between the two is that 599K's description states that it matches the name tapes (599H) and 599I's description states that it is a loom weave. Considering that 599I was $0.70 and 599K was $1.25 and considering that most new members wouldn't know the difference, I can certainly see why so many wound up being used.
Additionally, one of the example pictures for the BDUs in '97 version of 39-1 has the marrowed edge CAP tape on the uniform.
And they are all gone as of next week. Along with the plastic encased rank that Vanguard is still selling.
Had the same issue as OP. Called Vanguard today, was told that it was within the "military spec" tolerance of 1/8". /shrug
Ran across this today...
https://www.facebook.com/capnhq/posts/col-richard-l-griffith-chairman-of-civil-air-patrols-national-uniform-
committee-/968591416496480/
...which actually show the machine used for the tapes...
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0qcRxPQ/tapes.jpg)
The comments are pretty spicy, too.