CAPR 39-1, Page 154
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_039_001_5_Mar_2020__6EA485E9593C8.pdf
61 Days (15 June 2021):
Ultramarine nametapes
Woodland Battle Dress Uniform (BDU) and outer garments
Wear of items NBB and HMRS outside of the activity
108 Days (01 August 2021):
Plastic encased insignia FDU and CFDU (Replaced by dark blue cloth)
Black t-shirt w/ FDU
Leather nametag on the FDU and CFDU (Replaced by the cloth nametag)
Old-style USAF service coat for cadets
Looks like it's going to be a good Spring for my local Goodwill.
I think I still have one CFU with ultramarine tapes, and won't be able to wear
my onesie or the flight jacket unless I get some cloth nametags, which I'm probably
not going to bother with.
The amount of wasted money in my closet because of CAP's pursuit of affectation
over mission-focused uniforms is somewhat flabbergasting.
My bet is on this being largely academic for the majority of the membership,
with the curves going the way they are, the smart money is little to no activities
this Summer again. Wings are already starting to cancel stuff or push things back.
With that said, the leadership should start publishing regular reminders up to the
sundowns. It's going to be "Phase Bingo" nationwide the whole Summer, but even I am hopeful
that by August things will have reached a new steady state, whatever that winds up being.
Nothing says "Welcome back!! We've missed you." more than being caught off guard at your first meeting
in two years and being told the only uniforms you have aren't authorized anymore.
Visiting a couple of my units this week, presenting awards etc. and observing their local ops... and this topic has come up several times this month.
Nothing is making me smile behind my N95 more than seeing cadet staff, proudly wearing their (sometimes tight because of growth spurts) BDUs to the very last day. There are a dwindling number who are loving the "Old Salt" aspect of wearing BDUs... with all the ennui from their vast four years of cadet membership.
One of them asked me last night if I swapped over from the OD pickle suits to BDUs when it was first authorized. Oh heck yeah, because BDUs were such a massive improvement over ODs (but the slant pocket jungle ODs were better still down here in SER). The problem then (in 1990) was that with Desert Storm mobilizations some CAP folks were asked to defer the transition to allow mobilizing troops to get extra BDU sets (this, prior to sufficient desert camo).
The "nothin says lovin" comment is just a prelude to this coming winter when lack of affordable ABU outerwear will transition from being inconvenient and expensive to being a show stopper for much of CAP outdoor operations. Then is when, without woodland camo BDU field jackets, it will "suddenly" occur to CAP that we can't do things in USAF uniforms outdoors. Y'all remember when we pointed all this out, like four years ago?
V/r
Spam
So would now be a good time to ask when Civil Air Patrol will authorize OCP uniforms?
Asking for a friend. ;D
About a year after the Air Force decides to move on to the next uniform, if recent trends are anything to go by.
Quote from: jeders on April 16, 2021, 03:15:54 PMAbout a year after the Air Force decides to move on to the next uniform, if recent trends are anything to go by.
Sadly my Friend, I believe you are correct.
Yeah, I suppose that if I decide to un-Patron member myself, amost a whole new set of uniforms will be needed.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 15, 2021, 03:54:16 PMZERO Days (15 June 2021):
Ultramarine nametapes
Woodland Battle Dress Uniform (BDU) and outer garments
Wear of items NBB and HMRS outside of the activity
The king is dead...long live the king!
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHFWwLX4/bdu2000.jpg)
Well, I guess my wife will by happy when I clear these out of my closet. Had kept them just in case I "re-activated" but I guess there is now a new barrier to that.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 15, 2021, 03:54:16 PMCAPR 39-1, Page 154
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_039_001_5_Mar_2020__6EA485E9593C8.pdf
15 Days (01 August 2021):
Plastic encased insignia FDU and CFDU (Replaced by dark blue cloth)
Black t-shirt w/ FDU
Vanguard is still selling plastic encased insignia.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 15, 2021, 05:32:54 PMWell, I guess my wife will by happy when I clear these out of my closet. Had kept them just in case I "re-activated" but I guess there is now a new barrier to that.
Took a bunch of BDU's down to the surplus store a few months ago, got $60 for 7 sets (AF and CAP).
There is a market for this stuff.
Today, 15 Jun 2021, had a long-time member show up wearing his BDUs.
He somehow missed the memo because he was full of questions after I casually said, "I see you're wearing your BDUs one last time before they're retired at Midnight tonight!"
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 15, 2021, 10:50:17 PMQuote from: Eclipse on April 15, 2021, 03:54:16 PMCAPR 39-1, Page 154
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_039_001_5_Mar_2020__6EA485E9593C8.pdf
15 Days (01 August 2021):
Plastic encased insignia FDU and CFDU (Replaced by dark blue cloth)
Black t-shirt w/ FDU
Vanguard is still selling plastic encased insignia.
They will as long as they have stock and there's a chance people might buy them. Some people don't read memos and will wear them until they are called out on it, and others might collect them.
Quote from: Capt Thompson on June 16, 2021, 12:25:37 PMQuote from: Dwight Dutton on June 15, 2021, 10:50:17 PMQuote from: Eclipse on April 15, 2021, 03:54:16 PMCAPR 39-1, Page 154
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_039_001_5_Mar_2020__6EA485E9593C8.pdf
15 Days (01 August 2021):
Plastic encased insignia FDU and CFDU (Replaced by dark blue cloth)
Black t-shirt w/ FDU
Vanguard is still selling plastic encased insignia.
They will as long as they have stock and there's a chance people might buy them. Some people don't read memos and will wear them until they are called out on it, and others might collect them.
They just got a large restock in about a year ago after being out of stock for almost a year.
Betcha they'll try to make CAP buy all of them to recoup their costs.
Quote from: PHall on June 16, 2021, 08:15:10 PMThey just got a large restock in about a year ago after being out of stock for almost a year.
Betcha they'll try to make CAP buy all of them to recoup their costs.
Could be an urban legend, but I was told that if CAP changes or discontinues something, per the sole-source contract CAP has to purchase the remaining supply Vanguard has on-hand so that Vanguard doesn't loose out on the sales.
Quote from: Fubar on June 17, 2021, 02:53:37 AMCould be an urban legend, but I was told that if CAP changes or discontinues something, per the sole-source contract CAP has to purchase the remaining supply Vanguard has on-hand so that Vanguard doesn't loose out on the sales.
Can confirm at least in regards to Wing patches, so it's likely the case with everything.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 17, 2021, 03:08:49 AMQuote from: Fubar on June 17, 2021, 02:53:37 AMCould be an urban legend, but I was told that if CAP changes or discontinues something, per the sole-source contract CAP has to purchase the remaining supply Vanguard has on-hand so that Vanguard doesn't loose out on the sales.
Can confirm at least in regards to Wing patches, so it's likely the case with everything.
That's pretty common with most contracts.
If the contract was to produce x-amount of product with the expectation to sell said x-amount, and the client decides to change the product design, then the client is usually subject to buy the remaining inventory; the provider doesn't eat the cost out of kindness.
Quote from: PHall on June 16, 2021, 08:15:10 PMQuote from: Capt Thompson on June 16, 2021, 12:25:37 PMQuote from: Dwight Dutton on June 15, 2021, 10:50:17 PMQuote from: Eclipse on April 15, 2021, 03:54:16 PMCAPR 39-1, Page 154
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_039_001_5_Mar_2020__6EA485E9593C8.pdf
15 Days (01 August 2021):
Plastic encased insignia FDU and CFDU (Replaced by dark blue cloth)
Black t-shirt w/ FDU
Vanguard is still selling plastic encased insignia.
They will as long as they have stock and there's a chance people might buy them. Some people don't read memos and will wear them until they are called out on it, and others might collect them.
They just got a large restock in about a year ago after being out of stock for almost a year. Betcha they'll try to make CAP buy all of them to recoup their costs.
I wonder why CAP never went the "former items may be worn until no longer servicable" route.
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 17, 2021, 07:12:32 PMI wonder why CAP never went the "former items may be worn until no longer servicable" route.
You'd never flush the old stuff, and you'd literally have members in pinks and OD greens.
The BDUs I disposed of were like brand new
(of course they were always only dry cleaned and
heavy-starched as is required by regulations).3 hours a week or less for the average member doesn't wear out anything.
The "I Dream Of Jeannie-era" cadet jackets are a good example of that.
(and even as-is you'll be seeing BDUs at activities, especially summer ones, for the next few
years, heck CAP still has people showing up occasionally with US on their MAJCOM, wing patches on their blues,
and flags on their field uniforms)
Quote from: Eclipse on June 17, 2021, 07:23:36 PMQuote from: Dwight Dutton on June 17, 2021, 07:12:32 PMI wonder why CAP never went the "former items may be worn until no longer servicable" route.
You'd never flush the old stuff, and you'd literally have members in pinks and OD greens.
The BDUs I disposed of were like brand new (of course they were always only dry cleaned and
heavy-starched as is required by regulations).
3 hours a week or less for the average member doesn't wear out anything.
The "I Dream Of Jeannie-era" cadet jackets are a good example of that.
(and even as-is you'll be seeing BDUs at activities, especially summer ones, for the next few
years, heck CAP still has people showing up occasionally with US on their MAJCOM, wing patches on their blues,
and flags on their field uniforms)
I'm going to have to fact-check this post as
FALSE.
Neither dry cleaning nor starch of BDU was ever required by the regulations. Guidance for washing was to wash the BDU in the warm water, permanent press cycle, using mild detergent that doesn't contain any kind of bleach or starch and to then remove from the dryer and place on hanger immediately to prevent wrinkling.
The Army
allowed the BDU to be starched but specifically
prohibited commanders from requiring starch.
Quote from: AR 670-1 (03 Feb 2005)3-6 (d.) The commander may require that soldiers press these uniforms for special occasions when an especially sharp appearance is required, such as parades, reviews, inspections, or other ceremonial occasions. Although soldiers are authorized to starch the BDU, commanders may not require them to do so.
(emphasis added)
Air Force guidance was simply:
Quote from: AFI36-2903 (02 Aug 2006)1.3.1.3. Uniforms will be neat, clean, pressed, buttoned, and properly maintained.
The "I Dream Of Jeannie-era" cadet jackets disappeared about the same time that I Dream Of Jeannie's first syndicated journey of re-runs came to an end.
In the filming of I Dream of Jeannie, Captain/Major Anthony Nelson wore the Shade 1084 Service Dress uniform, which the USAF replaced with the 1549 shade in 1970. The 1084 is easily identifiable by the lighter shade of blue and how the lower coat pockets are sewn on the
outside of the garment.
(https://images.theconversation.com/files/297732/original/file-20191018-56220-190j262.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip)
My first service coat as a cadet, issued from my squadron's supply closet in 1983, was a 1084. I wore it ONCE before quickly realizing that it was quite obsolete and didn't match the color of my trousers. The odds of a cadet wearing a 1084 jacket anytime in the past 20 years would be in the range of slim-to-almost-none.
Some members really have a penchant for enforcing uniform "regulations" that aren't actually written in the regulations. Next, I expect someone's going to be enforcing their own made-up rule by telling members that scotch grain shoes and boots aren't authorized to be worn with CAP uniforms.
(Spoiler: They are allowed.)
Quote from: baronet68 on June 17, 2021, 09:23:14 PMNeither dry cleaning nor starch of BDU was ever required by the regulations.
OK, seriously?
(https://i.postimg.cc/26063F0W/whoosh.gif)
You said it and he refuted it and backed it up with reg cites. What's the problem?
Wow. Two for one whooshes.
A fitting end and tribute to the BDU.
Quote from: baronet68 on June 17, 2021, 09:23:14 PMThe odds of a cadet wearing a 1084 jacket anytime in the past 20 years would be in the range of slim-to-almost-none.
Then I must be one lucky such and such, because I've seen it soooo many times by soooo many cadets. No, the pants and jacket didn't match, but that didn't stop squadrons from issuing the jackets and cadets from wearing them.
QuoteSome members really have a penchant for enforcing uniform "regulations" that aren't actually written in the regulations. Next, I expect someone's going to be enforcing their own made-up rule by telling members that scotch grain shoes and boots aren't authorized to be worn with CAP uniforms. (Spoiler: They are allowed.)
Of course scotch grain leather is allowed. Now what's not allowed is suede or roughout leather.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 18, 2021, 12:58:25 PMWow. Two for one whooshes.
A fitting end and tribute to the BDU.
The regrettable(?) part about text based communication is that it makes sarcasm much harder to effectively convey.
Quote from: baronet68 on June 17, 2021, 09:23:14 PMSome members really have a penchant for enforcing uniform "regulations" that aren't actually written in the regulations.
This. So. MUCH.
About a quarter of them are old timers who are correctly quoting regulations that no longer exist. I happen to be old enough to remember when they did, so I can point it out in those cases.
But most are giving you their opinion of what should be but acting like they are quoting a regulation that they don't like or may not even have ever read. The fact the uniform regulation goes 154 pages doesn't help.
And believe it or not -it used to be actually worse. We had the CSU series of uniforms on top of everything else, and some wings, like California, had their own uniforms in addition to all that. we went the "Star Trek route" with grey & maroon polo shirts (I still have those) plus other colors. PCR conducted a Wing Commander selection board wearing their own Pacific Region polo shirts & Jeans, I know because they all showed up at my squadron dining out later that day.
And last note, its not just CAP. When I was on active duty Army my cavalry squadron started wearing Stetson hats, riding boots and ascots. The ground guys wore tanker jackets and tanker boots none of which was in 670-1 (the US Army version of 39-1) Berets started appearing everywhere long before they were adopted as standard headgear. I saw a private from Fort Irwin on a plane wearing class A with boots and the OpFor hat. It was a major effort to stop all that with the power of the UCMJ behind it
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 18, 2021, 02:17:10 PMAnd last note, its not just CAP. When I was on active duty Army my cavalry squadron started wearing Stetson hats, riding boots and ascots. The ground guys wore tanker jackets and tanker boots none of which was in 670-1 (the US Army version of 39-1) Berets started appearing everywhere long before they were adopted as standard headgear. I saw a private from Fort Irwin on a plane wearing class A with boots and the OpFor hat. It was a major effort to stop all that with the power of the UCMJ behind it
Hey, Blackhorse does what Blackhorse does.
Quote from: baronet68 on June 17, 2021, 09:23:14 PMQuote from: Eclipse on June 17, 2021, 07:23:36 PMQuote from: Dwight Dutton on June 17, 2021, 07:12:32 PMI wonder why CAP never went the "former items may be worn until no longer servicable" route.
You'd never flush the old stuff, and you'd literally have members in pinks and OD greens.
The BDUs I disposed of were like brand new (of course they were always only dry cleaned and
heavy-starched as is required by regulations).
3 hours a week or less for the average member doesn't wear out anything.
The "I Dream Of Jeannie-era" cadet jackets are a good example of that.
(and even as-is you'll be seeing BDUs at activities, especially summer ones, for the next few
years, heck CAP still has people showing up occasionally with US on their MAJCOM, wing patches on their blues,
and flags on their field uniforms)
I'm going to have to fact-check this post as FALSE.
Neither dry cleaning nor starch of BDU was ever required by the regulations. Guidance for washing was to wash the BDU in the warm water, permanent press cycle, using mild detergent that doesn't contain any kind of bleach or starch and to then remove from the dryer and place on hanger immediately to prevent wrinkling.
The Army allowed the BDU to be starched but specifically prohibited commanders from requiring starch.
Quote from: AR 670-1 (03 Feb 2005)3-6 (d.) The commander may require that soldiers press these uniforms for special occasions when an especially sharp appearance is required, such as parades, reviews, inspections, or other ceremonial occasions. Although soldiers are authorized to starch the BDU, commanders may not require them to do so.
(emphasis added)
Air Force guidance was simply:
Quote from: AFI36-2903 (02 Aug 2006)1.3.1.3. Uniforms will be neat, clean, pressed, buttoned, and properly maintained.
The "I Dream Of Jeannie-era" cadet jackets disappeared about the same time that I Dream Of Jeannie's first syndicated journey of re-runs came to an end.
In the filming of I Dream of Jeannie, Captain/Major Anthony Nelson wore the Shade 1084 Service Dress uniform, which the USAF replaced with the 1549 shade in 1970. The 1084 is easily identifiable by the lighter shade of blue and how the lower coat pockets are sewn on the outside of the garment.
(https://images.theconversation.com/files/297732/original/file-20191018-56220-190j262.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip)
My first service coat as a cadet, issued from my squadron's supply closet in 1983, was a 1084. I wore it ONCE before quickly realizing that it was quite obsolete and didn't match the color of my trousers. The odds of a cadet wearing a 1084 jacket anytime in the past 20 years would be in the range of slim-to-almost-none.
Some members really have a penchant for enforcing uniform "regulations" that aren't actually written in the regulations. Next, I expect someone's going to be enforcing their own made-up rule by telling members that scotch grain shoes and boots aren't authorized to be worn with CAP uniforms. (Spoiler: They are allowed.)
And when they changed the color of the coat, it matched the color of the sleeve braid, which was pretty much invisible at that point, and has been ever since.
Dwight, pal... you can't seriously expect us to examine Larry Hagmans pocket design and uniform cuff braids with Barbara Eden standing there in a PT uniform. ;D
Cheers
Spam
Quote from: Eclipse on April 15, 2021, 03:54:16 PMCAPR 39-1, Page 154
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_039_001_5_Mar_2020__6EA485E9593C8.pdf
6 Days (01 August 2021):
Plastic encased insignia FDU and CFDU (Replaced by dark blue cloth)
Leather nametag on the FDU and CFDU (Replaced by the cloth nametag)
After this weekend I will literally have a pile of this stuff. On a positive note though, cloth nametags should be good forever. Your rank is not on it and wearing older versions of of ratings is authorized. If we had gone to cloth before I was a senior observer I could still wear the leather nametag with the basic wings on them. But I got promoted and had to replace them all, and now throw them away.
But when I make Master Observer they will still be good, and most likely I won't change them again.
Cloth name tags will last if you don't send through the washer.
Hand wash them and either let them air dry or speed it up a bit with about 30 seconds in the microwave.
Have done this for years with my AF name tags with no problems.
Any suggestions for where one can acquire the new Class A uniform coat without having convenient access to well stocked AF base? I've got several cadets who've been asking me where to find this thing, since Vanguard isn't selling it, and I'd like to formulate a better answer than "Stalk eBay and pray."
Quote from: Shdwcaster on July 06, 2021, 12:25:54 AMAny suggestions for where one can acquire the new Class A uniform coat without having convenient access to well stocked AF base? I've got several cadets who've been asking me where to find this thing, since Vanguard isn't selling it, and I'd like to formulate a better answer than "Stalk eBay and pray."
http://www.uniforms-4u.com/c-air-force-uniforms-1077.aspx
This is one of the few, if only, consistent retail sources for new USAF Service Uniforms
outside AAFES.
They ain't cheap, but they
are available...
FWIW, their price of $229 for the officer's coat is a little less then what I paid in 2002-ish for
mine ($160ish adjusted for inflation), and that was direct from an MCSS on base. Tax free helps, of course.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2021, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: Shdwcaster on July 06, 2021, 12:25:54 AMAny suggestions for where one can acquire the new Class A uniform coat without having convenient access to well stocked AF base? I've got several cadets who've been asking me where to find this thing, since Vanguard isn't selling it, and I'd like to formulate a better answer than "Stalk eBay and pray."
http://www.uniforms-4u.com/c-air-force-uniforms-1077.aspx
This is one of the few, if only, consistent retail sources for new USAF Service Uniforms
outside AAFES.
They ain't cheap, but they are available...
FWIW, their price of $229 for the officer's coat is a little less then what I paid in 2002-ish for
mine ($160ish adjusted for inflation), and that was direct from an MCSS on base. Tax free helps, of course.
Thank you so much.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2021, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: Shdwcaster on July 06, 2021, 12:25:54 AMAny suggestions for where one can acquire the new Class A uniform coat without having convenient access to well stocked AF base? I've got several cadets who've been asking me where to find this thing, since Vanguard isn't selling it, and I'd like to formulate a better answer than "Stalk eBay and pray."
http://www.uniforms-4u.com/c-air-force-uniforms-1077.aspx
This is one of the few, if only, consistent retail sources for new USAF Service Uniforms outside AAFES.
They ain't cheap, but they are available...
FWIW, their price of $229 for the officer's coat is a little less then what I paid in 2002-ish for mine ($160ish adjusted for inflation), and that was direct from an MCSS on base. Tax free helps, of course.
And $30 from the same company:
http://www.uniforms-4u.com/p-usaf-officer-jacket-conversion-kit-18231.aspx
Because enlisted coats are actually fairly easy to come by. Ebay has a lot of them around $50 each. You can have a service coat for under $100. I wore one like that for over a decade before I finally bought the real thing (actually here) not one person noticed the difference.
You can also get a brand new enlisted service coat from AAFES for $112, but the officer coat is $192 so if you are going that route get the real deal as you will not be saving that much.