Mitchell Award = Eagle Scout?

Started by vandy, May 25, 2005, 08:51:33 AM

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

vandy

Here's a topic for discussion. I've read that a lot of scholarships use the Mitchell Award as the equivalent for the Eagle Scout Award. I think the military does to for promotion purposes. Still, some people I've met equate the Spaatz with the Eagle Scout. To me the Mitchell makes more sense, even though the Spaatz is the highest award offered to CAP cadets. I think that in terms of dedication and leadership ability, a Mitchell cadet has proved themself as much as an Eagle Scout, and this should be recognized. What do you all think?

Also, what does everyone think about the possibility of starting a Mitchell Cadet society? I know the Spaatzen have one, but since there are so many Mitchells, and former Mitchells, this might be a good way to encourage lifetime service to CAP and to help generate positive publicity for CAP.

Yoda

I don't think the Mitchell should be equal to the Eagle Scout award.  The estimates of those who have completed their Eagle Scout award number a little over a million.  However, percentage-wise, they only number approximately 4% of all scouts.  I think the Earhart and the Eagle are much better comparisons.

Don't get me wrong.  I think CAP is ten times better than the BSA, but more cadets earn the Mitchell than earn the Eagle.  I think the Earhart is a much fairer comparison.

elkorona

Quote from: vandy on May 25, 2005, 08:51:33 AM
Here's a topic for discussion. I've read that a lot of scholarships use the Mitchell Award as the equivalent for the Eagle Scout Award. I think the military does to for promotion purposes. Still, some people I've met equate the Spaatz with the Eagle Scout. To me the Mitchell makes more sense, even though the Spaatz is the highest award offered to CAP cadets. I think that in terms of dedication and leadership ability, a Mitchell cadet has proved themself as much as an Eagle Scout, and this should be recognized. What do you all think?

Also, what does everyone think about the possibility of starting a Mitchell Cadet society? I know the Spaatzen have one, but since there are so many Mitchells, and former Mitchells, this might be a good way to encourage lifetime service to CAP and to help generate positive publicity for CAP.

Mitchell society, hmm, thats a lot.  I don't know.  I know there was something to do with the Eaker Award.  But yea, I know Eagles have one, I mean, I talk to my old roomate and mention NESA and he takes out his Eagle Scout association card.  I was like, No Nat'l ES Academy
Lt Col Elliott Korona, CAP
Deputy Director, Civic Leadership Academy

abysmal

Quote from: vandy on May 25, 2005, 08:51:33 AM
Here's a topic for discussion. I've read that a lot of scholarships use the Mitchell Award as the equivalent for the Eagle Scout Award. I think the military does to for promotion purposes. Still, some people I've met equate the Spaatz with the Eagle Scout. To me the Mitchell makes more sense, even though the Spaatz is the highest award offered to CAP cadets. I think that in terms of dedication and leadership ability, a Mitchell cadet has proved themself as much as an Eagle Scout, and this should be recognized. What do you all think?

Putting on my Scoutmaster uniform now...
I do not think there is any comparison at all between an Eagle Scout and a Spaatz Cadet.
It takes a LOT more work on the part of the Cadet to earn that rank than any of my Scouts to ge their Eagle.
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

vandy

Abysmal,
What do you think the comparison between the Mitchell and the Eagle Scout is given your experience in both programs? I still think the Mitchell is a better comparison that the Earhart, even though it is achieved by a slightly larger percentage of cadets. More people join the Boy Scouts at school and at other places and then quit, and more join at a younger age, so there is a more natural attrition rate.

I still think the Mitchell Society would be a good idea. I'd imagine there are less Mitchell Cadets out there than Eagle Scouts, and I think it would be a great way to promote CAP.

abysmal

In my case I am the scout master at our local church.
The boys get started cub scouts and then at 12 run hard through boy scouts till they make Eagle. And there is a LOT of focus on our young men making their Eagle.

BUT...
The things you have to do to make Eagle are really not comparable to what you have to do in CAP.

The structure is VASTLY different, and the requirements for advancement are just as varied. It honestly an Apples & Oranges sort of thing.

having said that, I suppose the Mitchell is not all that bad of a comparison point, as the Spaatz is well beyond Eagle.
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

fronzz

Basically an c/ssgt is =to an Eagle scout.
C/Amn Peter Hibma
CAP

Pace

Quote from: fronzz on June 15, 2005, 10:55:55 PM
Basically an c/ssgt is =to an Eagle scout.
Ouch!  I'm not an Eagle Scout, but I can even feel the pain they felt from that blow.  From talking to many Eagle Scouts who are also cadet officers, I'm inclined to buy off on Earhart or Eaker being equal to Eagle Scout.

I cannot debate the merits of that because, as I said, I'm not an Eagles Scout.  The most I ever was happen to be a Cub Scout.  However, after weighing the different programs with those who are, I feel confident that Earhart/Eaker is a decent comparison.
Lt Col, CAP

fronzz

I didn't mean it in an offensive way,i just meant it that the Boy Scoutsaren't that good of people.
C/Amn Peter Hibma
CAP

Pace

Lt Col, CAP

Monty

Quote from: fronzz on June 15, 2005, 10:55:55 PM
Basically an c/ssgt is =to an Eagle scout.

Young man...I am an Eagle Scout and I'd not be so sure as to make such a statement without a better base of facts...

-Maj M. Montgomery
PCR-CA-334/CC

whatevah

Quote from: fronzz on June 15, 2005, 11:07:34 PM
I didn't mean it in an offensive way,i just meant it that the Boy Scoutsaren't that good of people.
you're pretty off-base, kiddo.

for the most part, Boy/Girl Scouts are a lot like CAP cadets.  So, either you have a really weird superiority complex (which would be pretty stupid coming from a C/AB), or you've only dealt with a VERY small group of scouts, which weren't very professional (which, btw... you can find in some CAP squadrons).

so, I suggest you apologize and leave it alone.

anyhow, I think that for all they have to do to get Eagle Scout, it's pretty close to the Eaker.
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

Monty

Quote from: fronzz on June 15, 2005, 11:07:34 PM
I didn't mean it in an offensive way,i just meant it that the Boy Scouts aren't that good of people.

For what it is worth...

As a boy, I was presented the chance to go into either Boy Scouts or CAP.  I chose the former for personal reasons that aren't relevant to the conversation.  What is...is that I earned my Eagle Scout (and four eagle palms) and then as an adult, "reclaimed" the other side of the choice – in a manner of speaking – and joined the Civil Air Patrol.

Having served in a myriad of positions, both cadet programs related and other...I have to say that the Eagle Scout equivalent in CAP is nearly impossible to determine.  In layman's terms, we're speaking of an apples-to-oranges comparison.

While there are (for the lack of better term) "showy" similarities (i.e., ranks, clothing distinctions) that both the BSA and the CAP share, the core of the program(s) pull each other in different directions over the course of a youth's time within each program.

Furthermore, if we are to introduce the subjective factor (i.e., some squadrons have harder standards for their future Mitchell cadets than do other squadrons....just like some troops have harder standards for their future Eagle Scouts than do other troops) then we REALLY have a tough road to hoe if we are to find equivalents.

For the record, the United States Air Force allows for advanced rank for CAP Milestone Achievements as A1C/E-3.  For Eagle Scout (BSA) and the Gold Award (GSA), the advanced rank placement is Amn/E-2.  (I'm a former Air Force recruiter, so take this nugget of goodness with the nod of experience.)

Cadet Hibma:  With respect to your inappropriate comment...take a hint from "Whatevah" (moderator) and recognize that the quality of the BSA program as a whole cannot be determined by (a) your limited exposure to a select few and/or (b) your lack of life experience in dealing with non-profit, volunteer-based organizations.  As a matter of fact, my heart prefers neither CAP nor the BSA at the exclusion of the other...and yet, fact is fact: the BSA has a distinguished record of public service to the US stretching back to the early 20th Century.  Thus...using *ahem* customs and courtesies, anybody would be remiss to make such *stupid* statements as to say that BSA personnel "aren't good people."

Do yourself a favor Cadet Hibma...sit back, LEARN some tact, and develop the proper means of addressing topics of which you have no knowledge.  Otherwise, I fear your excuses of "not meaning to offend others" will inhibit your own ability to achieve a Mitchell Award in the future (at least, it certainly would if I was your commander.)

Regards,

MICHAEL S. MONTGOMERY, JR., Major, CAP
Commander, PCR-CA-334

BillB

The idea of a Mitchell Society like the Spaatz Association, forgets that CAP existed prior to Jack Sorenson. There are still CAP members active that earned the old COP with clasps that equal or exceed what current Mitchell or Spaatz members have had to learn. For example, under the COP cadets had to earn a first aid card and learn Morse Code. Plus the AE program was covered more in depth. When the transition to the current achievement program started, cadets called the AE manuals, "comic books". Previously the AE manual was based more on USAF Technical Manuals. Ask someone to show you the 1949-57 cadet training material and you'll see what I mean.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

fronzz

Sorry everybody who is or used to be an Eagle scout.
C/Amn Peter Hibma
CAP