RE: A CAP kilt

[cap82-86]

Regarding the CAP Kilt The TewMac Squadron was based in Tewksbury MA. The Squadron self supported financially and the heritage of the airport owner this was part of the tribute to the  family.This was a rifle drill team & highland dance that would perform to help offset the cost of the quanson hut which the squadron was based.I do not Know if it was regulation uniformed in MA . The Kilt tartan was of the Maclaren family that had established the airport. The Civil Air Patrol squadron was established in 1952 To 1997.

[CadetProgramGuy]

And 39-1 says we can wear the kilt how?

(or the many pointless ICL's?)

[Major Lord]

USAF Tartan Kilt: http://www.sportkilt.com/product/1351/Kilt---US-Air-Force-Sport-Kilt-%28U%29.html

Major Lord

[Cherokeepilot]

All service branches have a registered tartan which may be woven into material for a kilt.  A number of years ago, I had started an info request up the food chain about CAP registration of a tartan.  A number of public corporations and private organizations have their own individual registered tartans.  The tartans usually reflect colors associated with that organization.

I had tried several different tarten weves based on the historic colors for CAP of Yellow, Red, and Blue from the WWII era.  Looked alright, but someone with a better understanding of heritage colors in weaving needed to be involved.  The idea didn't go very far.

I did request and received permission to wear my family tartan kilt with proper jacket at this years NSC.  Well received by most folks, but did hear some opposition comments at the dinner.  Not everybody is happy to see a properly attired man for dinner.
73s

[ColonelJack]

Well, I don't know about a CAP kilt (but I'd love to help design one!) ... but I do know that any kilt looks GREAT with a mess dress jacket.

Absolutely freaking stunning, in fact.

Jack

[Major Lord]

Hey, if people can wear a Yarmulke, we should be able to wear our kilts! Anyone who opposes it is obviously an anti-anglo racist and a hate monger, and there is no room in CAP for that kind of un-American thinking

Major Lord
Clanranald

[Irishrenegade]

Being Irish...I am all for implementing this. They really do look stunning.

[tdepp]

Don't we already have enough uniforms as it is?

[Irishrenegade]

^^ to true...But whats one more to the list...they are getting rid of one so this could be its replacement

[Major Lord]

I have seen photos of lots of military weddings with the mess dress/kilt combo. Is this technically authorized in regulations anywhere?

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

Hey, if people can wear a Yarmulke, we should be able to wear our kilts!

Where are those authorized?

[Irishrenegade]

I dont think they are stated in CAP regs from what I have read. Something tells me we would have to get permission to do so.

[davidsinn]

Hey, if people can wear a Yarmulke, we should be able to wear our kilts!

Where are those authorized?

39-1 Major.

1-7. Wear of Religious Apparel. Members may wear certain visible items of religious apparel while
in uniform. Religious apparel is defined as articles of clothing or dress that are part of the doctrine or
traditional observance of the religious faith practiced by the member. Hair and grooming practices are
not included in the meaning of religious apparel. Jewelry of a religious nature must conform to
standards set forth in this regulation for wear of non-religious jewelry. Religious head coverings are
authorized only when military headgear is not authorized. Head coverings must be plain dark blue or
black without adornment. Also, they may be worn underneath military headgear if they do not interfere
with the proper fit or appearance of the headgear. For example, Jewish yarmulkes meet this requirement
if they do not exceed 6 inches in diameter.

[tdepp]

So, what if someone with African roots wanted to wear traditional tribal garb that was not religious? Or a Native American wanted to wear tribal garb that was not religious?  Or what if I, of German descent, wanted to wear lederhosen with my uniform?  I think that's why uniforms are called "uniforms"--so we all show we are on the same team with a uniformity of purpose for our nation.  It is also a way to identify who we are to the public.  It would be like members of a football team each wearing different kinds of jerseys during a game.  The religious items I understand.  But cultural items?   

[Irishrenegade]

Kilts are not always...and i repeat...not always cultural. With the world so diverse these days I think everyone adopted eachothers cultures. Its alot of time all perspective.

Along with that...if the USAF and other military branches use/wear kilts then I don't see the harm in it...granted we do have an over abundance of uniform selections...

[Ned]

Well, I'm thinking that members within the weight limit could wear the USAF tartan, but with a grey sporran.

Our  "members of size" will have to wear a Corporate Tartan, I suspect.  But the good news is that they can wear a hard metal clan badge as a kilt pin!


Ned Lee
Member, Scottish-American Military Society

[Irishrenegade]

Well, I'm thinking that members within the weight limit could wear the USAF tartan, but with a grey sporran.

Our  "members of size" will have to wear a Corporate Tartan, I suspect.  But the good news is that they can wear a hard metal clan badge as a kilt pin!


Ned Lee
Member, Scottish-American Military Society

Co-sign

[Major Lord]

Perhaps a board to approve Kilt wear based on submitted photographs? Kilts, like Spandex, are a privilege, not a right!

I propose we find a major CAP gathering to arrange the world's largest CAP-Kilt group photo. I dinna think the girlie-men have the stones to stan' aginna us!

Major Lord

[Al Sayre]

Hey, if people can wear a Yarmulke, we should be able to wear our kilts!

Where are those authorized?

39-1 Major.

1-7. Wear of Religious Apparel. Members may wear certain visible items of religious apparel while
in uniform. Religious apparel is defined as articles of clothing or dress that are part of the doctrine or
traditional observance of the religious faith practiced by the member. Hair and grooming practices are
not included in the meaning of religious apparel. Jewelry of a religious nature must conform to
standards set forth in this regulation for wear of non-religious jewelry. Religious head coverings are
authorized only when military headgear is not authorized. Head coverings must be plain dark blue or
black without adornment. Also, they may be worn underneath military headgear if they do not interfere
with the proper fit or appearance of the headgear. For example, Jewish yarmulkes meet this requirement
if they do not exceed 6 inches in diameter.

Does that mean a Pastafarian can wear a striped shirt, cutlass and eye patch?

[SarDragon]

Well, another one right down the crapper!

[Major Lord]

That's nonsense: Pastafarians just wear the sacred bib!

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

That's nonsense: Pastafarians just wear the sacred bib!

The "Bibites" are a splinter group of disenfranchised Pastafariens, anyone knows that a full Orthodox Pastafarien wears an apron!

[Strick]

I did request and received permission to wear my family tartan kilt with proper jacket at this years NSC.  Well received by most folks, but did hear some opposition comments at the dinner.  Not everybody is happy to see a properly attired man for dinner.
73s
[/quote]

That was you.........When I walked in to the Officers club, my reaction was W T @#% Batman, I dig it , I am Scott-Irish, very classy sir :clap:.  Too bad we cant wear one with the mess dress jacket.

[alamrcn]

Regardless of point or opinion, it will just NEVER happen! It would be just too controvercial of a move for Civil Air Patrol. The best you could realistically hope for is that they (the powers that be an those above them) just look away at the practice.


Not to hyjack the thread...
But is there another thread that already discussed "cultural" head coverings on females in CAP uniforms? I'm not aware of any circumstances like this yet, but as fast as the Muslim population is growing in the US... It's only a matter of time it needs to be addressed.

Again, doubt CAP will ever make a regulation regarding it, but may just look away instead.

[indygreg]

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3301/Woodland-Camo.html
http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3221/Navy-Blue.html

These should probably be considered for wear with the BDU's

[SarDragon]

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3301/Woodland-Camo.html
http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3221/Navy-Blue.html

These should probably be considered for wear with the BDU's

YGBSM!

Anywhere I would be wearing a utility uniform, I certainly don't want to be doing it with bare legs.

[indygreg]

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3301/Woodland-Camo.html
http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3221/Navy-Blue.html

These should probably be considered for wear with the BDU's

YGBSM!

Anywhere I would be wearing a utility uniform, I certainly don't want to be doing it with bare legs.

Sure would be comfortable on a hot summer day at an air show, though.

[Gunner C]

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3301/Woodland-Camo.html
http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3221/Navy-Blue.html

These should probably be considered for wear with the BDU's

I just can't find the words to properly describe how crappy that looks.  Real men have a tartan (Clan Bryson for me). 

[Dracosbane]

The Utilikilt Mocker would be perfect as a replacement for the gray slacks with aviator combo.

[Gunner C]

The Utilikilt Mocker would be perfect as a replacement for the gray slacks with aviator combo.

Ya know, I kinda like those!  Aviator shirt, ten rows of ribbons, and a grey kilt.  Stylin! (Gotta have thick wool knee socks and spit-shined shoes).  Maybe about a thousand of us could show up at the national board meeting this summer wearing it (stupid uniform protest).

[heliodoc]

^^^

That WOULD be something to see...

The faces of the NB....that would be priceless!!  Almost be worth money to see that happen...

[Cecil DP]

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3301/Woodland-Camo.html
http://www.sportkilt.com/product/3221/Navy-Blue.html

These should probably be considered for wear with the BDU's

YGBSM!

Anywhere I would be wearing a utility uniform, I certainly don't want to be doing it with bare legs.

Sure would be comfortable on a hot summer day at an air show, though.

Only in San Francisco, Fire Island, or Provincetown.

[Major Carrales]

Does this mean that I can have Don Chilo Molina of Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico begin work on a CAP Mariachi traje complete with specially designed galas to reflect CAP.  It has a short jacket like the mess dress. 

Really, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

That said, I would support the CAP kilt.  I've seen its appearance and wear at our Wing Conferences and, done correctly, it is not bad at all.

[Major Lord]

Sparky,

I am not too sure about the military traditions of Mariachi.........Although Accordions have been considered as being a violation of the Geneva Conventions.....


Major Lord

[Cecil DP]

Sparky,

I am not too sure about the military traditions of Mariachi.........Although Accordions have been considered as being a violation of the Geneva Conventions.....


Major Lord

So are bagpipes

[Major Carrales]

Sparky,

I am not too sure about the military traditions of Mariachi.........Although Accordions have been considered as being a violation of the Geneva Conventions.....


Major Lord

So are bagpipes

Wow , that was harsh and harsher!!!

[Dracosbane]

While searching through some archives about my family history, I found a story about an ancestor (clansman, at least) that was tried for treason by the English after a battle with the Scots.  He argued that he wasn't a combatant, as he was a piper.  The English convicted him as they pointed out that the Scots never went into battle without their pipes ahead of them.

[indygreg]

Sparky,

I am not too sure about the military traditions of Mariachi.........Although Accordions have been considered as being a violation of the Geneva Conventions.....


Major Lord

So are bagpipes

Wow , that was harsh and harsher!!!

Personally, I love listening to bagpipes.  One of the high schools here in town has them in their marching band, and it sounds great.  Unfortunately, it's being turned into a jr. high next year, so I don't know it they'll still have them.

[Major Lord]

Bagpipes strike fear int the hearts of our enemies and add resolve to the hearts of our good and true warriors. Accordions just encourage genocide. I learned to play the accordion as a child, and I am learning the bagpipes now ( I just have a chanter-not the full set) I have long had a theory that these instruments, when played badly, are the cause of a pretty fair percentage of drive-by shootings.....


Major Lord

[PHall]

Bagpipes strike fear int the hearts of our enemies and add resolve to the hearts of our good and true warriors. Accordions just encourage genocide. I learned to play the accordion as a child, and I am learning the bagpipes now ( I just have a chanter-not the full set) I have long had a theory that these instruments, when played badly, are the cause of a pretty fair percentage of drive-by shootings.....


Major Lord

You're learning to play now? At your age??

So how are those old creaky fingers handling those triplet notes?

[raivo]

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/9091/US-Air-Force-Digital-Tiger-Stripe.html

Some things just do not need to be invented.

[Spike]

^ Outstanding!  Now, I have never seen military members in kilts.  Where and who has them in the military? 

[PHall]

The Band of the Air Force Reserve has an "Official" Bagpipe Band and they do perform in their kilts.
They're the ones who designed the U.S. Air Force tartan. And it's an officially registered tartan too.

[Cherokeepilot]

The US military does have some but not all official recognition of tartans.  The tartan for the USAF is officially registered and accepted by the Lord Lion office in Scotland......kinda like a copyright office.  While the tartan is officially copyrighted doesn't mean that the tartan is officially accepted by the USAF.  The officially accepted tartans for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard have been officially accepted by the different services.

I think that the USMC had an official tartan first.  I do know that certain units of the USMC have registered different versions of the tartan for their individual unit.  Pretty much as have different units of the British, Canadian and other units have individual tartans for kilts and other clothing items.  .  The USMC has been fairly aggressive in developing trademarked and copyrighted clothing items including utility uniform cammo patterns.  The  USAF is fairly far behind in promoting & marketing of uniforms and clothing items.  I remember from quite some time back reading and hearing how the USAF didn't actually "own" the color pattern to the current service blue color but had borrowed it from another service which wears identical color for shirts and service dress variations.  The USMC not only own their cammo pattern designs, but generate income from licensing its patterns to different clothings and "gear" makers of equipment. 

If an individual unit wanted to wear kilts for certain occasions such as parades, weddings, dinning and other occasions, the unit could come up with a tartan to be registered and woven for just that unit.  The unit could turn around and sell the cloth and its licensing as a fund raiser.  I suspect with the current heavy handed approach to management by the national and various state headquarters, the ownership of the tartans would be betterheld by the booster clubs for any units. 

Having a registered tartan is fairly easy to obtain.  I find it kinda funny how Sony and various other companies from Japan are quite big on having tartans, but are big on employees wearing Kilts on formal occasions including marketing occasions.  I can say that nothing draws a bigger crowd than a pipe band.

[Spike]

I love bagpipes.  I think it is one of the most unique instruments ever invented.  Then again, I think anything that can make noise is awesome cool.   

[Cherokeepilot]

There is nothing quite like "Amazing Grace" played with the pipes.
73s

[CadetProgramGuy]

Any Firemen out there?

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/9191/Turnout-Kilt.html

[EMT-83]

I just had this horrible mental image of my lieutenant climbing a ladder wearing one of those.

[SarDragon]

Any Firemen out there?

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/9191/Turnout-Kilt.html

That is a hoot! I've got some fluorescent orange fabric that would look great. The socks might be a problem, though. What an item to wear on St. Patrick's Day.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Various Commonwealth units use kilts.

Aussies:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/6_RVR_ANZAC_Day_2006.jpg

Canadians:
http://400pipeband.com/

As a descendant of Theobald FitzWalter, Duke of Ormonde, I would gladly wear a kilt.

[cap235629]

Any Firemen out there?

http://www.sportkilt.com/product/9191/Turnout-Kilt.html

That is a hoot! I've got some fluorescent orange fabric that would look great. The socks might be a problem, though. What an item to wear on St. Patrick's Day.

Were I come from, the police would place you in to protective custody if you wore ORANGE on Saint Patrick's Day. It is considered HIGHLY offensive and a danger to the wearer........

[Spike]

Were I come from, the police would place you in to protective custody if you wore ORANGE on Saint Patrick's Day. It is considered HIGHLY offensive and a danger to the wearer........

Reminds me of a time when my Brother decided I needed reminding of my Irish heritage (very small percent BTW).  I turned the shower on, got in and two minutes later the water turned green.  It took two days for the dye to go away, and my Parents were not pleased that the shower floor and walls were green longer than I was. 

I will now go buy myself a Shamrock Shake at McDonald's!!  Happy St Patricks day everyone!  Yes it is too early to say that, but I may not remember to say it on the actual day.