Base Security

[JK657]

So, the other day I was heading out to my local major Air Force base to partake in some tax free goodness. There was a few cars ahead of me at the main gate. As I slowly got closer to the Guard I noticed that he was generally sloppy in his appearance. As each car pulled up he did a quick look at the ID (I'm talking like 1/2 second) before a casual wave of the hand to signal the driver he could proceed.

Once I pulled up I handed my ID card to him but he did not take to look at it or me. He says, "good" and waves me along. I stayed put and asked him if Officers are no longer saluted upon entering a base. I said it quite sharply for effect. He quickly came to attention and said that he didn't see my pay grade on my ID. (I was also in uniform). I reminded him that maybe he wasn't taking a good enough look at it since he didn't even take it out of my hand. His supervisor happened to be standing there and asked what the problem was. The situation was explained and was promised to be resolved.

As a civilian police officer, a military police officer in the National Guard I naturally take base security very seriously. The curse of complacency or laziness can be often be the bane of the US Military.

Today I was out at the base again and saw the same guy at the gate. I was relieved to see him doing his duties in a sharp and thorough manner. Mission Accomplished!

Stay Alert Stay Alive!!

[PHall]

So was this guy a "real" cop or an augmentee? (The lack of a badge is the clue.)

[JK657]

He was a Department of Defense Guard. The local base has pretty much gone away from Security Police and now has DOD Guards at the gates and DOD Police Officers handling law enforcement inside the base.

[isuhawkeye]

Just for reference

Were you in a military uniform showing a current military ID

or

Were you in a CAP uniform and showing a CAP ID?

[flyguy06]

DOD guards are civilians. They dont usually salute officers. They arent required to.  I have never seen it at Ft McPherson or Ft Stewart. But I guess you really wanted that salute huh? Hope it made you feel better LT. 

[DG]

DOD guards are civilians. They dont usually salute officers. They arent required to.  I have never seen it at Ft McPherson or Ft Stewart. But I guess you really wanted that salute huh? Hope it made you feel better LT. 

Flyguy,

I know you are highly experienced in the Army.

And if anyone is deserving of a salute, it is you.

Is there any psychological seminar or counseling available for this ARNG 2LT, so that he does not embarass the whole organization?

[mmouw]

I have had a similar experience with AD gate guards. When I drive my wife's car, unless they bend over to look and some do, they can't see my face. Just yesterday I came through the main gate, in civies, and the person took my ID flipped it over once quickly and handed it back. There was no way he could have read it in the time he handled it.

Don't get me wrong, I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO STAND GATE DUTY!!! Saying that what is the purpose of 100% ID check if they don't compare it to the person. I have been at three AF bases in the last year, and the civilian guards are usually the best. Living on base, it does concern me about the lack of constancy.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't get me wrong, I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO STAND GATE DUTY!!! Saying that what is the purpose of 100% ID check if they don't compare it to the person. I have been at three AF bases in the last year, and the civilian guards are usually the best. Living on base, it does concern me about the lack of constancy.

I've seen in the past that military security is more high speed than the civilian contractors.

[Flying Pig]

Wheeeeew.  Man...for a second there I thought you were reaming him for not saluting a CAP officer .   

As a former Marine NCO, I would say that one of the first things an enlisted person tries to do to test the system is allowing their customs and courtesies and uniform to slide just to see what they can get away with.  When nobody corrects them, it goes on to infect other areas and then the other troops see it.  I saw it many times as a Squad Leader and Platoon Sgt.  If you snatched them up quick, it was usually enough.  If a 2Lt cant enforce the customs and courtesies, when do they actually have the right to start?  It doesnt sound to me that JK was trolling for salutes, the guy failed to even recognize an officer was standing in front of him, or refused to acknowledge an officer was in front of him.  Either way, failure.  If I would have failed or refused to salute a Marine 2Lt. I would have been standing before the man! 
If you havn't watched the movie Master and Commander it illustrates this well.
I dont think it was out of line at all.  The guy is checking ID and he didnt even bother to notice you were an officer?  Its attention to detail that catches the bad guys.  Thats like me doing a traffic stop, checking your drivers license and then not even notice what state your DL was issued from.

As a former Marine Security Force Guard at a high value national security related installation, NWS Yorktown VA,  I can tell you I was squared away in my appearance and in my attention to detail.  I always made it a point to read the persons name out loud with their rank if applicable.  It forced you to look at the whole ID, not just the photo. 

Good move on your part.

[Spike]

DOD guards are civilians. They don't usually salute officers. They aren't required to.  I have never seen it at Ft McPherson or Ft Stewart. But I guess you really wanted that salute huh? Hope it made you feel better LT. 

Flyguy,

I know you are highly experienced in the Army.

And if anyone is deserving of a salute, it is you.

Is there any psychological seminar or counseling available for this ARNG 2LT, so that he does not embarrass the whole organization?

Agreed.  This "new" Officer was trolling for salutes from people who are not even in the military. 

Perhaps the guard recognized the 2LT, and did in fact see the card he was shoving out his window toward him.  It only takes a quick glance at the front of the CAC to tell if it is real or not.  PLUS, the guards can see you coming in the front winshield before you even reach the gate. 

I have to ask was this a guard base, Air Force Base, Active Duty installation, depot, barracks, Army Post.....what??  Some installations are more relaxed these days then others.  I am guessing this 2LT is young, and does not remember when most Army Posts were all "open", until 9/11 that is.   

[Flying Pig]

So its settled then, the military should make a rule.  You can be an officer, but you dont rate salutes nor can you enforce the customs and courtesies of the US military until you are......what?  A Senior 1Lt?, Capt?  As CAP members we will have discussions about how we want the military to take us seriously, while at the same time we are telling an Army Officer that he is overreacting when someone blatantly refuses/fails to salute him?

I dont know JK, but seeing how he is an MP Officer, I would say correcting a gate guards failures are well within his rights.  As a military officer, its his duty is it not? And as a civilian police officer I would venture to guess he is not a 21yr old pimple faced butter bar trolling for salutes.  He was simply driving through the main gate.  Could be wrong.

[NCRblues]

DOD police, as you said he was, are not require to salute you, nor are they required to acknowledge you're an officer. It does not matter to them what your rank is. I doubt this story very much. A civilian gate guard would not jump to attention on the gate because you said whatever you said loudly. It takes very little time to know if something is wrong with the cac you handed over. If he would have sensed something wrong, he would have taken a little longer.

This is an insult to the man, and not only that but in your self-righteousness you bring you're um "experience" to a CIVIL AIR PATROL discussion board. Let me ask you this, what does this have to do with cap? Or was this just a way for you to let everyone know you were commissioned a 2nd Lt and someone (who doesn't even have to) didn't salute you?

Also surprised those from the other thread that was insulting base security haven't jump all over this.

Can we get a lock please??

[Flying Pig]

^ Hey, nice signature line.  Appropriate for this discussion dont you think?

[NCRblues]

Military officers should not be correcting civilians at all. He clearly stated the guard was a DOD police. That means he was not enlisted, therefore that man he insulted on a public discussion board was doing his job and nothing wrong!!

Now if this was a Security forces airman that did not salute the officer, than sure correct him, or ANY enlisted member for that matter but it was not, so he was wrong in what he did.

[Eclipse]

DOD police, as you said he was, are not require to salute you, nor are they required to acknowledge you're an officer.

Depends on the base.

I agree that this has nothing to do with CAP and I don't understand why people keep bring these issues up here or even in public.