grey epilates

[DrJbdm]

I ordered the male epaulets from Vanguard and they are noticibly different from the Air Force epaulets, they are a little shorter and a little wider and not nearly as tapered. Apparently all Vanguard did was change the female version to be a little wider and shorter then the CAP male version.

[a2capt]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

[Spike]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

That is not Vanguards fault.  They are using CAP NHQ specifications, not government specs, per Cap's agreement with them.

If they were to follow Govt spec for Air Force devices, they would cost THE SAME, and be of much better quality.  Don't forget, some Vanguard CAP Products have a CAP "exclusive use" charge built into them. 

Don't believe me, call Vanguard and ask!

[JohnKachenmeister]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

That is not Vanguards fault.  They are using CAP NHQ specifications, not government specs, per Cap's agreement with them.

If they were to follow Govt spec for Air Force devices, they would cost THE SAME, and be of much better quality.  Don't forget, some Vanguard CAP Products have a CAP "exclusive use" charge built into them. 

Don't believe me, call Vanguard and ask!

If we didn't believe you, what in the world makes you think we would believe Vanguard?

Al Capone was a legitimate businessman who never filed income taxes, because he never owed any.  If you don't believe me, ask Al Capone!

[DrJbdm]

I spoke with the local police uniform insignia place that does most of the patches for the police departments in Texas and for several LE agencies around the nation.

My contact there, looked in a provider catalog, but they have mostly Army style epaulets with the silver line before the grade insignia. (in the Air Force, company grade officers have a silver line before the grade, in the army, all officers have a silver line before the grade)


He did say that they could manufacture what I was looking for, but that it would require 25 orders with a cost of about $4.00 per epaulet. ($8 a pair) That's 25 Captains insignia, 25 Majors Insignia, ect, ect.


They could make these things to the Air Force specifications for length and width in a grey color matching the current grey that we wear.

[Eclipse]

My contact there, looked in a provider catalog, but they have mostly Army style epaulets with the silver line before the grade insignia. (in the Air Force, company grade officers have a silver line before the grade, in the army, all officers have a silver line before the grade)

In the Air Force, and CAP, Field grade officers have a silver line before the grade.

Company grades have no line.





Army epaulet sleeves have a gold stripe.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Beat me to the correction!

[DrJbdm]

ooops, I just caught it. I had it all mixed up...I guess I need to proof read what I write better.... Thanks for correcting my mix up.

[Mustang]

   Yes, I typically use epaulet stiffiners and they help to a small degree. I just wish who ever designed these things would have just used mil-spec process.

   I suspect these are a high profit item for Vanguard, much cheaper to manufacture then regular Air Force mil-spec epaulets and sold for just as a high price point.

Sad.....but they used "CAP specs" when designing them.  Vanguard already uses very strict Government specifications on all of their other products.  It was NHQ that was so lax.  So if you want to blame anyone blame NHQ!!!

Agreed.  The lack of attention to detail in whomever approves this stuff--Susie Parker, I suspect--is appalling.

[Mustang]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

Vanguard must have switched to The Hock Shop's source!  I purchased a set of shoulder marks (not "epaulet sleeves", Bob) from The Hock maybe 10 years ago, the quality was just as you describe. A complete waste of money.

Now that Vanguard has gotten the go-ahead to produce a women's version, maybe now they can start producing a true men's version. 

I doubt we'll ever get anything of the same quality as what's produced for the AF, though.

[Hawk200]

I purchased a set of shoulder marks (not "epaulet sleeves", Bob) ...

A little light reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_mark

My first few years in the Air Force, they were commonly called "shoulder marks", but they have been referred to lately as "epaulets", even though that's an error. 39-1 calls it an "epaulet sleeve". I know where you're coming from when it comes to "shoulder marks", but it's not the only accurate term.

Now that Vanguard has gotten the go-ahead to produce a women's version, maybe now they can start producing a true men's version.

I hope so, too. I always hated the "universal" size. They look strange, too small on men's shirts, too big on women's.

I doubt we'll ever get anything of the same quality as what's produced for the AF, though.

Unfortunately, that's probably true. We'd look better with them. We'd probably look better if they took off the "CAP" as well. It is on the nametag, after all.

[Eclipse]

I purchased a set of shoulder marks (not "epaulet sleeves", Bob) ...

A little light reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_mark

My first few years in the Air Force, they were commonly called "shoulder marks", but they have been referred to lately as "epaulets", even though that's an error. 39-1 calls it an "epaulet sleeve".

Heh...

[jimmydeanno]

The lack of attention to detail in whomever approves this stuff--Susie Parker, I suspect--is appalling.

I would suspect you would be suspecting incorrectly.  CAP has someone at NHQ that acts as a Vanguard Liaison.  I'm sure Susie (who does a great job by the way with what her actual job is) has better things to do that to be figuring out uniform item specifications and whether or not Vanguard is producing them to our non-existent specifications.

I would try to avoid calling out specific NHQ employees for doing a bad job without any sort of evidence of such...it's a pop shot and they can't exactly defend themselves.

[Spike]

I walked into an MCSS (Air Force) Tuesday, and on the back of said blue rank things we are arguing about it called them "Rank Slides".  Guess there are different names associated with said insignia, based on which company manufactures the item. 

[Major Carrales]

The actual "shoulder strap" on the shirt is an epaulet (you know, that fabric thing with the button and all)  I was rudely told by a long time CAPTALK/Civil Air Portal denizen that they were called SHOULDER MARKS.  I used that parlance until I realized that most people didn't know what I was talking about.

Epaulet sleeve is the most accurate since it is a sleeve that slides over an epaulet.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I think the Army delineates enlisted from officer grades with the stripe on the shoulder marks.

In the Air Force, field grade officers wear one thin stripe, while general grade officers wear a thick stripe against the shoulder seam and a thin stripe on the neck end of the shoulder mark. Enlisted personnel no longer wear shoulder marks, instead reverting to sleeve stripes for all grades.

[Hawk200]

I walked into an MCSS (Air Force) Tuesday, and on the back of said blue rank things we are arguing about it called them "Rank Slides".  Guess there are different names associated with said insignia, based on which company manufactures the item.

That's pretty much what it boils down to. There are many companies that will only accept their terminology, and if you use something else they act like you're speaking Latin or are from Mars. They're the type of companies that make you wish that there were other ones that could provide the product with a lot less snarkiness.

Most reasonable people will know what you're talking about if they're familiar with military type uniforms.

[Lt Oliv]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

NO, Ollie, you got the thread wrong.

The complaint was not that the epaulet sleeves are different, we all know that.

The complaint was that the QUALITY of our epaulet sleeve was far less than the epaulet sleeve used by the Air Force and made by the same manufacturer.

Unless your point is that we are unworthy of high-quality uniform items.  If that is the case, you are truly a pathetic individual.

[Lt Oliv]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

NO, Ollie, you got the thread wrong.

The complaint was not that the epaulet sleeves are different, we all know that.

The complaint was that the QUALITY of our epaulet sleeve was far less than the epaulet sleeve used by the Air Force and made by the same manufacturer.

Unless your point is that we are unworthy of high-quality uniform items.  If that is the case, you are truly a pathetic individual.

I just ordered a set of epaulet sleeves.  While they may not be military specs, they are also not of "poor" quality. 

My point was that if you want milspec items, wear the Corporate uniform.

But then again, I'm simply a "pathetic individual."  Perhaps you'd like to draw up a 2a to that effect so that my new status can be reflected on eServices, seeing as how you are above common courtesy.