grey epilates

[DrJbdm]

    I have noticed how completely different our grey epilates are from regular Air Force blue epilates, and I'm talking about more than just color! 

    They are wider, less tapered and shorter then Air Force epilates not to mention not nearly as stiff and well formed. Was it just simply too hard for Vanguard to simply make a direct copy of Air Force epilates except for the grey color and the embroidery to read CAP on them? I know they now make male and female versions of the grey epilates, but while they may have done some work on the female version, they have not changed the male version at all.

   Does anyone know of a super secret source for getting higher quality grey epilates that look and feel professional and are comparable to the regular Air Force ones? Please PM me as I am sure we don't want to post the good information on here.

[Eclipse]

I tried epilates for a while, but I hurt my back...

[DrJbdm]

How did you get a picture of my girlfriend?   

[JC004]

they are shorter to fit on the female shirts

[Eclipse]

For clarity...


The piece of cloth sewn to the shirt or jacket on the shoulder is the epaulet.

The grade insignia is a part of an epaulet sleeve.

To the original question, this is not a "Vanguard issue" per-se.  The epaulet sleeves from the Bookstore were the same "not the same" quality, however there has been a noticeable drop in quality in the last year or two.  The ones VG is selling are not as thick, nor is the embroidery stitching as dense as on the older revisions, though frankly its not something the average member would probably even notice.

I'm not personally aware of any other sources - this is one of those things that I believe the "Big H" was just reselling.  I suppose you could always do your own run - but that would not be cheap, and there's no guarantee they'd be any better. (Man I wish I'd picked up that embroidery system when I had the chance!)

This is another reason we should standardize on the CSU - easy to get insignia.

I was able to get a fair number of sleeves from 3rd parties from the original Bookstore runs, and I'm seeking out the same thing well in advance of my next bump so I will have them.

[Major Carrales]

I tried epilates for a while, but I hurt my back...

Picture of girlfriend? THE SIMS 3.

[VPI18]

Does anyone know of a super secret source for getting higher quality grey epilates that look and feel professional and are comparable to the regular Air Force ones? Please PM me as I am sure we don’t want to post the good information on here.

It is not recommended to pull out hair by the root in order to comply with AF grooming standards.

Epilate-to remove a hair from a part of the body by forcible extraction, electrolysis, or loosening at the root by chemical means.

[Eclipse]

[CadetProgramGuy]

    I have noticed how completely different our grey epilates are from regular Air Force blue epilates, and I'm talking about more than just color! 

    They are wider, less tapered and shorter then Air Force epilates not to mention not nearly as stiff and well formed. Was it just simply too hard for Vanguard to simply make a direct copy of Air Force epilates except for the grey color and the embroidery to read CAP on them? I know they now make male and female versions of the grey epilates, but while they may have done some work on the female version, they have not changed the male version at all.

   Does anyone know of a super secret source for getting higher quality grey epilates that look and feel professional and are comparable to the regular Air Force ones? Please PM me as I am sure we don't want to post the good information on here.

I use epaulet stiffiners.  It creates a smooth finish to them.  If you can't find any stiffners, use a wire hanger, cut and bent to shape.

[DrJbdm]

   Yes, I typically use epaulet stiffiners and they help to a small degree. I just wish who ever designed these things would have just used mil-spec process.

   I suspect these are a high profit item for Vanguard, much cheaper to manufacture then regular Air Force mil-spec epaulets and sold for just as a high price point.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Memo from the President of Vanguard:

Yes, I know there are complaints of poor quality in CAP insignia.  Management is aware of the problem.  Management is also aware that the CAP nitwits can't go anywhere else, so while they will whine incessantly, their command has assured us of an exclusive contract.

Tell them to shut up and suck it up... in a nice way, of course.

Signed,

Joe Vanguard.

[Hawk200]

Memo from the President of Vanguard:

Yes, I know there are complaints of poor quality in CAP insignia.  Management is aware of the problem.  Management is also aware that the CAP nitwits can't go anywhere else, so while they will whine incessantly, their command has assured us of an exclusive contract.

Tell them to shut up and suck it up... in a nice way, of course.

Signed,

Joe Vanguard.

That memo was supposed to be an internal communication. The van will be at your house shortly. Make sure to put your affairs in order.

[AlphaSigOU]

Plenty of room in that secret underground bunker over here called 'Kwaj-tanamo'! Oh no... here comes Kwaj Five-0 to take me away!!! 

(In reality, the few bunkers on island are abandoned Japanese bunkers and pillboxes.)

[Spike]

   Yes, I typically use epaulet stiffiners and they help to a small degree. I just wish who ever designed these things would have just used mil-spec process.

   I suspect these are a high profit item for Vanguard, much cheaper to manufacture then regular Air Force mil-spec epaulets and sold for just as a high price point.

Sad.....but they used "CAP specs" when designing them.  Vanguard already uses very strict Government specifications on all of their other products.  It was NHQ that was so lax.  So if you want to blame anyone blame NHQ!!!

[DrJbdm]

  I may investigate the possibility of my local law enforcement uniform shop / alteration shop giving me a bid for some Air Force quality grey epaulet slides. I may just have them make them without the CAP on them so that they don't violate CAPs exclusive agreement with Vanguard. I know of a number of other places that can then add CAP to the slide for very little cost.

  CAP does not control a grey colored epaulet with military rank on it. They do however control a grey colored epaulet with military rank that reads CAP on it.

   I suspect it may be a bit expensive, but with enough orders it may be doable. I'll post details if I ever take this on.

[Strick]

That would be great, have them add the CAP, IT STANDS FOR: Community Action Program.   

[afgeo4]

Okay... The Air Force has male and female version of epaulet sleeves. The male version is longer and the female is thus shorter, to fit the female blouse epaulets, which are also shorter.

The CAP epaulet sleeves were made in the female version for everyone as they would fit all epaulets, male and female.

That's why they're different. There is also more than one supplier for USAF epaulet sleeves. Both are sold in MCSS stores. They are of different quality and price.

[PHall]

Okay... The Air Force has male and female version of epaulet sleeves. The male version is longer and the female is thus shorter, to fit the female blouse epaulets, which are also shorter.

The CAP epaulet sleeves were made in the female version for everyone as they would fit all epaulets, male and female.

That's why they're different. There is also more than one supplier for USAF epaulet sleeves. Both are sold in MCSS stores. They are of different quality and price.

I believe if you check with Vanguard you will find that the CAP Senior Member Grade Insignia Epaulets are now available in both sizes now, just like the Air Force ones.

[Eclipse]

They are.

Male:


Female:

[Pylon]

They are.

Male:


Female:

Is it me or does the female epaulet sleeve look unnecessarily wide? 

Compare to the same AF ones.  Note the relationship of the embroidery size to the edges.

Male:


Female:

[DrJbdm]

I ordered the male epaulets from Vanguard and they are noticibly different from the Air Force epaulets, they are a little shorter and a little wider and not nearly as tapered. Apparently all Vanguard did was change the female version to be a little wider and shorter then the CAP male version.

[a2capt]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

[Spike]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

That is not Vanguards fault.  They are using CAP NHQ specifications, not government specs, per Cap's agreement with them.

If they were to follow Govt spec for Air Force devices, they would cost THE SAME, and be of much better quality.  Don't forget, some Vanguard CAP Products have a CAP "exclusive use" charge built into them. 

Don't believe me, call Vanguard and ask!

[JohnKachenmeister]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

That is not Vanguards fault.  They are using CAP NHQ specifications, not government specs, per Cap's agreement with them.

If they were to follow Govt spec for Air Force devices, they would cost THE SAME, and be of much better quality.  Don't forget, some Vanguard CAP Products have a CAP "exclusive use" charge built into them. 

Don't believe me, call Vanguard and ask!

If we didn't believe you, what in the world makes you think we would believe Vanguard?

Al Capone was a legitimate businessman who never filed income taxes, because he never owed any.  If you don't believe me, ask Al Capone!

[DrJbdm]

I spoke with the local police uniform insignia place that does most of the patches for the police departments in Texas and for several LE agencies around the nation.

My contact there, looked in a provider catalog, but they have mostly Army style epaulets with the silver line before the grade insignia. (in the Air Force, company grade officers have a silver line before the grade, in the army, all officers have a silver line before the grade)


He did say that they could manufacture what I was looking for, but that it would require 25 orders with a cost of about $4.00 per epaulet. ($8 a pair) That's 25 Captains insignia, 25 Majors Insignia, ect, ect.


They could make these things to the Air Force specifications for length and width in a grey color matching the current grey that we wear.

[Eclipse]

My contact there, looked in a provider catalog, but they have mostly Army style epaulets with the silver line before the grade insignia. (in the Air Force, company grade officers have a silver line before the grade, in the army, all officers have a silver line before the grade)

In the Air Force, and CAP, Field grade officers have a silver line before the grade.

Company grades have no line.





Army epaulet sleeves have a gold stripe.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Beat me to the correction!

[DrJbdm]

ooops, I just caught it. I had it all mixed up...I guess I need to proof read what I write better.... Thanks for correcting my mix up.

[Mustang]

   Yes, I typically use epaulet stiffiners and they help to a small degree. I just wish who ever designed these things would have just used mil-spec process.

   I suspect these are a high profit item for Vanguard, much cheaper to manufacture then regular Air Force mil-spec epaulets and sold for just as a high price point.

Sad.....but they used "CAP specs" when designing them.  Vanguard already uses very strict Government specifications on all of their other products.  It was NHQ that was so lax.  So if you want to blame anyone blame NHQ!!!

Agreed.  The lack of attention to detail in whomever approves this stuff--Susie Parker, I suspect--is appalling.

[Mustang]

What else I have noticed is that there is a much thinner variety being produced by/for VG that are even crummier than what some people said was substandard already.

They are not nearly as thick, and usually look like they are crumbled up paper like wrinkled. As in they can wrinkle where as the prior variety, you'd be hard pressed to cause a wrinkle.

The cheap cheesy thin look is what I don't care for, about them.

Vanguard must have switched to The Hock Shop's source!  I purchased a set of shoulder marks (not "epaulet sleeves", Bob) from The Hock maybe 10 years ago, the quality was just as you describe. A complete waste of money.

Now that Vanguard has gotten the go-ahead to produce a women's version, maybe now they can start producing a true men's version. 

I doubt we'll ever get anything of the same quality as what's produced for the AF, though.

[Hawk200]

I purchased a set of shoulder marks (not "epaulet sleeves", Bob) ...

A little light reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_mark

My first few years in the Air Force, they were commonly called "shoulder marks", but they have been referred to lately as "epaulets", even though that's an error. 39-1 calls it an "epaulet sleeve". I know where you're coming from when it comes to "shoulder marks", but it's not the only accurate term.

Now that Vanguard has gotten the go-ahead to produce a women's version, maybe now they can start producing a true men's version.

I hope so, too. I always hated the "universal" size. They look strange, too small on men's shirts, too big on women's.

I doubt we'll ever get anything of the same quality as what's produced for the AF, though.

Unfortunately, that's probably true. We'd look better with them. We'd probably look better if they took off the "CAP" as well. It is on the nametag, after all.

[Eclipse]

I purchased a set of shoulder marks (not "epaulet sleeves", Bob) ...

A little light reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_mark

My first few years in the Air Force, they were commonly called "shoulder marks", but they have been referred to lately as "epaulets", even though that's an error. 39-1 calls it an "epaulet sleeve".

Heh...

[jimmydeanno]

The lack of attention to detail in whomever approves this stuff--Susie Parker, I suspect--is appalling.

I would suspect you would be suspecting incorrectly.  CAP has someone at NHQ that acts as a Vanguard Liaison.  I'm sure Susie (who does a great job by the way with what her actual job is) has better things to do that to be figuring out uniform item specifications and whether or not Vanguard is producing them to our non-existent specifications.

I would try to avoid calling out specific NHQ employees for doing a bad job without any sort of evidence of such...it's a pop shot and they can't exactly defend themselves.

[Spike]

I walked into an MCSS (Air Force) Tuesday, and on the back of said blue rank things we are arguing about it called them "Rank Slides".  Guess there are different names associated with said insignia, based on which company manufactures the item. 

[Major Carrales]

The actual "shoulder strap" on the shirt is an epaulet (you know, that fabric thing with the button and all)  I was rudely told by a long time CAPTALK/Civil Air Portal denizen that they were called SHOULDER MARKS.  I used that parlance until I realized that most people didn't know what I was talking about.

Epaulet sleeve is the most accurate since it is a sleeve that slides over an epaulet.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I think the Army delineates enlisted from officer grades with the stripe on the shoulder marks.

In the Air Force, field grade officers wear one thin stripe, while general grade officers wear a thick stripe against the shoulder seam and a thin stripe on the neck end of the shoulder mark. Enlisted personnel no longer wear shoulder marks, instead reverting to sleeve stripes for all grades.

[Hawk200]

I walked into an MCSS (Air Force) Tuesday, and on the back of said blue rank things we are arguing about it called them "Rank Slides".  Guess there are different names associated with said insignia, based on which company manufactures the item.

That's pretty much what it boils down to. There are many companies that will only accept their terminology, and if you use something else they act like you're speaking Latin or are from Mars. They're the type of companies that make you wish that there were other ones that could provide the product with a lot less snarkiness.

Most reasonable people will know what you're talking about if they're familiar with military type uniforms.

[Lt Oliv]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

NO, Ollie, you got the thread wrong.

The complaint was not that the epaulet sleeves are different, we all know that.

The complaint was that the QUALITY of our epaulet sleeve was far less than the epaulet sleeve used by the Air Force and made by the same manufacturer.

Unless your point is that we are unworthy of high-quality uniform items.  If that is the case, you are truly a pathetic individual.

[Lt Oliv]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

NO, Ollie, you got the thread wrong.

The complaint was not that the epaulet sleeves are different, we all know that.

The complaint was that the QUALITY of our epaulet sleeve was far less than the epaulet sleeve used by the Air Force and made by the same manufacturer.

Unless your point is that we are unworthy of high-quality uniform items.  If that is the case, you are truly a pathetic individual.

I just ordered a set of epaulet sleeves.  While they may not be military specs, they are also not of "poor" quality. 

My point was that if you want milspec items, wear the Corporate uniform.

But then again, I'm simply a "pathetic individual."  Perhaps you'd like to draw up a 2a to that effect so that my new status can be reflected on eServices, seeing as how you are above common courtesy.

[Pylon]

Knock off the personal attacks now - both between posters and against NHQ staffers.

[Major Carrales]

I'd like to point out that the primary complaint in this thread is that the CAP epaulet sleeve differs from the USAF epaulet sleeve.  Allow me to remind certain folks....

CAP is not the USAF and vice versa

However, if you really want to wear the Air Force bling, I'd remind you that the Corporate uniform allows you to wear the actual air force epaulet (you just have to look like a cross between a USAF Officer and a civilian pilot).

NO, Ollie, you got the thread wrong.

The complaint was not that the epaulet sleeves are different, we all know that.

The complaint was that the QUALITY of our epaulet sleeve was far less than the epaulet sleeve used by the Air Force and made by the same manufacturer.

Unless your point is that we are unworthy of high-quality uniform items.  If that is the case, you are truly a pathetic individual.

I just ordered a set of epaulet sleeves.  While they may not be military specs, they are also not of "poor" quality. 

My point was that if you want milspec items, wear the Corporate uniform.

But then again, I'm simply a "pathetic individual."  Perhaps you'd like to draw up a 2a to that effect so that my new status can be reflected on eServices, seeing as how you are above common courtesy.

Again, we have the CAP inferiority complex inherent in the comments that have frustrated both of you, Ollie and Kach. 

The gray should marks in question are not as bad as everyone makes them out.  I have several pair of them from both the Hock and Vanguard and they, when properly maintained, look professional.  the issue stems from people feeling all CAP items are inferior.  It is a manifestation of peoples wish to wear USAF type shoulder marks, but being denied.  They then become overly critical of the CAP ones.

If one believes that our should marks are supposed to look exactly like USAF only gray and with CAP embroidery, then they are (in their opinion) wrong.  However, if one understands that they are CAP shoulder marks and not USAF ones, then this whole conversation is moot.

[Major Carrales]

Knock off the personal attacks now - both between posters and against NHQ staffers.

Agreed, ad hominem attacks serve no purpose here.  The attacks on CAPNHQ staff is also very uncalled for and unbecoming.

[NCRblues]

My god, that got nasty fast did it not? Come on folks lets be civil to each other, i guess the core values dont apply here. Its a discussion board not a slander board. we are supposed to be officers, set the example, and we wonder why cadets sometimes act like they do

[Major Carrales]

My god, that got nasty fast did it not? Come on folks lets be civil to each other, i guess the core values dont apply here. Its a discussion board not a slander board. we are supposed to be officers, set the example, and we wonder why cadets sometimes act like they do

My dear friend, there are some that think that things like "Core Values" are hokey, the sort of hokum that we have come to expect from a world where millions of dollars go into selling toilet cleaners, charcoal and anything else on a 30 second commercial. 

However, if we are to be worth our metal, we should resolve to keep the core values.  To make them into "corps values," those that are shared by the body of the organization.

If we adhere to that...and live the mantra INTEGRITY, EXCELLENCE, VOLUNTEER SERVICE and RESPECT; then you and I will never have to make posts like this one.

[NCRblues]

I was so frustrated by what was put here, that is constantly put here that I didn't even think about core/corps. The way some treat other volunteers is appalling, this is why I left cap the first time....

[DrJbdm]

  Major C,  I must disagree with you on this issue. The CAP shoulder marks should be of the same quality, and look just like USAF ones but only in grey. After all, they are made by the same folks who make the USAF marks.

  By not having the same quality shoulder marks as the USAF then that is in a sense saying we are not worthy enough as CAP officers to have high quality items such as these. I believe that if we are going to wear an Air Force uniform then we have an obligation to look as professional as possible and as close to Air Force standard as we possibly can.

   I know that there are people in CAP who believe that what we have is perfectly acceptable, but there are also people like me who believe that we have a right to have high quality CAP items made in milspec fashion.  What we have now is not even close to the quality of what we should have. But everyone may have a different outlook and thats ok.

[Major Carrales]

I was so frustrated by what was put here, that is constantly put here that I didn't even think about core/corps. The way some treat other volunteers is appalling, this is why I left cap the first time....

It begins with us.  There are times we will slip a little one Civility, 'tis the nature of people to want to give into a good ole fashioned  cursing or rant.  I have resisted it many times.

Should we call people out for it?  I would normally, in the governance of society say no, however, in CAP we have taken an oath at application...

(READ CAREFULLY BEFORE SIGNING FRONT OF APPLICATION!)

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that:

I understand membership in Civil Air Patrol is a privilege, not a right, and that membership is on a year-to-year basis subject to annual renewal by CAP.  I further understand failure to meet membership eligibility criteria will result in automatic termination at any time.

I understand only Civil Air Patrol corporate officers are authorized to obligate funds, equipment, or services.

I understand Civil Air Patrol is not liable for loss or damage to my personal property when operated for or by Civil Air Patrol.

I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of Civil Air Patrol and agree to be guided by the CAP constitution and Bylaws and comply with CAP rules and regulations as from time to time may be amended or promulgated.

I agree to abide by the decisions of those in authority of Civil Air Patrol

I certify that all the information on this application is presently correct and any false statement may be cause to deny membership.  I understand I am obligated to notify Civil Air Patrol if there are any changes to the background information on the front of this form and further understand that failure to report such changes may be grounds for membership termination.

I understand that this Oath of Application is a part of this application for senior membership in Civil Air Patrol and that my signature on the form constitutes evidence of that understanding.

The "decisions of those in authority of Civil Air Patrol" is to have in  place the CORE VALUES.  They are not just for cadets...an item on a test...they are for us all to live by.

[Major Carrales]

  Major C,  I must disagree with you on this issue. The CAP shoulder marks should be of the same quality, and look just like USAF ones but only in grey. After all, they are made by the same folks who make the USAF marks.

  By not having the same quality shoulder marks as the USAF then that is in a sense saying we are not worthy enough as CAP officers to have high quality items such as these. I believe that if we are going to wear an Air Force uniform then we have an obligation to look as professional as possible and as close to Air Force standard as we possibly can.

   I know that there are people in CAP who believe that what we have is perfectly acceptable, but there are also people like me who believe that we have a right to have high quality CAP items made in milspec fashion.  What we have now is not even close to the quality of what we should have. But everyone may have a different outlook and thats ok.

You are, of course, free to disagree.  However, I think we agree more than you allude to.  I have not purchased CAP shoulder marks since I was first promoted, and two sets of them were given to my by a recently promoted Lt Col.  There are of excellent quality.  I have not made a recent purchase of CAP shoulder marks so may not see the effect mentioned.

It may just be an oversight at present.  It may be time to suggest up the channels that new insignia conform to some decided upon standard.   However, that would place two different sets of shoulder marks in "circulation."   I would consider the idea of having to replace the current shoulder marks with NEW CAP-SPEC an unnecessary expense.  One that would be reflected in the thousands of CAP Officers that would have to make this purchase...then, we would have to endure the countless threads here about the obvious "VANGUARD CONSPIRACY" that the actions resulted from. 

[SamFranklin]

I wonder if some of the CAP-specific accoutrements are of "so-so" quality simply because of economies of scale.

To produce a high quality item for a tiny market (How many Lt Col sleeves will you sell this year? SFO sleeves? Master Historian Badges?), the unit cost is apt to be pretty high. I'm glad that the contracting people found a vendor who can make accoutrements of satisfactory quality at an okay price. I'm glad they didn't try to duplicate "mil spec" because I don't want to pay 50% more just to satisfy a handful of nitpicky people on this board.

Also, lots of our items have no military equivalent. What is "mil spec" for a MLO badge?

Could it be that simple? Or is there really a conspiracy by NHQ employees to aggravate a handful of captalkers about the quality of epaulet sleeves, or whatever it is that the last person to edit Wikipedia calls them?

[Cecil DP]

It may just be an oversight at present.  It may be time to suggest up the channels that new insignia conform to some decided upon standard.   However, that would place two different sets of should marks in "circulation."   I would consider the idea of having to replace the current shoulder marks with NEW CAP-SPEC an unnecessary expense.  One that would be reflected in the thousands of CAP Officers that would have to make this purchase...then, we would have to endure the countless threads here about the obvious "VANGUARD CONSPIRACY" that the actions resulted from.  (qouted from Maj Corrales post).

The cost to change insignia would be relatively minor compared to the costs of other uniform items which have been mandated and than scraped after a couple of years. In addition there is no need to require  the new rank insignia until one is either promoted or irrepairably ruins the current set. If the current insignia looks bad it can only reflect on the organization than the military standard should be adopted. I cannot imagine that National HQ didn't specify a standard or require that the grade insignia meet the AF standard in the first place. 

[Mustang]

Knock off the personal attacks now - both between posters and against NHQ staffers.

Agreed, ad hominem attacks serve no purpose here.  The attacks on CAPNHQ staff is also very uncalled for and unbecoming.

Pleaseohplease point out where anyone attacked the NHQ staff.  I double-dare ya.

[davidsinn]

   Yes, I typically use epaulet stiffiners and they help to a small degree. I just wish who ever designed these things would have just used mil-spec process.

   I suspect these are a high profit item for Vanguard, much cheaper to manufacture then regular Air Force mil-spec epaulets and sold for just as a high price point.

Sad.....but they used "CAP specs" when designing them.  Vanguard already uses very strict Government specifications on all of their other products.  It was NHQ that was so lax.  So if you want to blame anyone blame NHQ!!!

Agreed.  The lack of attention to detail in whomever approves this stuff--Susie Parker, I suspect--is appalling.

You did. Right there.

[Mustang]

That's not an attack in the slightest.

[Mustang]

I wonder if some of the CAP-specific accoutrements are of "so-so" quality simply because of economies of scale.

To produce a high quality item for a tiny market (How many Lt Col sleeves will you sell this year? SFO sleeves? Master Historian Badges?), the unit cost is apt to be pretty high.

I dunno, the stuff produced for exclusive use by the generals and the NEC always seems to turn out pretty nice. 

[Gunner C]

Having worked for a time in the clothing industry, I can see how we get a different "grade" of sleeves than "Ma Blue".  There is a slippage in quality of manufacturing and materials.  This is simply due to us being a smaller customer.  I believe this was mentioned above.  We could have Vanguard supply us with the same quality as USAF insignia, but the price would rise.  When I got Lt Col sleeves (at a neighboring AFB), I was shocked not only how much better they were than the CAP sleeves but also shocked at the price.  In fact, there were two "grades" of sleeves, the difference was the style of the embroidery of the leaves.  I believe the thread was of a much higher quality.  I had money burning a hole in my pocket, so I got the "high octane" variety.

Uniform items are expensive enough.  Let's face it, we're getting what the market can stand.  They're fine for our purposes.