Changes to FROs and release process

[N Harmon]

See the Interim Change Letter:
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/2009_07_23_FROs_27815180D4D04.pdf

Link to FRO Course:
https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/dot/school/fro/

Comment: There is no mention if FRO qualifications will expire after three years like other Ops quals, or if it will be one of the "special case" qualifications. Either way, it is good to see some centralized management to the process.

[Larry Mangum]

I just retook the on-line course as a refresher, and I think they have improved it over the last time I took it.

[RiverAux]

I fully support putting it into Ops quals, but why wouldn't you still want it as a duty position?  Don't you want something officially appointing certain personnel to do local flight releases at the unit level?  Say I'm in a unit that has several generic FRO-qualified people, an IC, and OSC, and a AOBD.  It appears that any of them would be ok to release my flight even the ones that are supposed to be doing mostly mission-related releases.   Seems like a potential paperwork nightmare make sure you got everybody's stuff if there isn't a single FRO (with a few alternates). 

I note that they seem to intend to cut down on the number of FROs, but if all the mission FRO types are valid to release any flight then they're probably going to see an net increase. 

[ZigZag911]

I note that they seem to intend to cut down on the number of FROs, but if all the mission FRO types are valid to release any flight then they're probably going to see an net increase.

Under the existing system ICs, OSCs, AOBDs not assigned as FROs can only release flights for missions. I would assume some modification will be forthcoming to clarify who releases what, and when.

[Short Field]

Under the existing system ICs, OSCs, AOBDs not assigned as FROs can only release flights for missions.

Cite please for OSCs and AOBDs releasing missions.  I can only find 60-1 para 2-5d which is the authority for the IC or CMD to release flights on a supervised mission.   I cannot find anything that authorizes a non-FRO OSC or AOBD to release flights on a supervised mission.

[RiverAux]

I've never seen an IC release a flight on anything but the smallest missions.  Anytime there is a base staff set up its the AOBD or OSC releaseing them with the authority delegated to them by the IC. 

[Camas]

Don't you want something officially appointing certain personnel to do local flight releases at the unit level?

I was under the impression that only winglevel FRO's could do flight releases. Have I missed something? Just asking.

[Short Field]

I've never seen an IC release a flight on anything but the smallest missions.  Anytime there is a base staff set up its the AOBD or OSC releaseing them with the authority delegated to them by the IC.

Cite please.  I am a IC2 and I have never read anything, been told, or seen anything that as an IC I can delegate my flight release authority.   If you use the IMU, that "delegation" may be to give someone your FRO Password and Pin so they can impersonate you on the system. 

[RiverAux]

Don't know about IMU as my wing doesn't use it. 

How about the good old 104 which requires the signature of the pilot, briefing officer and "Ops/Clearance/Dispatch"? Doesn't say "IC".  Haven't you wondered why we make AOBDs have FRO training?  Why they are required to demonstrate several tasks identical to what FROs do to get qualified?  Why they are the ones keeping the CAPR107, which is the mission version of the CAPF 99 maintained by FROs? 

I will grant you that CAP hasn't done a great job in explaining this sort of thing. 

If you are an IC on a mission with a multiple planes in the air and you are spending your time reviewing and approving each individual flight you might want to review the ICS system a little bit as you are micromanaging my friend. 

[Short Field]

An IC running a mission had better know the CAP Regulations and had better make sure they are followed on the mission.  Read CAPR 60-1 para 2-5d and it spells out who is authorized to release a CAP aircraft on a mission.  If you don't have a valid flight release, then that aircrew is totally at risk - no liability insurance, no medical insurance, no life insurance and a potentially big bill for the family to pay for damage to CAP assets. 

If I am running a mission and do not have a FRO available to release the flights, then I do it.  I run legal missions - if a crew dies on the mission, their families will get benefits.  AOBDs are required to complete the FRO course but the Wing is not required to make them FROs.  I am not a FRO - I can only release missions when I am signed in as the IC.  I have found no regulation that allows me to delegate that responsibility.  Most times we have a FRO at the mission base - most of the time it is sometime one who is not qualified as a AOBD.

ICS is great - but it does not trump CAP regulations.

[Short Field]

The ICL seems to imply that AOBDs will be FROs - and not just for missions.  I believe that is a step in the right direction.  If the Wing does not trust a person's judgement enough to make them a FRO, then maybe they shouldn't make them an AOBD.

I can see AOBDs who will not want to be on the "on-call FRO" list as they will not want to get the 0430 call for a flight release when someone is just taking a CAP plane up for currrency.

[RiverAux]

An IC running a mission had better know the CAP Regulations and had better make sure they are followed on the mission.  Read CAPR 60-1 para 2-5d and it spells out who is authorized to release a CAP aircraft on a mission. 

All I can say is that we disagree on what the regulations say in this area.  Seeing as how we have consistently gotten super grades on our SAREVALs while doing it this way, CAP-USAF both at state and region level obviously doesn't agree with you that an IC has to sign off on each 104 to make it legal. 

There are inconsistencies in this area of the regulations that should be clarified. 

[KyCAP]

Speaking of VALID releases.
If you read the letter then it is IMPLYING that after 10/1 that only if a release is entered into WMIRS will the release be VALID.  no internet, no release.

[Short Field]

All I can say is that we disagree on what the regulations say in this area.  Seeing as how we have consistently gotten super grades on our SAREVALs while doing it this way, CAP-USAF both at state and region level obviously doesn't agree with you that an IC has to sign off on each 104 to make it legal. 

I NEVER said a IC has to sign off on each 104 to make it legal.  I SAID a FRO has to sign off each 104 to make it legal.  The CAPRs give the IC FRO authorization on a mission.  You are confusing the issue.   Please provide a specific case in which the IC delegated flight release authority to a non-FRO.  That would be an illegal flight release and needs to be identified up the chain.  As I asked before, if you have a CAPR cite that gives IC's authority to delegate FRO authority, then please cite it.  The regulations are clear on this issue.

[RiverAux]

And AOBDs ARE FROs on missions.  Thats why the heck they make them take the course and do all the FRO-type tasks to get qualified. 

[Short Field]

Cite please.

[RiverAux]

Well I already referenced the SQTRs and the CAPF104 to the SQTRs
But there is a key sentence in the ICL that started this thread that proves conclusively that AOBDs and OSCs HAVE ALWAYS had the ability to release flights:

It states that AOBDS and OSCs who currently don't have FRO training and don't get it done by 30 Sept 2009

will lose their qualifications and their ability to release flights on on 1 October 2009

. 

That certainly proves that NHQ thinks that any AOBD or OSC was already qualified under the existing regulations to release a flight on a mission whether or not they have been designed an FRO under 60-1. 

As I said earlier, this point is certainly not clear in the regulations, but NHQ has obviously used the same interpretation of what we have as my Wing has done. 

[Short Field]

You sure reference a lot of stuff that doesn't direct or authorize anything.  AOBDs have to have FRO training - they do not have to be appointed FROs.  That may change with this ICL.

Let me help you with some CAPR Cites (paraphrased in a few spots for brevity):

CAPR 60-1 2-5a:  A flight release is required for all CAP flight activities.

CAPR 60-1 2-5b:  FROs are CAP senior members designated in writing as FROs by the Executive Director, region or wing commander, or their designee.

CAPR 60-1 2-5d:  Flights may be released on a CAPF 99, CAPF 104, or CAPF 84.  For Supervised Missions the IC or CMD is also considered a FRO and may release any flight related to that mission.

Please provide a cite that states a AOBD is authorized to release flights without being a FRO designated in writing.  IAW para 2-5d, ICs and CMDs do not need to be designated a FRO in writing and the fact they are designated a IC or CMD allows them to release flights.


This is important stuff.  I know of one mission that was not released correctly, the aircraft crashed and killed all three CAP members on board.  All  the families got were bills for damage to the CAP aircraft.

[RiverAux]

Did you read my last post which quoted the new ICL as saying that current AOBDs and OSCs would lose their ability to release flights on missions if they didn't complete FRO training?  Doesn't this mean that RIGHT now they have that ability even if they aren't an otherwise designated FRO?   Proves my point 100% in black in white.

[Short Field]

Come on and get real.  What can you cite to show that non-FRO AOBDs and OSCs can release flights other than this ICL?  It does not exist.

I know you want to read the ICL as the source document showing that non-FRO OSCs and AOBDs could release flights for these past many years, but I just read it as saying that if you have not completed the FRO training - you will lose your IC, OSC, and AOBD qualification.   I only see the bit about losing flight release authority as applying to ICs, - since it was illegal for a non-FRO OSC or AOBD to act as a FRO on a mission.

ICL para 4:  (edited for brevity)  beginning on 3 Aug all qualified IC, OSCs, and AOBD that have completed FRO training online will automatically be listed  as approved FROs, and to become an IC, OSC, or AOBD in the future the member will have to be a qualified FRO. ICs, OSCs, or AOBDs that haven't completed the online FRO training course by 30 September 2009 or are not qualified FROs will lose their qualifications and the ability to release flights on 1 October 2009. However, once they complete the training and/or are approved as an FRO their qualifications will be reinstated.

[RiverAux]

Unfortunately, although I am trained to do a lot, teaching basic reading comprehension skills isn't one of those things, so I'll let it go. 

[cap235629]

you all make it seem like being an FRO is hard.  Knowing the regs is required for OSC and AOBD.  All I got out of FRO training was which form to fill out.  FILL IN THE BLANKS. Wow that is HARD.....

[Short Field]

Nothing hard about it.  Simply the legal issues invovled.

[SJFedor]

Don't you want something officially appointing certain personnel to do local flight releases at the unit level?

I was under the impression that only winglevel FRO's could do flight releases. Have I missed something? Just asking.

Varies from wing to wing. Some wings allow units to appoint local FRO's for each unit w/ a flight program. Some wings only appoint their FROs at the Wing level.

[Short Field]

Speaking of VALID releases.
If you read the letter then it is IMPLYING that after 10/1 that only if a release is entered into WMIRS will the release be VALID.  no internet, no release.

Just read via the WMU site  that National's response to "no internet, no WMIRS, no release" is to have the FRO contact the NOC via FM radio!   

[Eclipse]

Speaking of VALID releases.
If you read the letter then it is IMPLYING that after 10/1 that only if a release is entered into WMIRS will the release be VALID.  no internet, no release.

Just read via the WMU site  that National's response to "no internet, no WMIRS, no release" is to have the FRO contact the NOC via FM radio!

Lite rock?  Adult contemporary?  Maybe Alternative?

Seriously, its 2009 - how often are most FRO's that far away from a computer that this is going to be anything but another whining point.

A lot of people could do this on their phone.

[Larry Mangum]

Speaking of VALID releases.
If you read the letter then it is IMPLYING that after 10/1 that only if a release is entered into WMIRS will the release be VALID.  no internet, no release.

Just read via the WMU site  that National's response to "no internet, no WMIRS, no release" is to have the FRO contact the NOC via FM radio!   

Hmm, could that be because release are going to be done in the near future through WMIRS and they don't want to deal with the WMU?

[Short Field]

My bad, it was HF not FM - exact quote was " In an earlier statement, the NHQ staff indicated that, in the event of no internet capability, the NOC could be contacted using HF radio and would input the data.

I was just surprised at the HF comment.  I hope they take a phone call first - I have never used the HF for anything out of state.

I was also surprised that there are no paper releases that could be inputted into WMIRS at a later time.  We have released on paper as we push sorties out the door and then follow up and get anything completed on the IMU/WMU.  That appears to NOT be an option in the future - if you are not released on WMIRS, you are not released!   

[BK]

My bad, it was HF not FM - exact quote was " In an earlier statement, the NHQ staff indicated that, in the event of no internet capability, the NOC could be contacted using HF radio and would input the data.

I was just surprised at the HF comment.  I hope they take a phone call first - I have never used the HF for anything out of state.

I was also surprised that there are no paper releases that could be inputted into WMIRS at a later time.  We have released on paper as we push sorties out the door and then follow up and get anything completed on the IMU/WMU.  That appears to NOT be an option in the future - if you are not released on WMIRS, you are not released!

Here is part of a message that I just sent out to my Wing about the new FRO program:

"As some of you may have heard, "changes are a coming" to WMIRS beginning 1 October.  I want to give everyone a heads-up so that you will know what the changes are and what will be expected of you.

Starting 1 October, all flight release will be done via WMIRS.  The process is very simple but it will require you help to make it work.  Here is how the process will work:

1. The pilot (notice that I said pilot) will enter the flight request in WMIRS.  Simply go into WMIRS, select the mission number that you will use, and add a sortie.
2. A new drop-down box will appear in the upper left corner of the sortie add screen for selecting the FRO that you plan to use.  Complete all of the applicable boxes/entries on that screen.
3. When the sortie is added, an automatic email will be sent to the FRO selected letting him/her know that a release has been requested.
4. The FRO will then go to WMIRS.  A new link will appear on the Main page to allow the FRO to view pending releases.
    a. Select the sortie to be released
    b. Two check boxes will appear at the bottom of the requested sortie summary.  These check boxes will indicate that the FRO check list had been run and that the IMSAFE procedures were covered.
    c. The FRO will enter the checks and submit the request.  The sortie is now released.
5. Under no circumstances will a sortie be released without a call from the pilot to the FRO prior to the flight.  This will allow the FRO to cover the check list items and the IMSAFE procedures.
6. When the sortie is complete, the pilot (notice, I said pilot again) will enter the applicable flight time, Tach start/stop time, and fuel cost in WMIRS.  This will complete the WMIRS sortie and close the flight release.

But wait, you say that there is no way you can be near a computer 24/7?  No problem.  The FRO can still use a CAPF 99 to do releases when a computer is not available.  Remember, the pilot must call the FRO prior to takeoff and the FRO can complete the CAPF 99 entry and do the release they way that he/she did it before.  However, the WMIRS entries for the release must be done in the computer, just done after-the-fact.  Please remember, a flight release is not a flight release until the CAPF 99 is signed either physically or electronically via WMIRS.  The requirement for sending of the CAPF 99 every month to Wing will be deleted.  Additionally, an FRO application for smart phones is in the works.  It is not ready yet, but will be shortly (by the end of the year?).  This will give the FRO more flexibility.  Smart phone applications for Ops Qual are also in the works."

As a member of National's IT Committee, i know the above to be accurate.  I do not know how IMU/WMU will handle the process since my Wing does not use either.

[Thom]

But wait, you say that there is no way you can be near a computer 24/7?  No problem.  The FRO can still use a CAPF 99 to do releases when a computer is not available.  Remember, the pilot must call the FRO prior to takeoff and the FRO can complete the CAPF 99 entry and do the release they way that he/she did it before.  However, the WMIRS entries for the release must be done in the computer, just done after-the-fact.  Please remember, a flight release is not a flight release until the CAPF 99 is signed either physically or electronically via WMIRS.  The requirement for sending of the CAPF 99 every month to Wing will be deleted.  Additionally, an FRO application for smart phones is in the works.  It is not ready yet, but will be shortly (by the end of the year?).  This will give the FRO more flexibility.  Smart phone applications for Ops Qual are also in the works."

As a member of National's IT Committee, i know the above to be accurate.  I do not know how IMU/WMU will handle the process since my Wing does not use either.

Do we have this in writing somewhere?  Our new Wing Commander believes this is also the process to be used in the event that an FRO cannot access a computer to release the sortie in WMIRS, but I haven't seen this in writing.

Any source for the 'paper' option after October 1st?  Having just gone through a mini-inspection with the USAF I am really serious about collecting supporting documentation right now!   

Thom Hamilton

[davidsinn]

My bad, it was HF not FM - exact quote was " In an earlier statement, the NHQ staff indicated that, in the event of no internet capability, the NOC could be contacted using HF radio and would input the data.

I was just surprised at the HF comment.  I hope they take a phone call first - I have never used the HF for anything out of state.

I was also surprised that there are no paper releases that could be inputted into WMIRS at a later time.  We have released on paper as we push sorties out the door and then follow up and get anything completed on the IMU/WMU.  That appears to NOT be an option in the future - if you are not released on WMIRS, you are not released!

Here is part of a message that I just sent out to my Wing about the new FRO program:

"As some of you may have heard, "changes are a coming" to WMIRS beginning 1 October.  I want to give everyone a heads-up so that you will know what the changes are and what will be expected of you.

Starting 1 October, all flight release will be done via WMIRS.  The process is very simple but it will require you help to make it work.  Here is how the process will work:

1. The pilot (notice that I said pilot) will enter the flight request in WMIRS.  Simply go into WMIRS, select the mission number that you will use, and add a sortie.
2. A new drop-down box will appear in the upper left corner of the sortie add screen for selecting the FRO that you plan to use.  Complete all of the applicable boxes/entries on that screen.
3. When the sortie is added, an automatic email will be sent to the FRO selected letting him/her know that a release has been requested.
4. The FRO will then go to WMIRS.  A new link will appear on the Main page to allow the FRO to view pending releases.
    a. Select the sortie to be released
    b. Two check boxes will appear at the bottom of the requested sortie summary.  These check boxes will indicate that the FRO check list had been run and that the IMSAFE procedures were covered.
    c. The FRO will enter the checks and submit the request.  The sortie is now released.
5. Under no circumstances will a sortie be released without a call from the pilot to the FRO prior to the flight.  This will allow the FRO to cover the check list items and the IMSAFE procedures.
6. When the sortie is complete, the pilot (notice, I said pilot again) will enter the applicable flight time, Tach start/stop time, and fuel cost in WMIRS.  This will complete the WMIRS sortie and close the flight release.

But wait, you say that there is no way you can be near a computer 24/7?  No problem.  The FRO can still use a CAPF 99 to do releases when a computer is not available.  Remember, the pilot must call the FRO prior to takeoff and the FRO can complete the CAPF 99 entry and do the release they way that he/she did it before.  However, the WMIRS entries for the release must be done in the computer, just done after-the-fact.  Please remember, a flight release is not a flight release until the CAPF 99 is signed either physically or electronically via WMIRS.  The requirement for sending of the CAPF 99 every month to Wing will be deleted.  Additionally, an FRO application for smart phones is in the works.  It is not ready yet, but will be shortly (by the end of the year?).  This will give the FRO more flexibility.  Smart phone applications for Ops Qual are also in the works."

As a member of National's IT Committee, i know the above to be accurate.  I do not know how IMU/WMU will handle the process since my Wing does not use either.

Those smart phone apps you mentioned: are they just for one type or will you release them for different types of phones?

[KyCAP]

Speaking of VALID releases.
If you read the letter then it is IMPLYING that after 10/1 that only if a release is entered into WMIRS will the release be VALID.  no internet, no release.

Just read via the WMU site  that National's response to "no internet, no WMIRS, no release" is to have the FRO contact the NOC via FM radio!

Lite rock?  Adult contemporary?  Maybe Alternative?

Seriously, its 2009 - how often are most FRO's that far away from a computer that this is going to be anything but another whining point.

A lot of people could do this on their phone.

Eclipse - I have  Palm Treo 850 with Window Mobile 5.. MSRP when new $650 and still a current OS.   I can't do it from my phone because WMIRS uses Frames and the browser that I have loaded looks like the brady bunch square as a result.  It is INOP.

I know some about software development for these platforms and unless someone in some part of National wants to take on browser development for about half a dozen various browsers and OS platforms then functionality will vary and typically be mediocre.   It is my guess that the iPhone would be the CLOSEST to getting this done based on what I know after testing this on my iPod touch on Wifi just now.. 

Since I have 5000 minutes per month and unlimited data on Sprint, I won't be owning an iPhone for WMIRs anytime soon... 

[KyCAP]

My bad, it was HF not FM - exact quote was " In an earlier statement, the NHQ staff indicated that, in the event of no internet capability, the NOC could be contacted using HF radio and would input the data.

I was just surprised at the HF comment.  I hope they take a phone call first - I have never used the HF for anything out of state.

I was also surprised that there are no paper releases that could be inputted into WMIRS at a later time.  We have released on paper as we push sorties out the door and then follow up and get anything completed on the IMU/WMU.  That appears to NOT be an option in the future - if you are not released on WMIRS, you are not released!

Here is part of a message that I just sent out to my Wing about the new FRO program:

"As some of you may have heard, "changes are a coming" to WMIRS beginning 1 October.  I want to give everyone a heads-up so that you will know what the changes are and what will be expected of you.

Starting 1 October, all flight release will be done via WMIRS.  The process is very simple but it will require you help to make it work.  Here is how the process will work:

1. The pilot (notice that I said pilot) will enter the flight request in WMIRS.  Simply go into WMIRS, select the mission number that you will use, and add a sortie.
2. A new drop-down box will appear in the upper left corner of the sortie add screen for selecting the FRO that you plan to use.  Complete all of the applicable boxes/entries on that screen.
3. When the sortie is added, an automatic email will be sent to the FRO selected letting him/her know that a release has been requested.
4. The FRO will then go to WMIRS.  A new link will appear on the Main page to allow the FRO to view pending releases.
    a. Select the sortie to be released
    b. Two check boxes will appear at the bottom of the requested sortie summary.  These check boxes will indicate that the FRO check list had been run and that the IMSAFE procedures were covered.
    c. The FRO will enter the checks and submit the request.  The sortie is now released.
5. Under no circumstances will a sortie be released without a call from the pilot to the FRO prior to the flight.  This will allow the FRO to cover the check list items and the IMSAFE procedures.
6. When the sortie is complete, the pilot (notice, I said pilot again) will enter the applicable flight time, Tach start/stop time, and fuel cost in WMIRS.  This will complete the WMIRS sortie and close the flight release.

But wait, you say that there is no way you can be near a computer 24/7?  No problem.  The FRO can still use a CAPF 99 to do releases when a computer is not available.  Remember, the pilot must call the FRO prior to takeoff and the FRO can complete the CAPF 99 entry and do the release they way that he/she did it before.  However, the WMIRS entries for the release must be done in the computer, just done after-the-fact.  Please remember, a flight release is not a flight release until the CAPF 99 is signed either physically or electronically via WMIRS.  The requirement for sending of the CAPF 99 every month to Wing will be deleted.  Additionally, an FRO application for smart phones is in the works.  It is not ready yet, but will be shortly (by the end of the year?).  This will give the FRO more flexibility.  Smart phone applications for Ops Qual are also in the works."

As a member of National's IT Committee, i know the above to be accurate.  I do not know how IMU/WMU will handle the process since my Wing does not use either.

The current system works somewhat for what we need. 


If there is "something to work on" for IT, then consider building tools that make something operationally useful for the field like exposing web services to the wings so that we can use SOA tools like SOAP and XML to access the data for us more complex users and keeping the Access Database CAPwatch downloads for the less complicated users.  The "Access is not supported" doesn't hold water with me.  Access will go away when pigs fly as a core product to the Microsoft development platform and office suite.   Something useful like creating applications hosted at NHQ like Microsoft Speech server for operational alerting phones (voice), SMS and email for mission and day to day purposes would be a much better use of very valueable time than having OPS qual data on my PDA/Smartphone/etc.   

I have heard that interfaces from IMU to WMIRS are going to be stopped, but I haven't heard what are being opened up for the field to CONSUME OUR DATA in what ever way we choose to do other than through crude text file techniques.  Did IT forget what relational databases are for?

[KyCAP]

My bad, it was HF not FM - exact quote was " In an earlier statement, the NHQ staff indicated that, in the event of no internet capability, the NOC could be contacted using HF radio and would input the data.

I was just surprised at the HF comment.  I hope they take a phone call first - I have never used the HF for anything out of state.

I was also surprised that there are no paper releases that could be inputted into WMIRS at a later time.  We have released on paper as we push sorties out the door and then follow up and get anything completed on the IMU/WMU.  That appears to NOT be an option in the future - if you are not released on WMIRS, you are not released!

But wait, you say that there is no way you can be near a computer 24/7?  No problem.  The FRO can still use a CAPF 99 to do releases when a computer is not available.  Remember, the pilot must call the FRO prior to takeoff and the FRO can complete the CAPF 99 entry and do the release they way that he/she did it before.  However, the WMIRS entries for the release must be done in the computer, just done after-the-fact.  Please remember, a flight release is not a flight release until the CAPF 99 is signed either physically or electronically via WMIRS.  The requirement for sending of the CAPF 99 every month to Wing will be deleted.  Additionally, an FRO application for smart phones is in the works.  It is not ready yet, but will be shortly (by the end of the year?).  This will give the FRO more flexibility.  Smart phone applications for Ops Qual are also in the works."

As a member of National's IT Committee, i know the above to be accurate.  I do not know how IMU/WMU will handle the process since my Wing does not use either.

I am confused about your perception of this..  I am quite sure you read the ICL..

The second to last sentence in the ICL clearly says "This restriction supersedes CAPR 60-1 para 2-5d, and that regulation will be modified as soon as practical."   

So, the language says RESTRICTION, not ENHANCEMENT or ADDITIONAL METHOD..  to the language in that reg.. So.. What is CAPR 60-1 d.

"CAPR 60-1 d. Flights may be released on a CAPF 99, CAP Flight Release Log, CAPF 104, Mission Flight Plan/Briefing Form, or CAPF 84, Counterdrug Mission Flight Plan/Briefing Form, (as appropriate). For Supervised Missions the IC or CMD is also considered a FRO and may release any flight related to that mission."

So.. That means that the ICL as written RESTRICTS the CAP FORM 99 as the OFFICIAL document after 10/1 and the "electronic flight release procedure" will be the standard UNTIL modified as soon as practical.

Yes / No?  These are SERIOUS INSURANCE implications that I have been asking about here for a while and I can tell you that my former Wing Commander being in CAP for 20 years and the Region Operations Officer here in GLR see it based on current published regs that WMIRS will be the entry that would have to be validated for a proper release in the case of an accident/incident as this is written.

[Eclipse]

FRO ICL From John Salvador today:
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2009_09_18_Eflight_release_61BCA7E9D8976.pdf

- Can't be done more than 24 hours in advance

- Requires a phone call and the IM SAFE checklist.

- Still allows for the use of paper Form 99's when internet is not available.

One key sentence which I hope will be added to all memorandums and ICL's in the future:

"5. This policy letter remains in effect until CAPR 60-1 is modified to incorporate the eFlight release process."

Argue all you want about the regs and expiration, but that single sentence negates any arguments about the shelf life and intent of this, (and hopefully future) ICLs.

It is standard military practice and needs to become ours as well.

[Thom]

FRO ICL From John Salvador today:
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2009_09_18_Eflight_release_61BCA7E9D8976.pdf

- Can't be done more than 24 hours in advance

- Requires a phone call and the IM SAFE checklist.

- Still allows for the use of paper Form 99's when internet is not available.

One key sentence which I hope will be added to all memorandums and ICL's in the future:

"5. This policy letter remains in effect until CAPR 60-1 is modified to incorporate the eFlight release process."

Argue all you want about the regs and expiration, but that single sentence negates any arguments about the shelf life and intent of this, (and hopefully future) ICLs.

It is standard military practice and needs to become ours as well.

Two Things:

1.  This final(ish) ICL seems to address the concerns I had about the process.  Yes, it will be more cumbersome than the old method in some ways, but more streamlined in others.  As long as we have the Paper Option for those circumstances where online access isn't available, I can live with it.  Hopefully we will get the kinks worked out and it will be a great success.

2.  DITTO!  Instead of arguing semantics over the expiration dates of ICLs, it is so easy to put that one little sentence in there, that tells you what this is, when it will expire, and where to find the new 'official' superceding regulation.  So simple it is stupid not to include it on any 'permanent' ICL.

Thom Hamilton

[sparks]

Fine, The leectronic geeks love it but I don't. I'm on computers as much as the average person but I'm not in favor of this new initiative (as if it mattered). Now all we need are the 24/7 FRO's, with generators, to be ready to issue electronic flight releases. No, I won't be getting a smart phone either.

[Mustang]

Argue all you want about the regs and expiration, but that single sentence negates any arguments about the shelf life and intent of this, (and hopefully future) ICLs.

It is standard military practice and needs to become ours as well.

Simply because it's military practice doesn't mean it's a good one.  It's a bad habit that we shouldn't emulate.  It's downright shameful that one must download not only a regulation but the half-dozen ICLs that modify it in order to get the complete picture. 

Seriously, isn't keeping the regs current what we're paying the NHQ staff for?  ICLs are nothing more than a lazy copout.

[jimmydeanno]

Seriously, isn't keeping the regs current what we're paying the NHQ staff for?

Except the NB gets it's hands in it and votes on the changed regs.  So step 1 is approving the policy change.  The second is approving the rewritten regulation.  Then, because our 80 some-odd voting members of the NB want to have their personal thoughts heard, the process takes forever...

[Gunner C]

FRO ICL From John Salvador today:
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2009_09_18_Eflight_release_61BCA7E9D8976.pdf

  - Still allows for the use of paper Form 99's when internet is not available.

If we want to do that, then it'd better be thrown into exercises - then practice transitioning to electronic/internet.  That right there is going to throw HUGE wrenches into units.