CAP leaders working TSA waiver

[Spike]

TSA has swung too far towards security, and is attempting to limit our freedoms unnecessarily.

I don't agree with some things TSA is doing (like screening pilots and making them purchase credentials), but they are now part of the culture.  If I must take my shoes off and dump my nail clippers so be it.  What I really hate is the fact that some airlines are now charging a checked bag fee for the first bag.  I know I have to check a bag if I want to take my nail clippers and shaving cream, but don't make me pay for it because you can make a few extra dollars.  That is criminal.

I doubt TSA will grant CAP it's waiver.  The Government is a business (even if they don't come out and say it) and this is a way to make some Cash and employ some more minimum wage clerks.     

[Al Sayre]

To quote Benjamin Franklin:  "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[Spike]

To quote Benjamin Franklin:  "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

True quotation, but it is helpful to remember his context, and time period. 

[Al Sayre]

You mean the time where the British government was imposing arbitrary rules on the population in the name of security for the government?

[davidsinn]

To quote Benjamin Franklin:  "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

True quotation, but it is helpful to remember his context, and time period.

You mean the time where the British government was imposing arbitrary rules on the population in the name of security for the government?

The context and time period are irrelevant. That quote still holds as true today as then. Part of being an American is always defending our freedom and not being complacent. Even today a civilian in Britain is a subject. An American is a citizen....for now....

[desertengineer1]

I can only begin to wonder about the effects.  "For every airport" pretty much removes our ability to conduct SAR missions from an arbitrary mission base, or to do SAREX's at all. 

If this is pushed as it is written, we're done.

[ol'fido]

Ya'all can some out to our local airport if you need to fly. Most days the manager comes out early to unlock the building and then goes home unless he has work to do around the place like mowing. If you need fuel, there is a sign with his phone number on it.

[desertengineer1]

The members who really want to fly will probably get the ID's.  I would.  However, to have to register for every possible GA airport we may use means the death of CAP.  It's a no solution equation.

[davidsinn]

The members who really want to fly will probably get the ID's.  I would.  However, to have to register for every possible GA airport we may use means the death of CAP.  It's a no solution equation.

What about those units like mine that meet at the FBO and drill on the ramp?

[desertengineer1]

What about those units like mine that meet at the FBO and drill on the ramp?

I guess you'll be in the parking lot.  If your meeting place is part of a hangar (as with several of our units here), the rules elude you're out of luck. 

Yeah, this one stinks no matter the angle.

[sardak]

From a letter from AOPA, which also has issues with this TSA directive:
To avoid spreading incorrect information among our pilot communities, here are the facts we can share about this SD, which have been verified to the best of our ability:
· Because this Security Directive (SD) has been classified "Security Sensitive" it cannot be freely distributed. If you come across the document online, AOPA is advising members that they should not open, download or distribute it because it could lead to a criminal investigation.
· The TSA does not consider Airport Support Network (ASN) volunteers "need to know" individuals per 49 CFR 1542.303(f)(1-2).
· The SD requirements only apply to airports with commercial airline service.
· Pilots will not need a badge issued by every airport they visit. [This conflicts with earlier information from TSA.]
· Escort procedures for transient pilots are in place, and have been for quite some time. This SD should not change those existing escort procedures according to the airport's security plan.

Stories AOPA has published on this issue:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/region/2009/090416montana.html?WT.mc_id=090417epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090317tsaliaison.html
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090312tsaliaison.html
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090224badges.html
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090212tsa.html
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/081218security.html

Mike

[davidsinn]

What about those units like mine that meet at the FBO and drill on the ramp?

I guess you'll be in the parking lot.  If your meeting place is part of a hangar (as with several of our units here), the rules elude you're out of luck. 

Yeah, this one stinks no matter the angle.

The FBO here is one building with 3 hangars. Our office has a window into #1 Hangar. The local girl scout council meets in another part of the building. AFAIK we don't have any commercial here at C65.

[AlphaSigOU]

So, as long as you don't meet in an airport that has commercial service, you should be good to go according to Thousands Standing Around.

One of the airplanes in our group is based at Dallas Love Field; all those who regularly fly that aircraft have to have an airport ID badge that allows access to the SIDA (Security Identification Display Area). Essentially, the TSA is making the whole air ops area inside the airport perimeter a SIDA, if you have commercial service or airplanes that are over 12500 lbs (at KADS, that's quite common).

[Gunner C]

CAP and WWII are over.  This history is and was wonderful....

A different time indeed, but one does have to wonder whether or not we even need TSA.  Why are we putting our personal protection into the hands of someone else?  Wouldn't a better solution be to let everyone walk onto the plane armed?  Someone steps out of line and the rest of the passengers deal with the situation. 

Ya, I'll be ok with screening for bombs, but are my flip-flops such a threat that they must be x-rayed while I'm in another room being strip searched because I have a pair of fingernail clippers in my pocket and have been deemed "an enemy of the state" because I happen to have my CAP uniform in my luggage?

Yeah, because everyone who has a gun is trained to fight on an airline, and equiped with low velocity ammunition.

Get real.

I'm sure you haven't been strip searched - especially because you have a CAP uniform.  I'm sorry, that's just dumb and inflamatory.  As far as the guns, well, they don't have low velocity ammo. But there are other folks in the air besides FAMS with weapons.  Trust me on that.

Every search protocol is driven by intelligence received from the Intel Community of which I'm a member.  Kip Hawley changed everything - when Adm. Stone was the administrator, everything was considered a threat, so everything was searched.  Now, it is VERY targeted.  You may not see it, but it's there.  When Hawley was the TSA administrator he maintained qualification as a TSO - he knew exactly what was going on at the check points.  Things were changed, personnel were upgraded, and frankly, the security you go through now is completely different from what you experienced 4 years ago. 

If you want the security to go away in both commercial and GA, then tell your congress critter.  But I'm telling you that you don't know what the threats are out there.  They are numerous and dangerous. The enemy has not slacked up one bit - they are constantly probing the security layers.  Many of the security protocols have been dropped - the threat just isn't there and the threat has changed greatly in the past 4-5 years.  But as soon as TSA goes back to pre-9/11, there will be great risk.

[jimmydeanno]

...and inflamatory. 

It was meant to be, I can't stand TSA.  My last flight about a month an a half ago included...

A 30 minute line to go through the detectors/security checkpoint.
Removal of my shoes, belt, zip up sweatshirt and hat.
The TSA guy giving me attitude for not having my deodorant in a 1Qt clear plastic baggie.
A "random" test on my bag to check for some sort of explosive residue.
Before boarding I was called for a "random" recheck.
Getting off the plane I was called for a "random" recheck.
Picking up my luggage there was one of those "TSA has opened your bag" thingys, with my stuff crammed back into it.

TSA takes 4-5 hours of my time away every time I fly, between the extra time for arrival, searches, standing in line, ditching my water, etc.  They make me downright angry and I could care less if the entire organization disappear.  I have NEVER had a pleasant experience with TSA.

[davidsinn]

So, as long as you don't meet in an airport that has commercial service, you should be good to go according to Thousands Standing Around.

One of the airplanes in our group is based at Dallas Love Field; all those who regularly fly that aircraft have to have an airport ID badge that allows access to the SIDA (Security Identification Display Area). Essentially, the TSA is making the whole air ops area inside the airport perimeter a SIDA, if you have commercial service or airplanes that are over 12500 lbs (at KADS, that's quite common).

So Midway Composite Squadron in Chicago is completely screwed then. Maybe Eclipse can shed some light on how it works for them?

[AlphaSigOU]

So Midway Composite Squadron in Chicago is completely screwed then. Maybe Eclipse can shed some light on how it works for them?

On my end, KADS doesn't require SIDA badges - yet, considering we have one of the sixteen GA-8s with ARCHER; Because of the equipment, the aircraft must be hangared. And we hangar it with one of the big-dog FBOs on the field that regularly flies and services big bizjet iron.

I have a feeling that if you're going to be CAP aircrew and your airplane is based at an airport with commercial service or regular flights by large aircraft, you're going to hafta get a SIDA badge. And it's coming outta your pocket.

[Spike]

It was meant to be, I can't stand TSA.  My last flight about a month an a half ago included...

A 30 minute line to go through the detectors/security checkpoint.
Removal of my shoes, belt, zip up sweatshirt and hat.
The TSA guy giving me attitude for not having my deodorant in a 1Qt clear plastic baggie.
A "random" test on my bag to check for some sort of explosive residue.
Before boarding I was called for a "random" recheck.
Getting off the plane I was called for a "random" recheck.
Picking up my luggage there was one of those "TSA has opened your bag" things, with my stuff crammed back into it.

TSA takes 4-5 hours of my time away every time I fly, between the extra time for arrival, searches, standing in line, ditching my water, etc.  They make me downright angry and I could care less if the entire organization disappear.  I have NEVER had a pleasant experience with TSA.

Jimmy....you have had very bad experiences with Airport Security (TSA).  I feel for you.  However, you know the rules before standing in line.  Don't take the water bottle through, have your belt in your carry on bag and put it on once through the detectors, wear shoes you can slip on and off.  Curious too......why do you choose to wear a hat inside a building?  (I could care less if you do or don't its your life, but it doesn't present you well)

Also, for everyone's FYI, you can buy TSA luggage locks at most Walmarts or wherever you buy your luggage.  It prevents TSA from breaking your luggage lock, instead they have a key to the TSA lock.   

Airport Security is ridiculous, I agree.  Creating a Federal Agency to monitor Airport passangers was also ridiculous.  If you don't like the inconvenience, I say take AMTRAK where they don't even do a "pat-down" or a bag screen.  If we all decided to ride on trains again, I bet you would see TSA and Airlines lighten up somewhat. 

[jimmydeanno]

Jimmy....you have had very bad experiences with Airport Security (TSA).  I feel for you.  However, you know the rules before standing in line.  Don't take the water bottle through, have your belt in your carry on bag and put it on once through the detectors, wear shoes you can slip on and off.

Our lovely NE weather isn't very nice to people who wear flip flops when it's 10 degrees out.  The long lines, the water is just something to do - I just finish it and throw it away at the detector.  As for the belt, well, it's there to hold my pants up   But it really is just a matter of principle, is it necessary to treat people like a criminal at all times?  When do they start with the delousing powder?

Curious too......why do you choose to wear a hat inside a building?  (I could care less if you do or don't its your life, but it doesn't present you well)

Not a baseball hat, thin winter hat in winter weather as the security points are close to the entrances and it remains cold until you get through security.

[wuzafuzz]

BOHICA:  Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

When I worked in airport operations and security, our commercial operations took place within restricted areas.  A badge and brief background check were required for people with unescorted access to those areas.  The rest of the airport was wide open.  Honestly I'm not sure why the entire airfield needs to be turned into a restricted area.

The main purpose of the restricted area was to keep the scary folks from boarding or tampering with the commercial aircraft.  Car bombs were the other concern.  Isn't that still the goal today?  This strikes me as an unnecessary bureaucratic obstacle and fund raiser.  Calls and letters to Congress-critters seem like a good idea.  The ones that aren't the namesake for the current flu virus might react positively.