Combat Control Orientation Course (CCOC)

[DBlair]

As I just factored from my location in Florida, the airfare would be a roundtrip cost of $352 per person (parents would most likely go along with their Cadet and so that cost is doubled) and from further distances it could be much more, then factor a car rental to get to the location from the airport and perhaps a hotel to stay a night or the weekend. Adding up the costs, this could get very expensive and with parents often getting frustrated with the unending costs of CAP, this could result in most people opting to go to other activities as all the above cost would just be to *apply* for the activity and not even for the actual activity itself.

Why would mom/dad fly along?  I can't tell you how many people I've picked up at airports who arrived "sans parental units."    Heck, I had two cadets show up for AUSA a couple years ago, one took the train to DC from NJ, hopped the Yellow line from Union Station and appeared at my elbow in the middle of the DC convention center.  The other did exactly the same thing, but he flew into DCA and caught the Metro up to the convention center.  Neither had mom or dad along.

While if this was the RM, then it would be easy as these costs would be covered by the military and so it wouldn't be a hassle, and perhaps this is the mindset of those from the military side of things, but to ask Cadets to spend several hundred or perhaps a thousand dollars just to apply for an event, kind of kills the idea for most.

I don't know: you supply a (pardon the term) "kick ass" activity, they'll come.  Maybe not a lot, but they'll come. And if its Sierra Hotel enough, they'll come in droves.

Point well taken, Col.

I was just thinking that the parents might need to accompany them to the 'tryout' as it may not have the usual pickup and support provided as it would only be a tryout at that point.

I agree that if it is a great activity (which I'm quite sure CCOC will be), there will be quite a bit of interest- there may not be huge numbers at first due to cost, but eventually, I can see this gaining a lot of popularity. For the most part, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate and thinking of what the parents might say. I know that in my unit alone, I have a few Cadets who would probably jump through hoops just to participate at such an activity, so perhaps my concerns are not warranted.

To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.

Who says you can't jump?

Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?

IIRC, it's in CAPR 52-16 (Cadet Programs reg). Cadets cannot jump at CAP activites (or as a CAP acitivty), but Senior Members do not such a restriction...

Interesting... very interesting...

[RogueLeader]

Some of the events will include PLF's, mock door exits, JM Signals, EP's, Dirt Dives, Body Positions, Parachute VR Simulator Training at Airborne Test Board, Vertical Wind Tunnel, Trip to Drop Zone(s) to view Airborne Ops (weather permitting) Water Survival Training in CCS Pool (weather backup), and even more.

This will be a very packed week.

[NIN]

Some of the events will include PLF's, mock door exits, JM Signals, EP's, Dirt Dives, Body Positions, Parachute VR Simulator Training at Airborne Test Board, Vertical Wind Tunnel, Trip to Drop Zone(s) to view Airborne Ops (weather permitting) Water Survival Training in CCS Pool (weather backup), and even more.

This will be a very packed week.

You get the cadets on the 34 foot towers and I'll be impressed.

(we marched past the Advanced Airborne School's facility to/from chow every day, and between that and the pack sheds over there...mmmmmm)

[RogueLeader]

I'll make sure I get pics from the ground.  No way am I getting up on that tower.

[NIN]

I'll make sure I get pics from the ground.  No way am I getting up on that tower.

You know, I read a thing where they picked 34 feet as the height of the exit trainer specifically because it was the height where people would balk.  Apparently at 33 feet, your brain says "I might survive this.." but at 34 feet, you have to force yourself?

I'm afraid of heights (which is why I jump out of planes, rappel, etc, of course!)

[Senior]

This sounds like a cool deal.  "Sierra Hotel"  :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course?   
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches

[Flying Pig]

This is neat stuff.  I like it.  I wish it wasn't in NC......  I wish I was still a cadet!  Maybe I can get an age waiver?  Oh well.  

[Flying Pig]

This sounds like a cool deal.  "Sierra Hotel"  :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course?   
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches

How about just an NCSA ribbon.....be a man of mystery and let them wonder about it.  I think we should follow the USMC way.  Like a Marine with Gold Jump Wings and a SCUBA badge.  It could mean you are a Parachute Rigger who scored a SCUBA slot as an incentive to reenlist, or it could mean you are the Scout Sniper Section Leader for 1st Force Recon. No special Patches, no berets...... just the size of your biceps and the badness of your strut.

[RogueLeader]

This is neat stuff.  I like it.  I wish it wasn't in NC......  I wish I was still a cadet!  Maybe I can get an age waiver?  Oh well.  

You can try for a TAC Officer slot.  There are only two this year though.  As you are a 1st LT, you are eligible.  The only age restriction is being over 15.

[RogueLeader]

This sounds like a cool deal.  "Sierra Hotel"  :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course?   
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches

No, but if you pass the PAST test, should you choose to go AF, you will be guaranteed to have a slot in the AF Special Tactics Pipeline.

For the cadet that scores the highest on the PAST test, I will buy them a Maroon beret.  They can't wear it in uniform, but its a nice keepsake.

[NIN]

BTW, I want to officially state that I'm jealous: You guys are gonna get into the Paraclete XP tunnel there at Raeford.  That sucker is 16' 4" in diameter and cylindrical.  The tunnel up here is only 12' and its a hexagon cross section.

I have contemplated a trip to Raeford for next winter (for the tunnel and the Airborne/Special Operations Museum in Fayettenam, too)

[DBlair]

This sounds like a cool deal.  "Sierra Hotel"  :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course?   
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches

No, but if you pass the PAST test, should you choose to go AF, you will be guaranteed to have a slot in the AF Special Tactics Pipeline.

For the cadet that scores the highest on the PAST test, I will buy them a Maroon beret.  They can't wear it in uniform, but its a nice keepsake.

Knowing that they could potentially be guaranteed a slot like that as a result of CCOC will be a huge motivating factor for the Cadets, I'm sure.

[Senior]

FP.  I agree, let it be a mystery.  I was poking fun at the "beret' program that is active in CAP. I went to PJOC and APJOC when all that you got was
the maroon hat and t-shirt to wear ONLY when you were at the activity.
Also no shoulder patches, that you can't wear because of the US flag.  I wouldn't want to wear the patches anyway you look silly with colored patches on BDU's.  Don't get me started about the ABSURD dog ES patch.

This is a great experience and opportunity for those who attend.
FP.  Also the quiet professionalism to get the job done and then go home.
       No ribbons, no bling just a nice certificate to put in your file.

[RogueLeader]

BTW, I want to officially state that I'm jealous: You guys are gonna get into the Paraclete XP tunnel there at Raeford.  That sucker is 16' 4" in diameter and cylindrical.  The tunnel up here is only 12' and its a hexagon cross section.

I have contemplated a trip to Raeford for next winter (for the tunnel and the Airborne/Special Operations Museum in Fayettenam, too)

Darn it NIN, you own me a new keyboard. . . . . .

The VWT on Raeford is the backup, if we can't get the one on Bragg.  We're getting the waivers up front as a precaution.

They are also getting M4 training

[SaBeR33]

No, but if you pass the PAST test, should you choose to go AF, you will be guaranteed to have a slot in the AF Special Tactics Pipeline.

Is there an expiration for the qualification since the cadets participating can be as young as 15, meaning they're not even eligible to enlist yet?

For the cadet that scores the highest on the PAST test, I will buy them a Maroon beret.  They can't wear it in uniform, but its a nice keepsake.

PJs wear maroon, CCTs wear scarlet (unless that has changed over the years), which I imagine the Pope AFB exchange should have them in stock. Will you have it presented by the Combat Control School's commandant? If so, that would be even cooler. 

[RogueLeader]

Is there an expiration for the qualification since the cadets participating can be as young as 15, meaning they're not even eligible to enlist yet?

I do not know, but I will find out.

PJs wear maroon, CCTs wear scarlet (unless that has changed over the years), which I imagine the Pope AFB exchange should have them in stock. Will you have it presented by the Combat Control School's commandant? If so, that would be even cooler. 

I've been to the exchange, but I've never seen them.  Then again, I never looked.  I will inquire about them.  The beret was something that I thoght of on the fly.  It will stand, although I will see about getting it presented.

[SaBeR33]

You get the cadets on the 34 foot towers and I'll be impressed.

There's no reason they shouldn't be able to. The 1996 SCWG encampment that was held at Fort Bragg had cadets and SMs jumping from it. It was rather funny watching 80lb cadets jump from that thing and seeing them bounce up and down like they were bungie jumping. I guess they were a tad too light to keep from bouncing.

Lt Col Robert Spencer (a retired CSGM from the 82nd ABN at Fort Bragg who's a former "Black Hat" and Special Forces qualified), from NCWG, could undoubtedly help with getting access to the tower if he isn't already involved in this project.

[Flying Pig]

Id probably hold off on buying them scarlet berets.  I dunno......I know it wont have the CCT crest on it, but seems a little much?  But then again, Im not a Combat Controller, so if they are cool with it.  But it seems odd to be presented with a beret they cant wear.  Of course, for those who go on to become Combat Controllers, that would be neat to late wear the beret you were awarded as a CAP cadet.

[RogueLeader]

^ Like I said, only the Cadet that has the Highest score on the PAST test will recieve the beret (if AF Cadre approve, of course).  As much as I want to, if the AF do not want it done, I won't jepordize the activity.

[PA Guy]

^ Giving a cadet a beret like that and telling them to just hang it on the wall as a memento is like giving an alcoholic an unopened fifth and telling them to just admire it.  BTDT

How about a nice plaque with the Combat Control crest?