CAP has a Presidential Unit Citation?

[NAYBOR]

I guess the question I have is:  Is anyone in CAP (as in "AF Aux", not "CAP-USAF") allowed to wear any of these decorations/medals/ribbons?

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I'd think that at least anyone who was a member when the medals were authorized can wear them.

As for the rest of us? Guess we'll find out. Or not....

[Hawk200]

On the other hand, it seems like these days the folks at NHQ seem to think its better to create a CAP equivalent to the USAF awards. It would be better IMHO if they abandoned that tack and went about attempting to obtain USAF awards for CAP members. 

Not sure whether to agree or not. On one side, it would be a powerful recognition of CAP members. On the other hand, how would it look when worn by current and former military members? Someone seeing the member in CAP uniforms might get the impression that the inidividual was wearing something they weren't authorized.

Another thing that would have to be addressed would be the corporate uniforms. Military awards and decs aren't authorized on the CSU or Aviator combinations, which means that those members opting to wear that uniform wouldn't be permitted to wear a legitimately earned award. If it was permitted, then it would be fine. I don't have a problem with it, but I don't think the Air Force would approve. And yes, they would have to allow wear of their dec on an other that Air Force variant uniform, even if they don't control the actual uniform itself.

[RiverAux]

Streamer was for service during WWII and the PUC was for the combined missions we performed. They were also awarded the American Defense Service medal but were never authorized to wear it.

I just don't believe the PUC was earned by CAP and I won't until I see the actual paperwork with my own eyes or see it referenced in an official AF history.  While what our folks did was quite brave, it wasn't the equivalent of what the 101st Airborne did at Bastogne (pick your own example of other actions for which the PUC was awarded). 

[Gunner C]

I posted this in the wrong current thread:

I direct your attention to this thread:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4549.0

According to CAP-USAF/CC, there is a campaign streamer that's been awarded to Hqs CAP-USAF.  Strange - they're flying a unit award that THEY didn't earn.  The guys in the little yellow airplanes did.  I think that this award belongs to the wings that actually flew the missions, not the guys who were in the rear with the gear.

Gunner

[Timbo]

And yes, they would have to allow wear of their dec on an other that Air Force variant uniform, even if they don't control the actual uniform itself.

Not true, law allows veterans to wear medals, ribbons, etc on civilian clothing (usually in a comparable place to that of AD folks).  The AF has no control over that.  That is why I don't understand why CAP won't allow military ribbons on the CSU. 

[Gunner C]

And yes, they would have to allow wear of their dec on an other that Air Force variant uniform, even if they don't control the actual uniform itself.

Not true, law allows veterans to wear medals, ribbons, etc on civilian clothing (usually in a comparable place to that of AD folks).  The AF has no control over that.  That is why I don't understand why CAP won't allow military ribbons on the CSU. 

If I had to guess, I'd say it's CAP that's doing that.  Not to say that it's a good or bad idea . . .

Gunner

[Hawk200]

And yes, they would have to allow wear of their dec on an other that Air Force variant uniform, even if they don't control the actual uniform itself.

Not true, law allows veterans to wear medals, ribbons, etc on civilian clothing (usually in a comparable place to that of AD folks).  The AF has no control over that.  That is why I don't understand why CAP won't allow military ribbons on the CSU. 

Partly correct. Law allows medals with civilian clothes, and in a specified manner. Some unit citations are permitted as lapel pins, but ribbons are not addressed.  Ribbons go on military uniforms. At present, there is no allowance for ribbons. Ribbons and medals are not the same thing. There are ribbon equivalents to medals, but that is not a blanket authorization to wear all ribbons.

[Timbo]

And yes, they would have to allow wear of their dec on an other that Air Force variant uniform, even if they don't control the actual uniform itself.

Not true, law allows veterans to wear medals, ribbons, etc on civilian clothing (usually in a comparable place to that of AD folks).  The AF has no control over that.  That is why I don't understand why CAP won't allow military ribbons on the CSU. 

Partly correct. Law allows medals with civilian clothes, and in a specified manner. Some unit citations are permitted as lapel pins, but ribbons are not addressed.  Ribbons go on military uniforms. At present, there is no allowance for ribbons. Ribbons and medals are not the same thing. There are ribbon equivalents to medals, but that is not a blanket authorization to wear all ribbons.

Understood. 

[James Shaw]

Got some further information. Streamer was awarded for service during WWII specifically the Coastal Patrol, Only those who actually participated in Coastal patrol are eligible to wear.

Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to USAF leadership of CAP. CAP personnel were never authorized to wear it.

[Timbo]

Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to USAF leadership of CAP. CAP personnel were never authorized to wear it.

So......the AF leaders running the day-to-day paper pushing got the award at the expense of some very hard volunteer members.  That makes sense!

[RiverAux]

Well, if the PUC was awarded to CAP-USAF then it needs to be taken out of that CAP lineage document ASAP.  And as a logical extension of my earlier statement that nothing CAP did was worthy of a PUC, then certainly nothing CAP-USAF did was either.  Heck, they didn't even have a presence at the coastal patrol bases. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

As I have come to understand it:

CAP, as an auxiliary of the US Army Air Corps, was authorized the American Defense Campaign Medal, and the streamer that accompanied the award.  This was specifically for the anti-submarine operations, which were combat operations.

All other CAP activity in WWII and since was or is combat support activity.

CAP carried the streamer until the point that CAP was no longer commanded by an Air Force general officer.  Then the lineage was shifted to CAP-USAF, since that was the only part of CAP that remained directly under USAF command.

But...

When I was at National, NEITHER colors bore the battle streamer, so I don't know.

[Gunner C]

Got some further information. Streamer was awarded for service during WWII specifically the Coastal Patrol, Only those who actually participated in Coastal patrol are eligible to wear.

Streamers aren't worn.  They are a permanent part of a unit's lineage.  There are units that are no longer federal units that are authorized to fly battle streamers from the Revolution. 

Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to USAF leadership of CAP. CAP personnel were never authorized to wear it.

The PUC is awarded for valor only, not for pushing paper and making sure that the gas gets pumped:

for extraordinary heroism in action against an armed enemy on or after 7 December 1941 (the date of the Attack on Pearl Harbor and the start of American involvement in World War II). The unit must display such gallantry, determination, and esprit de corps in accomplishing its mission under extremely difficult and hazardous conditions so as to set it apart from and above other units participating in the same campaign. The degree of heroism required is the same as that which would warrant award of the Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross or Navy Cross to an individual.

Pure baloney on the AF's part.  Show me where any of the WWII CAP headquarters types did this.  If what caphistorian said above is accurate, then it needs to be rescinded.

Gunner

[Eclipse]

Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to USAF leadership of CAP. CAP personnel were never authorized to wear it.

So......the AF leaders running the day-to-day paper pushing got the award at the expense of some very hard volunteer members.  That makes sense!

How is that at the "expense" of the members?  CAP-USAF received an award regular CAP units aren't even eligible for.

Good on ye' to them, how is that a negative for the membership?

[Gunner C]

Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to USAF leadership of CAP. CAP personnel were never authorized to wear it.

So......the AF leaders running the day-to-day paper pushing got the award at the expense of some very hard volunteer members.  That makes sense!

How is that at the "expense" of the members?  CAP-USAF received an award regular CAP units aren't even eligible for.

Good on ye' to them, how is that a negative for the membership?

Did they actually do anything that warrants recognition on the level of a Distinguished Service Cross?  See above.

[Eclipse]

Did they actually do anything that warrants recognition on the level of a Distinguished Service Cross?  See above.

I'm not talking about a WWII DSC, I'm referring to a PUC supposedly awarded to CAP-USAF.

[Gunner C]

Did they actually do anything that warrants recognition on the level of a Distinguished Service Cross?  See above.

I'm not talking about a WWII DSC, I'm referring to a PUC supposedly awarded to CAP-USAF.

That's what a PUC is - a unit level DSC.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Gunner is right.  The PUC is for combat only.  And it is not awarded lightly.

There are lesser unit awards that can be awarded, and the CAP-USAF color has three "Organizational Excellence" award streamers.

Neither the CAP color nor the CAP-USAF color bears any combat streamers.

And, I know streamers are not worn by individuals, but the colors of the ribbon that is worn by individual persons, and the suspension ribbon of the campaign medal, match the color scheme of the battle streamer.

[SAR-EMT1]

The PUC is not strictly awarded for combat. For example, the
Coast Guard - AD, Res, Aux, Civilian was awarded one for its operations in the aftermath of Katrina (a wholly humanitarian mission)
The citation I saw read in part
" these actions spanning the whole of the United States Coast Guard, reflected great credit upon these individuals and upon the American people"

No mention of combat involved or implied. Only that the actions were of of such a scale to encompass everyone in the service.