What coat do you where with the blues when its cold out not a service coat.

[afgeo4]

I find it odd that no one's mentioned that the service or service dress uniform is not an appropriate uniform to be worn out in extreme cold. The proper uniform for extreme cold is BDU (which in USAF includes extreme cold and arctic parkas, pants, boots, and special thermal undegarments).

There shouldn't be one outdoor activity done outside when it's extreme cold that would require blues.

That means if your uniform of the day is blues and you're meeting indoors (as it should be), the best, smartest, and most authorized thing to do would be to wear proper civilian clothing to/from meeting and change into/out of blues when at the meeting.

USAF doesn't have any special blues outer garments outside of the ones authorized for CAP. If people were made to march/work outdoors in very cold weather in blues, they'd be allowed to wear parkas/gortex/field jackets for safety reasons. As long as everyone's wearing the same thing, and it's weather appropriate, it looks just fine and the leadership is happy that people are being taken care of properly.

Why someone would require people to be in blues for that is a whole other story.

[Pylon]

That is not necessarily the case in Texas.  It can be 80 degrees F at 1500 and 30 degrees F at 1800.  It can be raining now and dry and clear 20 minutes later.

So, it's known the temperature can drop dramatically at night or rain can crop up... Having some CAP outerwear handy isn't a bad plan of action.  Bam... that's prior planning and that's 100% uniform compliance.  Yay - every one is now happy.

It's certainly not an excuse for wearing civilian outerwear to routine meetings.  If they had the foresight to bring civilian outerwear to the activity, they could have planned for authorized outerwear.

[Major Carrales]

That is not necessarily the case in Texas.  It can be 80 degrees F at 1500 and 30 degrees F at 1800.  It can be raining now and dry and clear 20 minutes later.

So, it's known the temperature can drop dramatically at night or rain can crop up... Having some CAP outerwear handy isn't a bad plan of action.  Bam... that's prior planning and that's 100% uniform compliance.  Yay - every one is now happy.

It's certainly not an excuse for wearing civilian outerwear to routine meetings.  If they had the foresight to bring civilian outerwear to the activity, they could have planned for authorized outerwear.

At last we agree.  Routine wear of these items is definately a no no.  However, if we are suddenly hit by snow (Winter 2004) and then the temperature goes back up (to 70 degrees) I cannot in good mind allow cadets to freeze, now can I?  No more than you could freeze your ears off.

As for your response...I believe I am the only on that carries my whole wardrobe with me in the car.

[afgeo4]

back to the topic...

Cadet Williams, from my experience in NYC and Syracuse, NY, the warmest blues combination is this:

1. wool blend pant
2. wool blend shirt, long sleeve w/tie
3. authorized v-neck pull-over (also wool)
4. lightweight jacket w/ liner
5. black leather gloves (lined) with glove liner underneath
6. do wear thermal underwear under the whole thing if you're going to be outside the whole time
7. black cotton socks with gortex sock liner
8. flight cap (can't do much with that)
9. loosely fitting low quarters (tight fitting ones will cut off circulation in your feet which creates frostbite at higher temperatures)

[A.Member]

That's a N3B USAF issue parka.   In real cold weather states and it is authorized.    See 39-1, Table 2-1, #9:

Outergarments:  Worn outdoors and removed in an office environment. Use good judgment in choosing appropriate garments for wear based on weather conditions and duties.

Sorry, spin again.  USAF parkas are certinaly not approved for wear by CAP members.

Not spin again.  The reg simply says use good judgement.  It makes no other statement.  Look at Pylon's photo.  Based on the conditions in that photo, it appears he used good judgement.  

The above quote says that within what is approved, members should make good choices - it is not a Carte Blanche to wear whatever we want to, anymore than we could wear Gor-Tex before it was approved, better or not.

No, it doesn't.  The quote I posted is directly from 39-1.  The above quote does not say, "within what is approved"!   You're making an interpretation on wording that doesn't exist.  

The wording and arrangement is poor when it comes to outerwear (one of the many issues with 39-1).  As such, for those in cold weather states, I am willing to be more lenient and view that one with some common sense.  Fact of the matter is that neither our regs nor our supply allow for an appropriate outergarment for true cold weather states.  Until that happens, common sense will prevail.

[Eclipse]

edit - I have no idea why I involve myself in these pointless discussions.

[Hawk200]

While in Alaska, our unit regularly wore readily available USAF issued outerclothing, and wore it in the same manner as the airmen on the base wore it. This included N3B's parkas, the associated pants, military issue mukluks, leather mittens, and the insulated headgear (such as Pylon is demonstrated wearing earlier). Most of the items I wore had been issued by the Air Force, and I simply wore them with CAP uniforms in the same manner.

I tend to be picky on 39-1 when it's applicable, but in all fairness, it doesn't cover the location of every unit we have. The items I've mentioned above were Air Force issue, and I used them in the same manner that I would have if the uniform said "U.S. Air Force" on the branch tape.

Overall, if the manual does not cover the type of outergarments needed, then the commander should supplement it. In order to keep our unit legal, I created a supplement specifying what Air Force equivalent items would be authorized. The commander sent it to the wing CC for perusal. The wing CC forwarded copies to all the units in the wing. The wing CC also obtained from the Air Force many of these items, and had them sent to units that might not otherwise obtain them.  Don't know if it's still done, but it was while I was there.

I'd even proposed a uniform based on the old wool fatigue pattern uniform. It was worn by the members of the Arctic Survival School, so there was local precedent. We abandoned it due to the fact that it was hard to obtain, and when someone could, it might not be available in appropriate sizes.

All in all, many of the items that we wore on the Air Force side were not it the regs. It was local issue military outerwear, appropriate to the climate. CAP HQ should permit, and encourage the same practice. Probably best to stick with military issue items, allowing civilian equivalents could create a free for all with little uniformity. Mirror the policies of the nearest Air Force installation would serve everyone well. Not to mention, many of the AF used items would probably be readily available locally.

[CAPLAW]

If a cadet has a bdu jacket , why not wear it with blues. It is better than wearing a NASCAR jacket or jean jacket.

[notaNCO forever]

If a cadet has a bdu jacket , why not wear it with blues. It is better than wearing a NASCAR jacket or jean jacket.

I wouldn't  say a BDU jacket looks better than a denim jacket with blues.

[afgeo4]

If a cadet has a bdu jacket , why not wear it with blues. It is better than wearing a NASCAR jacket or jean jacket.

I wouldn't  say a BDU jacket looks better than a denim jacket with blues.

But it does if everyone is wearing the same BDU jacket with the same blues. Remember why uniforms exist in the first place.

[exFlight Officer]

I like the Lightweight blue jacket, its cut is pleasing to me.  I also have an all weather coat but have yet to wear it.

+1  Agreed!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I purchased a black M-65 for winter wear in my civvies.

As for freezing temperatures when it comes to blues:

-Try to avoid blues
-If necessary, wear a blue/black jacket over them.

BDUs really are the better choice though, as you can layer up underneath and on the uniform itself.

[RogueLeader]

^ Thats why I bought an all-weather coat. . . .

although the rank slides don't fit nice . . .

[Hawk200]

^ Thats why I bought an all-weather coat. . . .

although the rank slides don't fit nice . . .

Split the seam on the underside, and sew some wide enough Velcro on so that it sits wide enough. You may want to re-iron the crease so it looks right.

[Eclipse]

^ Thats why I bought an all-weather coat. . . .

although the rank slides don't fit nice . . .

Split the seam on the underside, and sew some wide enough Velcro on so that it sits wide enough. You may want to re-iron the crease so it looks right.

Just buy the right slides that already have Velcro on them...

[Hawk200]

Just buy the right slides that already have Velcro on them...

He already has a set. Why buy new ones?

[SarDragon]

I guess it all depends on sewing skills and what time is worth. I have the skills, but would probably buy the additional set anyway.