U.S. ARMY CADET CORPS AT AUSA CONFERENCE

[COL Land]

A few photos of this year's work at the Association of the United States Army (AUSA) Annual Conference:














Respectfully,

[DNall]

nice receiving line

[CAPOfficer]

I see by these pictures, the U.S. Army Cadet Corps allows the wearing of Civil Air Patrol ribbons on their uniform; I wonder how many other like organizations allow it as well.

[davidsinn]

I see by these pictures, the U.S. Army Cadet Corps allows the wearing of Civil Air Patrol ribbons on their uniform; I wonder how many other like organizations allow it as well.

Wings too. See Col. Ferguson above.

[cnitas]

I am not sure I like the idea of CAP insignia on an Army uniform.  It just seems wrong somehow.

[citizensoldier]

I am not sure I like the idea of CAP insignia on an Army uniform.  It just seems wrong somehow.

No worse than Air Force ribbons or any other on an Army uniform.

CS

[NIN]

I left my CAP ribbons off my rack. I figure a Captain with 12 ribbons looks a little too much like a PX commando as it stands, and none of mine are "combat service" type ribbons or medals.

Off the top of my head, you can wear either 2 or 3, or 3 or 4, CAP ribbons on your ACA uniform.  Kinda like CAP allows JROTC ribbons.

But man, ain't them jump wings on my uniform shiny? 

[NIN]

Also, its a good idea not to out-bling the boss..

Here's one that COL Land doesn't have.

[cnitas]

I am not sure I like the idea of CAP insignia on an Army uniform.  It just seems wrong somehow.

No worse than Air Force ribbons or any other on an Army uniform.

CS

I meant the CAP wings.  The ribbons blend in just fine.

[Major Carrales]

Why not wear the CAP wings  if they are allowed?  More CAP self-loathing?  Really, the way some of you look down at CAP worth you might think this was an anti-CAP forum.

Just to be fair, and I mean no disrespect to Col Land (in fact, I would likly help him if he chose to organize in my area by opening our facility to any such effort)  or his organization, but compared to the US Army uniform the CAP uniform (service dress) is a "plain blue suit."

I don't think that there is anything wrong with the properly worn CAP uniform, even with it's most "blingful" incarnation.  Even an "all decked out" CAP uniform has nothing on the ARMY, JROTC and ACA uniform. 

In fact, next time I read the "South American Dictator" anology to describe some SPAATZ cadet, I think I will remind the forum of the many very real  "North American" blingage issues that exist.

[RiverAux]

So long as CAP has authorized another organization to wear our ribbons, I'm fine with it.  They just can't choose to do it on their own. 

[citizensoldier]

Why not wear the CAP wings  if they are allowed?  More CAP self-loathing?  Really, the way some of you look down at CAP worth you might think this was an anti-CAP forum.

Just to be fair, and I mean no disrespect to Col Land (in fact, I would likly help him if he chose to organize in my area by opening our facility to any such effort)  or his organization, but compared to the US Army uniform the CAP uniform (service dress) is a "plain blue suit."

I don't think that there is anything wrong with the properly worn CAP uniform, even with it's most "blingful" incarnation.  Even an "all decked out" CAP uniform has nothing on the ARMY, JROTC and ACA uniform. 

In fact, next time I read the "South American Dictator" anology to describe some SPAATZ cadet, I think I will remind the forum of the many very real  "North American" blingage issues that exist.

I would think we should be honored that they think that highly of our awards system.  We have more to gain working together over time than not.  Just my humble grunt opinion.

CS

[Major Carrales]

Why not wear the CAP wings  if they are allowed?  More CAP self-loathing?  Really, the way some of you look down at CAP worth you might think this was an anti-CAP forum.

Just to be fair, and I mean no disrespect to Col Land (in fact, I would likly help him if he chose to organize in my area by opening our facility to any such effort)  or his organization, but compared to the US Army uniform the CAP uniform (service dress) is a "plain blue suit."

I don't think that there is anything wrong with the properly worn CAP uniform, even with it's most "blingful" incarnation.  Even an "all decked out" CAP uniform has nothing on the ARMY, JROTC and ACA uniform. 

In fact, next time I read the "South American Dictator" analogy to describe some SPAATZ cadet, I think I will remind the forum of the many very real "North American" blingage issues that exist.

I would think we should be honored that they think that highly of our awards system.  We have more to gain working together over time than not.  Just my humble grunt opinion.

CS

I am pleased that they would allow CAP ribbons on their uniforms.  I look forward to any developments between organizations.

My gripe is rather with those here at CAPTALK that seem to think that CAP is "babygames" or that it is less than honorable in some way.

The last phrase of my statement was to address those that think we have too much "bling."  Personally, I think we have just enough.  When worn properly, there is nothing wrong with the CAP uniform.

Always remember that we are who we are.  It is not "that horrible" to be a CAP Officer.  Until we embrace our nature and stop making disingenuous comparisons to other organizations, (ranging from the Boy Scouts to the US Marines and from the U.S. Army to NASA) we will never advance.

Why can't many of you all just take pride in CAP traditions and the missions we do?  Why must we feel "second class?"  None should feel that way, we are what we are and we are not what we are not.

[MIKE]

I don't think the point of this thread was to discuss the finer points of the USAC uniform... It would have been in the appropriate section.

Maybe COL Land was saying "Look at all these CAP members we got to join the USAC... because we have cooler looking uniforms."  I really don't know.

[citizensoldier]

Why not wear the CAP wings  if they are allowed?  More CAP self-loathing?  Really, the way some of you look down at CAP worth you might think this was an anti-CAP forum.

Just to be fair, and I mean no disrespect to Col Land (in fact, I would likly help him if he chose to organize in my area by opening our facility to any such effort)  or his organization, but compared to the US Army uniform the CAP uniform (service dress) is a "plain blue suit."

I don't think that there is anything wrong with the properly worn CAP uniform, even with it's most "blingful" incarnation.  Even an "all decked out" CAP uniform has nothing on the ARMY, JROTC and ACA uniform. 

In fact, next time I read the "South American Dictator" analogy to describe some SPAATZ cadet, I think I will remind the forum of the many very real "North American" blingage issues that exist.

I would think we should be honored that they think that highly of our awards system.  We have more to gain working together over time than not.  Just my humble grunt opinion.

CS

I am pleased that they would allow CAP ribbons on their uniforms.  I look forward to any developments between organizations.

My gripe is rather with those here at CAPTALK that seem to think that CAP is "babygames" or that it is less than honorable in some way.

The last phrase of my statement was to address those that think we have too much "bling."  Personally, I think we have just enough.  When worn properly, there is nothing wrong with the CAP uniform.

Always remember that we are who we are.  It is not "that horrible" to be a CAP Officer.  Until we embrace our nature and stop making disingenuous comparisons to other organizations, (ranging from the Boy Scouts to the US Marines and from the U.S. Army to NASA) we will never advance.

Why can't many of you all just take pride in CAP traditions and the missions we do?  Why must we feel "second class?"  None should feel that way, we are what we are and we are not what we are not.

What we are is unique.  I was a Scout and a CAP Cadet as a kid.  I now have my son in as a cadet as Scouting has gone a way I am not totally happy with and the U.S. Army while I love it, is what it is.  CAP can provide to the community things that no one else can.  That is some of why I came back all these years later.  Most people will not do the volunteering in a decade that an average CAP member does in a year or two, so I do agree the self hate is sad.  It is a product of what our society has become.  The CAP just has values that run at odds with our every man for himself culture.

A favorite quote:

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.

~ Theodore Roosevelt 1858-1919

To my mind the CAP lets people learn about many of those values.

CS

[COL Land]

Maybe COL Land was saying "Look at all these CAP members we got to join the USAC... because we have cooler looking uniforms."  I really don't know.

Not hardly.   Just celebrating another extremely successful visit to our Nation's Capitol and several days of positive interface with Army leadership. 

While it is true that many of our USAC officers have previously served (or currently serve) in Air Force Blue, I take nothing away from the CAP and its various missions.   We are two distinct, yet similar, organizations.   

As for the awards policies, we allow up to 3 awards, as well as up to two devices, from other organizations, provided that they have a comparable award in USAC.   That meaning, we don't allow the NJROTC "I went to sea for an hour" ribbon (True story, I used to run a Yard Patrol boat and NJROTC Cadets would *beg* to board the vessel when we shifted berths because they could get the "sea service" ribbon for doing so....).  We do allow senior CAP awards, as well as devices (wings, etc.) which are appropriate.   We have not secured "permission" from other organizations, as it is us that is *allowing* non-USAC awards to be worn on our uniform.   With that said, a MOU is in the works between USAC and CAP, and that may very well be a line item to be included.

Respectfully,

[afgeo4]

Maybe COL Land was saying "Look at all these CAP members we got to join the USAC... because we have cooler looking uniforms."  I really don't know.

Not hardly.   Just celebrating another extremely successful visit to our Nation's Capitol and several days of positive interface with Army leadership. 

While it is true that many of our USAC officers have previously served (or currently serve) in Air Force Blue, I take nothing away from the CAP and its various missions.   We are two distinct, yet similar, organizations.   

As for the awards policies, we allow up to 3 awards, as well as up to two devices, from other organizations, provided that they have a comparable award in USAC.   That meaning, we don't allow the NJROTC "I went to sea for an hour" ribbon (True story, I used to run a Yard Patrol boat and NJROTC Cadets would *beg* to board the vessel when we shifted berths because they could get the "sea service" ribbon for doing so....).  We do allow senior CAP awards, as well as devices (wings, etc.) which are appropriate.   We have not secured "permission" from other organizations, as it is us that is *allowing* non-USAC awards to be worn on our uniform.   With that said, a MOU is in the works between USAC and CAP, and that may very well be a line item to be included.

Respectfully,

I think that'd be great. We could do AE and O-rides for the Army cadets while they can teach us land navigation and field skills.

[DNall]

 We have not secured "permission" from other organizations, as it is us that is *allowing* non-USAC awards to be worn on our uniform.   With that said, a MOU is in the works between USAC and CAP, and that may very well be a line item to be included.

I think that's appropriate on the uniform, and cooperation issues.

I think that'd be great. We could do AE and O-rides for the Army cadets while they can teach us land navigation and field skills.

That's an interesting idea. We could also share some facilities & even stuff like color guard equipment & such.

What we are is unique.  I was a Scout and a CAP Cadet as a kid.  I now have my son in as a cadet as Scouting has gone a way I am not totally happy with and the U.S. Army while I love it, is what it is.  CAP can provide to the community things that no one else can.  That is some of why I came back all these years later.  Most people will not do the volunteering in a decade that an average CAP member does in a year or two, so I do agree the self hate is sad.  It is a product of what our society has become.  The CAP just has values that run at odds with our every man for himself culture.

That's bull, you too Joe. It's not self-loathing or shame or anything like that. There's people that see what we do and are proud/satisfied with that. And then there are people that see our potential and are disappointed/frustrated with the obstacles to reach it.

Army officers & NCOs get performance evaluations, as I'm sure most of you do in your jobs. The difference is they don't really care what you have done since your last evaluation. They care if you successfully met the goals you set for yourself on the last eval (follow thru), but 99% of it is about your future potential on the next level, not the past.

Speaking for myself, pride is not an emotion, it's a sin. Other people can feel pride in what I or my organization does. That's nice, but I'm not worried about public admiration or what we've already achieved. I'm concerned with what can we achieve next and down the road.

[Major Carrales]

That's bull, you too Joe. It's not self-loathing or shame or anything like that. There's people that see what we do and are proud/satisfied with that. And then there are people that see our potential and are disappointed/frustrated with the obstacles to reach it.

Dennis, the duality of our situatution often prompts individuals to make unfair comparisons between us and others.  Certain people here, because of this, have a tendency to look at our insitutions and traditions as "less than significant." 

Every uniform item, safety measures, public relations presses, training, rank structure is somehow "inferior;" not because it is inherently flawed...but because it does't "measure up" to what happens in other organizations (like the USCGA, US Army, and even USAF.)   We are a different animal than these groups.  We have our own traditions.  Sure, we take the best of our pooled resources...of our experience...but we are the Civil Air Patrol (not the ARMY or USAF LIGHT).

Our structures are effected by the volunteer.  And, while the heart of the volunteer is a most power engine, it is also subject to strain and viscosity breakdown.

Pride is only a sin when it is of the individual.  When it become vanity and conciet.  You should be proud of the organizations you help to build, not because it is your organization, but because its the duty of all CAP Officers to perform the missions of CAP.

CAP is my organization, I do value its traditions and distinctiveness.  As much as I do the USAF or the US Military/Civilian appratus.  Some here down grade CAP Awards and achievements...I cannot see that as coinciding with my core beliefs.

Was NIN ashamed of his CAP status as a Lt Col et al?  I can't truly say.  His Capt rank in the ACA was appropiate for the occasion.  However, even based on what people have posted on "CAP grade" in recent times I can safely say that many here would place more value on ACA grade than CAP.  And why would/should that be?

[DNall]

All, sorry this doesn't relate to the thread.

Dennis, the duality of our situatution often prompts individuals to make unfair comparisons between us and others.  Certain people here, because of this, have a tendency to look at our insitutions and traditions as "less than significant." 

Every uniform item, safety measures, public relations presses, training, rank structure is somehow "inferior;" not because it is inherently flawed...but because it does't "measure up" to what happens in other organizations (like the USCGA, US Army, and even USAF.)   We are a different animal than these groups.  We have our own traditions.  Sure, we take the best of our pooled resources...of our experience...but we are the Civil Air Patrol (not the ARMY or USAF LIGHT).

Okay, but what is Civil Air Patrol? Is it the sum of our past so that we now sit on our laurels & strive for no more? Did Gill Rob Wilson do that? or Hap Arnold? or is Gen Casey pictured above doing that now? No, success is defined in never being satisfied with where you are, always making that comparison to similar organizations as a benchmark to measure progress, and overcoming challenges to become something better than what we are and have been, which by definition is different than the sum of our past traditions and experiences.

You think it's self-loathing for me to say CAP isn't good enough, that I should accept what we are & not make comparisons to what we are not. And, I say we aren't good enough, look at all these similar organizations doing aspects better than we do, and lets not accept who we are, lets push back and make CAP better in spite of our past limitations.

"Pride is only a sin when it is of the individual.  When it become vanity and conciet.  You should be proud of the organizations you help to build, not because it is your organization, but because its the duty of all CAP Officers to perform the missions of CAP."

The quote in my email signature says, "Duty then is the sublimest word in the English Language; you can never do more and should never wish to do less."

The minimum requirement of your duty is all that you are humanly capable of without condition. I don't believe in feeling pride in the accomplishments of an organization based on my having done my job. I did what I was supposed to do and the organization succeeded as it was supposed to. The only thing remarkable in that would have been if I had failed in my duty and it had failed because of it. I don't believe it's possible to achieve something greater than your duty, not by your own hand, and so I don't see room in life for pride. But I do belive strongly in the principle of "excellence in all we do." Which means NEVER accepting the status quo regardless of how good or bad it may be, and ALWAYS driving hard for constant change to make the organization better, and by definition different.

CAP is my organization, I do value its traditions and distinctiveness.  As much as I do the USAF or the US Military/Civilian appratus.  Some here down grade CAP Awards and achievements...I cannot see that as coinciding with my core beliefs.

Was NIN ashamed of his CAP status as a Lt Col et al?  I can't truly say.  His Capt rank in the ACA was appropiate for the occasion.  However, even based on what people have posted on "CAP grade" in recent times I can safely say that many here would place more value on ACA grade than CAP.  And why would/should that be?

I value being a team player with the parent service that is our complete reason for being & literally the hand that feeds us. I value grade and awards that are meaningful. I don't value their abuse, or people that strap a bunch of that stuff on to feel good about themselves or try to appear better than others. I have high aspirations for CAP, but I view it with feet firmly on the ground.

USAC grade is first of all earned through a legitimate training/development process, is meaningful in terms of position, and is commensurate with an actual skill level that is not at all common in CAP at any grade. So yes, I would consider it more valuable. That said, you well know I would like to change CAP to be able to say the same things about our grade structure, but that's obviously a bit complicated.

[stratoflyer]

USAC grade is first of all earned through a legitimate training/development process, is meaningful in terms of position, and is commensurate with an actual skill level that is not at all common in CAP at any grade. So yes, I would consider it more valuable. That said, you well know I would like to change CAP to be able to say the same things about our grade structure, but that's obviously a bit complicated.

I'm with you on that one.



I'm real happy to see the USAC up and coming and I'm excited about our potential relationship with them.