Prospective Cadets

[LtCol057]

I'm curious how many meetings some of you require a prospective cadet to come to before you give them an application packet.  Several years ago, we asked the to come to 3 meetings, 1 with their parents, before we would give them an application.  They would come and observe, mainly to see if it was for them. The vast majority of the time, if they had invested that time into checking the program out, joined.  By bringing their parents, it gave us a chance to let the parents see for themselves what the program was about, answer any questions they had, etc. 

The problem I'm having is that my Deputy Commander Cadets gives prospective new members an app packet on their first visit, never meets the parents. He's even let some go back in our supply room and get BDUs, before they join.  Then they don't join and we don't get the BDUs back. He's even let some get field gear.  His response? "They'll need the field gear when they join and get their 101 card."  I know we've lost about 10 sets of BDUs and another 5-6 sets of field gear by him doing that. Short of putting a lock on the supply room door, or relieving him of duty, any suggestions?   I'm getting ready to have a MAJOR heart to heart "discussion" with him about it.

[IceNine]

I did 3, 1 with parent.  And 3rd meeting app packet as well.

Then, they had to get their curry before I would issue ANY uniforms.  And I put a 3 month wait on ordering blues.

I would not issue anything of significant value (field gear) with anything less than 6 months ACTIVE service.

BUT, when cadets were accepted as members, promoted, or given uniforms we made a Big deal out of it so that they would take pride it them.

YMMV

[DC]

We make them come to three meetings before we give them paperwork. If they state an intent to join we start the process of ordering their BDUs ASAP, and get measurements so we can order their blues as soon as they are a member.

I don't think you should make a cadet wait until they have gotten their curry to get a uniform, but we stress that if you didn't buy it you need to bring it back... Even with an exchange policy we have an immensely hard time maintaining a stock of serviceble used BDUs, or even blues for that matter...

Giving out field gear like that is really stupid... I wouldn't go anywhere near that until they had their 101 at least, or maybe not until they expressed a serious interest in GT training... And again, lucky you for actually having a stock of field gear to give out.. How do you guys do it?

[davedove]

You definitely don't need to give out any field gear until the cadet has earned the Curry and GES.  They can't even begin working on any GT ratings until that has happened.  And what if the cadet has no interest in GT, then they won't need the gear at all.

Our squadron has some extra uniforms, but nothing is given out until the member has their ID card.

[davidsinn]

Then, they had to get their curry before I would issue ANY uniforms.  And I put a 3 month wait on ordering blues.

How did they earn Curry without a uniform?

[jimmydeanno]

I'm curious how many meetings some of you require a prospective cadet to come to before you give them an application packet.  Several years ago, we asked the to come to 3 meetings, 1 with their parents, before we would give them an application.  They would come and observe, mainly to see if it was for them. The vast majority of the time, if they had invested that time into checking the program out, joined.  By bringing their parents, it gave us a chance to let the parents see for themselves what the program was about, answer any questions they had, etc. 

The problem I'm having is that my Deputy Commander Cadets gives prospective new members an app packet on their first visit, never meets the parents. He's even let some go back in our supply room and get BDUs, before they join.  Then they don't join and we don't get the BDUs back. He's even let some get field gear.  His response? "They'll need the field gear when they join and get their 101 card."  I know we've lost about 10 sets of BDUs and another 5-6 sets of field gear by him doing that. Short of putting a lock on the supply room door, or relieving him of duty, any suggestions?   I'm getting ready to have a MAJOR heart to heart "discussion" with him about it.

One of your posts says you are the squadron commander.  If you don't agree with how the DCC is handling membership applications, etc. change the policy. 

I think most squadrons tell people to come three meetings and then they can apply for memberhip.

[LtCol057]

I took the job as squadron commander in Apr, didn't want to come in and start making changes right away so I've been watching and observing, looking at each department.  I'm gonna change the policy. I'm writing up an SOP right now.  Already called him and told him we're having a CP staff meeting tonight. Might have a job opening afterward. Anyone want to apply?

We were getting some field gear from some of the military bases in the area.  The army was changing over to different style so they gave a lot to a CAP unit there. They got more than they had room to store, so we went down and got as much as we could.

[jimmydeanno]

Already called him and told him we're having a CP staff meeting tonight. Might have a job opening afterward. Anyone want to apply?

I think that would all depend on how you handle this.  It really isn't that large of a deal and easily remedied.  Of course if you come in and start telling him how lowsy of a job he's doing and the whole CP is going to h.e. double hockey sticks because of him, yeah, you'll probably need to find a replacement afterwards.  But just handled as a simple policy change with some well thought out reasoning behind it everything should be fine.

[MIKE]

Then, they had to get their curry before I would issue ANY uniforms.  And I put a 3 month wait on ordering blues.

How did they earn Curry without a uniform?

Ditto... Go read CAPR 52-16 again.

The problem I'm having is that my Deputy Commander Cadets gives prospective new members an app packet on their first visit, never meets the parents. He's even let some go back in our supply room and get BDUs, before they join.  Then they don't join and we don't get the BDUs back. He's even let some get field gear.  His response? "They'll need the field gear when they join and get their 101 card."  I know we've lost about 10 sets of BDUs and another 5-6 sets of field gear by him doing that. Short of putting a lock on the supply room door, or relieving him of duty, any suggestions?   I'm getting ready to have a MAJOR heart to heart "discussion" with him about it.

Yeah, change that policy now.  Make them wait the three meetings, fill out and submit application/CUP voucher (Which includes a return agreement BTW.) with payment... Wait for cadet to show up on eServices... Then have cadet and parent sign additional agreement that says you will hunt them down and all of their family members, if they fail to return any squadron issued uniforms and equipment prior to leaving the unit.

[Bluelakes 13]

In today's real world of real problems, it's irresponsible to accept cadet apps without meeting, or at least talking to, the parents.  I want to know of any school, family, or medical issues before I accept an app.  The youngster is usually not the best source for this info.  I have not turned down any apps for cadets with challenges, but I definitely put my staff "on alert".  I've had cadets with challenges where the program has really helped them get through it.  And I've had cadets where it just didn't work out.  If you accept apps (and the buck stops with you) of any cadets without knowing the entire story as best you can, you can borrow my .45 to shoot your other foot.

And always have the cadet come to a few meetings, especially with the parents.  Or you're setting yourself up for a cadet that loves AE night, but never comes back again after being at a PT/Testing night.  Or a Leadership/Drill night.  Heck, or even a Moral Leadership night.  They need  to understand the entire program, or you just may be wasting your time.

And that comment from another about promoting without a uniform?  Yikes.

[addo1]

 As recruiter, I usually handle all the cadet applications for my recruits. We dont really have an exact time, but we definately do not give them an app the first time. I would say it is a case-by-case senario, as you can tell right off sometimes whoe are the ones who really want to be there and give their time. Others take longer. On a basis, we usually do as much as we can with them the first night they come to show them all the prospectives. Then, I simply lay out the advantages and disadvantages, along with the time commitment and what I expect from them and what they can expcet from me. After all of this, I ask them "Are you still intersted in CAP?" If they really want to be there, they will give an enthusiastic response. Then, I ask them to come back next week, so they can see a different side of what we do. If they come back the very next week and are very active in the planned activity for that night, then I might give them an application at the end of the second week.  If I am not sure, I might ask them to come one more week before we give them an application.

[notaNCO forever]

We require a cadet attend 3 meetings before joining at are squadron. Then wait until the cadet gets there ID card and have their parents sign for the uniform.

[addo1]

In today's real world of real problems, it's irresponsible to accept cadet apps without meeting, or at least talking to, the parents.  I want to know of any school, family, or medical issues before I accept an app.  The youngster is usually not the best source for this info.  I have not turned down any apps for cadets with challenges, but I definitely put my staff "on alert".  I've had cadets with challenges where the program has really helped them get through it.   And I've had cadets where it just didn't work out.  If you accept apps (and the buck stops with you) of any cadets without knowing the entire story as best you can, you can borrow my .45 to shoot your other foot.

And always have the cadet come to a few meetings, especially with the parents.  Or you're setting yourself up for a cadet that loves AE night, but never comes back again after being at a PT/Testing night.  Or a Leadership/Drill night.  Heck, or even a Moral Leadership night.  They need  to understand the entire program, or you just may be wasting your time.

  I have cadets in my flight with anything from serious case of ADD to Autism. True, it is harder for them to learn about what they need to in certain amounts of time, but I have found that it really halps them in the end.  The disclpline of the program tends to help them overcome their challenges. This does not always work and this is a case-by-case senario as well, but in my experience, it works well.
  I have also found that CAP helps with speech dislexia. I used to have problems with my speech, and have had many cadets that do. Having cadets do simple things like sound off, or report help build their confidence, and help this greatly.

[IceNine]

Doesn't say I have to give them a uniform, it says they must wear the uniform properly.

Want me to get out my "Jump to conclusions mat?"

You are welcome to ask me via PM how I managed this problem, but I won't continue the derail.

[Pylon]

We don't do the "3 meetings" thing really.  We've shifted from the "trickle in" method to the "pipeline" method of recruiting - highly recommended by the national CP staff and in the TLC curriculum. 

We do a recruiting drive promoting an open house.  At the open house, potential cadets and their parents receive presentations on CAP, the CP, have opportunities to ask questions, and receive a membership packet.  The membership packet has stuff in it like the CAPF 15, CAPF 60, uniform return contract for the parents, a "cadet contract" and other paperwork.  If they're interested in joining, they show up the following meeting night for our "Inprocessing Night" - we take their paperwork, take their dues checks, issue their uniforms, take their file photo and start their 8-week Great Start program.  8 weeks later, they "graduate", etc.

As for equipment and uniform accountability, there's several components.  I definitely don't issue anybody stuff until I get their membership packet in-hand. That memebrship packet includes their membership form (so I know where to find them, and how to get ahold of them), their dues checks (money is a good guarantee somebody's going to come back), and a "uniform return agreement" signed by both the cadet and parents.  The uniform return agreement (which I shamelessly stole from NIN) explains to the cadet and parents that anything we issue them for free needs to be returned to us.

The other component is our Squadron Form 3.  It's an individual equipment issue record.  Every personnel file/member has one.  It lists what was issued to them.  BDUs, field gear, outerwear, insignia, textbooks or stuff from the squadron library, anything.  The issuing officer signs and dates the issue, and we have a column for signing the property back in.  It makes it easy when somebody leaves CAP to pull the sheet from their file and see exactly what they owe us back.

As commander, you NEED to change your DCC's policy.  Giving away uniforms and field equipment to people who haven't committed yet and aren't trackable is just bad accountability.  Definitely stop that ASAP.  And put in place, in conjunction with your Logistics Officer, some system to account for the property you issue so that you can recover it.

[MIKE]

We don't do the "3 meetings" thing really.  We've shifted from the "trickle in" method to the "pipeline" method of recruiting - highly recommended by the national CP staff and in the TLC curriculum.

One side effect being that next year at the end of the month you lose 5-10 in one go, instead of one or two. 

[RiverAux]

We generally give them the paperwork on their second meeting  and accept it if they come back for the third.