American Cadet Alliance

[stratoflyer]

Just found out about these guys. I've been doing some reading and they are going to be Army Cadets exclusively real soon. Anybody have experience with these folks?

[IceNine]

You can go to cadetstuff.org there is a bunch of information about them on the forums there.

NIN the managing editor of cadet stuff is the National Deputy Commander or something of the sorts.

He is also on this board

[DNall]

There's a few older threads here about their program as well, particularly the adult officer trainign aspect, but it covers quite a lot about their org. I have some stuff from them here somewhere.

Basically, they are dropping the other service programs (mostly naval cadets) and becoming the US Army Cadet Corps. They have strong backing by the top of the Army. They are seeking congressional charter that would give them status very similar to if not better than CAP has w/ AF.

They've traditionally been based mostly on the coasts. They are now aggressively expanding across the country. They are gaining and utilizing support of guard and SDF/state guard to find locations, resources, etc.

They are currently securing financing to purchase the Millersburg Military Academy in KY that used to be a CAP based resident military prep school. They intend to turn that into their NHQ, national training center, and possibly in the future open a military HS or Jr Col at the site.

Their adult members fall into either civilian instructor status or officer/NCOs. The officers go thru an OCS program modeled on NG OCS. It is a 1-2weeks session one summer, a reading/assignments program over the year, then another 1-2week finishing process in the second summer. It is from what I understand very good. Current/former mil officers bypass that training of course. I don't know what orientation they do though. I do know we talked a little about their cadet protection program, I don't remember too much about it, but it was up to par.

Overall it's a lot less gay version of the CAP cadet program. They don't have any issues saying it's military career exploration & leader training thru military program. They drop kids of pushups, etc. They do some decent field training, don't know about weapons but I would expect so. But, they don't have the real-world mission or the technical/AE aspects that CAP delivers, which is what I think makes CAP a significant factor in servicing the AF and our overall CP mission. There's pros & cons comparing the two programs.

Also, the costs are higher for yearly participation. There's a lot more required travel & other items than with CAP. Lot might be a bit strong actually, I'll go with comparatively higher.

Personally, I want to see them get up & running in my area, and I'd like to help to the extent I can, but I won't be leaving CAP to accomplish that.

[RiverAux]

It is also MUCH smaller.  The last time I saw some figures on their web page, they only had about 30 units.  Maybe a bit more in the future.  Personally, I would wait for official Army backing before I got involved with them. 

[stratoflyer]

There are definitely a lot cadet type programs out there, but as far as I know it, only CAP offers a cadet program, and a real world mission, AND lets cadet participate in those missions.

The ACA website could definitely use some bolstering up as I found broken links and information was hard to find. I sifted through some of their regs and I thought CAP's were better written.

I understand that there's a 2 week program for Officer training, and the there is a national unit for those who don't belong to local units because of distance. What if someone wanted to join as an officer but the summer training already took place. Would they have to wait until next summer to start their training?

I agree on waiting until they get themselves sorted out with the Army and phasing out the Naval cadets. Then again, someone can join and make an effort and contribute to the success of the program.

I was curious, that's all. I'm happy with CAP, and although I wish our cadets were able to do a little more sometimes, I just look at it as a challenge to find other activities and methods of instruction.

[DNall]

They're a good program, and I'll support them when they get ready to go out here, but I won't leave CAP for it, and I have some limitations between the guard, CAP, and having a life. What they really want are motivated leaders with some experience that can take the lead to stand up new units. They have all the support in the world, but they need those key folks on the ground. I can support all day, but I don't have the time to take the lead on something like that.

The officer training from what I understand is TWO 2wk sessions. One over a summer, do the year in a reading/guided professional development program, then another 2wk session the second summer. I'm just about certain about that.

As far as joining too late... it's not automatic to be accepted to their officer program. You can join and then apply, and not everyone is accepted. There's interviews and review board before you can start the training. If you joined in Jan/Feb, you'd probably be on track to make the summer OCS session.

[NIN]

You can go to cadetstuff.org there is a bunch of information about them on the forums there.

NIN the managing editor of cadet stuff is the National Deputy Commander or something of the sorts.

He is also on this board

Wow, awesome.  I guess I missed the orders appointing me..



Seriously, I'm the Director of Officer Professional Development (at least, that's what my business cards say!) and the OIC of the demonstration parachute team.

[NIN]

There's a few older threads here about their program as well, particularly the adult officer trainign aspect, but it covers quite a lot about their org. I have some stuff from them here somewhere.

Basically, they are dropping the other service programs (mostly naval cadets) and becoming the US Army Cadet Corps. They have strong backing by the top of the Army. They are seeking congressional charter that would give them status very similar to if not better than CAP has w/ AF.

Thats true.  Getting a congressional charter is like attempting to milk gold from a rock, however.  (there has been a moratorium on congressional charters)

The charter does not automagically confer the status, however. Thats still got to be written into law (on the congressional side) and regulation (on the Army side).

They've traditionally been based mostly on the coasts. They are now aggressively expanding across the country. They are gaining and utilizing support of guard and SDF/state guard to find locations, resources, etc.

Well, the program was extensive in the NYC area (down into Jersey, and up into CT, too, after a fashion) from its inception until just after the Vietnam War when interest in "things military" waned considerably.  The ACA had units in Michigan for years (back into the 1970s, as I recall from speaking to one of our retired warrant officers at the Birthday Ball last year at Selfridge), and in the "middle" of the country now there are units in Michigan, Missouri and Wisconsin.

The problem is, standing up a unit is a LOT tougher than starting a CAP unit from a "chicken or the egg" perspective, and also from a training and support standpoint.  We got a unit going in Missouri, and the OIC up and got deployed before he could get critical mass happening.  We had a unit starting up in Dallas or someplace like that, and the folks behind it decided to march in a different direction that was counter to the national guidance.  Ooops. 

They are currently securing financing to purchase the Millersburg Military Academy in KY that used to be a CAP based resident military prep school. They intend to turn that into their NHQ, national training center, and possibly in the future open a military HS or Jr Col at the site.

You're thinking of the Miller School in Virginia.   Millersburg is by no stretch of the imagination a "done deal," and while it *could* serve as military school again, that would be a *long* way down the road.

Their adult members fall into either civilian instructor status or officer/NCOs. The officers go thru an OCS program modeled on NG OCS. It is a 1-2weeks session one summer, a reading/assignments program over the year, then another 1-2week finishing process in the second summer. It is from what I understand very good. Current/former mil officers bypass that training of course. I don't know what orientation they do though. I do know we talked a little about their cadet protection program, I don't remember too much about it, but it was up to par.

CPPT is on par with CAP, because, frankly, we use the gold standard of CPPT to base our program on: CAP.  Duh! Why re-invent the wheel? 

OCS Phase I is 10 days at Annual Training, followed by Phase II, which is a distance-learning model of 11 or so courses (each corresponding approximately to 1 month) and then Phase III, which is another 10 days at Annual Training.

Current/former military folks do not exactly bypass the training, but complete either Phase III or the direct commission course (DCC) which is also for CAP folks who might be interested in shipping over (to borrow a Marine term). 

Overall it's a lot less gay version of the CAP cadet program.

Uh, that's not quite how I'd characterize it.   And I'd appreciate it if you found a better comparison.

They don't have any issues saying it's military career exploration & leader training thru military program. They drop kids of pushups, etc. They do some decent field training, don't know about weapons but I would expect so. But, they don't have the real-world mission or the technical/AE aspects that CAP delivers, which is what I think makes CAP a significant factor in servicing the AF and our overall CP mission. There's pros & cons comparing the two programs.

The entire cadet program development staff are either current or former CAP members. We have a former Spaatz cadet as our G-3 (Training) and three former Phase III & IV cadets, all of whom have had military careers in either the Army, the Air Force, or the Marines.  Three are also current CAP members.

Also, the costs are higher for yearly participation. There's a lot more required travel & other items than with CAP. Lot might be a bit strong actually, I'll go with comparatively higher.

You could probably go with "a lot" and not be far off.  I've spent more in 2 1/2 years in the USAC than I've spent in over 10 years in CAP.  I've flown to 2 CAP activities in 27 years.  I've flown to 4 USAC events in just 2 years (nature of the beast, I'm a HQ pogue!)

Personally, I want to see them get up & running in my area, and I'd like to help to the extent I can, but I won't be leaving CAP to accomplish that.

Shouldn't be too long now.

[NIN]

It is also MUCH smaller.  The last time I saw some figures on their web page, they only had about 30 units.  Maybe a bit more in the future.  Personally, I would wait for official Army backing before I got involved with them. 

You're right, there are actually closer to 22 or 23 units.  It _is_ very small right now.

But thats changing. Slowly. And we're building for the future. 

Go ask someone who's been in the Young Marines what happened when HQ USMC issued its "ALLMAR" to the Corps supporting the Young Marines.  Katy, bar the door!

[stratoflyer]

Sounds neat. I would like to give it a try. How much is it to join? There's no unit near me and I'm too involved with CAP at the moment. But wouldn't hurt to get that training so that when I'm able to help more I can.

[DrJbdm]

 I took a good hard look at the program and spent some quality time with Col. Land when he came to the Austin area. He actually drove a couple of hours out of his way to visit with me and try and get a program started down here in Austin. I think that shows the kind of drive and determination that Col. Land has for this program. You can tell from talking to him that this program means everything to him. I admire that in him.

However, I'm in the same situation as DNall, I just do not have the time and or the resources to build a unit up from scratch. Besides my wife would divorce me if I spent all my vacation time doing Annual Training every summer. I believe the USAC are in many ways superior to CAP when it comes to training their Officers. I have strongly believed for many years that not everyone in CAP needs to be an officer. We should be just as selective if not more so on who becomes a CAP officer. This is a lesson we could learn from the USAC. Their cadet program has a lot that CAP could learn from, they seem to be much more high speed then CAP has allowed itself to become. Perhaps things could change for the better. I believe we could both learn from one another.

  In my opinion, the USAC is an awesome program, it's one that I would love to have a very active part in; however it does have a few negatives that need to be worked out, one being the amount of time required to start a new unit that's such a long ways away from any support. However there really isn't anything you can do to change that except find the people who have the time, talent, and resources to stand a unit up. The other major downside; at least for me is the financial consideration involved. Traveling every year or so to Annual training can be very expensive, not to mention any other trips that might be needed in addition to AT. However, your situation might be different; I wish it was the case for me.  My department gives me 2 weeks of vacation a year, my wife normally wants us to vacation together yearly as a family. So, for me to go to her and say "Honey, I'm sorry but I have to spend 10 days at AT again this year; Oh and I have to eat up our travel budget to fly out there" just wouldn't work to well for her....now, if only I could get her to join too...... 

  I have to thank Col. Land for having spent so much time and effort on me and on trying to get a unit established in this area, it's ripe for a unit, there's tons of interest but as Lt. Col. Ninness has said, it's a bear of an effort to get something up and running. I feel bad that in the end I just wasn't able to step up and take the effort over.

[Pathfinder]

They don't have a real good reputation in my area.  They did an activity the same time as ours on a post and seemed to have some problems pulling everything off.  I talked to a couple of their guys who seemed nice enough but not really tuned in to cadet management which caused them some problems.  Their people even talked about having a hard time to have a sense of direction in their program. 

[dwb]

They don't have a real good reputation in my area.  They did an activity the same time as ours on a post and seemed to have some problems pulling everything off.  I talked to a couple of their guys who seemed nice enough but not really tuned in to cadet management which caused them some problems.  Their people even talked about having a hard time to have a sense of direction in their program. 

You could just as easily be describing a struggling CAP unit with those words.

Right now, ACA/USAC is growing slowly, organically, in places where they can find the talent to pull things off.  They're being selective because they can be.  This is a good thing.

However, I suspect they will have growing pains if/when they pull off the Army sponsorship thing.  They'll have a bunch of new units starting all at once, and new members joining all at once, and will probably struggle to make the "culture" of the organization permeate consistently across all of the units.  Annual Training helps with that, but it'll be an imperfect solution.

Still, I think USAC is a better fit for some cadets than CAP is, and I wouldn't hesitate to refer someone to it.  The people at the top are doing all the right things, and that's going to matter a lot if they have an explosion in growth.

[COL Land]

If there is an issue with one of our units, I'd like to know the specifics.   Please contact me by PM.


COL Land

[BillB]

A couple of years ago I had lunch with Col Land (he lives only 45 minutes away). But my problem is the training. I can't afford the mileage to training. A V,A, Disiblity Pension doesn't go very far.  While a LtCol in CAP (up through Air War College, and 8 years as Wing and Region DCP) I could have been a Major in ACA. That's fine, grade doesn't mean that much.
The training cites and costs were the only problem I saw. Otherwise it semmed a good organiztion decently run. To bad there are no Army posts on Florida to get uniforms or training.

[Major Carrales]

As with all things, it is the talent and willingness of people in the local areas to make these things happen.  An organization cannot and will not grow without people "faning the fires."

There has to be that core/corps (both apply) of individuals that serve as the guardian of the program.  To do the leg work.  To meet with the cadets and their parents as a teacher in s public/private school would.  A group or individual that can bring prjects to fruition and attract interested parties that will add to the mixture and solidify the program.

In CAP, I call it " regular unit maintenance."  The situation where stagnation never is allowed to happen.  Where everyone takes a small, or large part, in making that unit advance.

Without such leadership and direction, the organization...be if CAP, RED CROSS, ACA, Salvation Army or Knights of Columbus, will not survive.

ACA sounds great, if they had got me first I might have become as dedicated to them as I am to CAP.  I also wouldn't mind helping such a unit get started.  I wouldn't mind offering CAP STATION CORPUS CHRISTI to their use.  However, they would have to have the motivated individuals for it to work.

Then there is the whole idea of sharing membership.  I don't beleive in being the rivals of other cadet programs.  I face the impression of that with NJROTC and Amry ROTC.  Most people assume that we "must be rivals" and thus, all sorts of nonsense results.  I see it better as an enhancement...we offer things that they cannot and vice versa.

In reading the above posts I get the impression that most people have the "grass is greener" approach. Dennis' reference to the CAP cadet program being "gay" for example smacks of "CAP self-loathing."  We instill good citizenship and leadership...just because we aren't a "Factory" for USAF airmen or soldiers does not diminish our importance.

Fact is, if it was our goal to channel the youth into these directions...why have we so few resources?  I mean really, what direct operation funds have we at the unit level?  How can we expect a consistant product when the conditions are so varied from unit to unit?  People do what they can with what they got.  Anyone with a problem with that had better have funding to offer or move to and area to contribute to a struggling unit.  If not, all such talk is academic.

That applies to ACA as well as CAP.  I understand that LTC Land does just that in his dedication to his program.  I know countless CAP officers that liteerally and figuratively "go that extra mile" to insure their cadets have a good experience.  What more can ever be asked.  If there are inconsistancies, it is many times not for lack of trying.

This debate, if even that, on ACA and CAP is a good "apple to oranges" situation; different goals, different parent service.  I suggest we look at them for what they are...not through the prism of each on eachother.  It will be there that some common ground will be found that will benefit everyone.

[CAP Producer]

As with all things, it is the talent and willingness of people in the local areas to make these things happen.  An organization cannot and will not grow without people "faning the fires."

There has to be that core/corps (both apply) of individuals that serve as the guardian of the program.  To do the leg work.  To meet with the cadets and their parents as a teacher in s public/private school would.  A group or individual that can bring prjects to fruition and attract interested parties that will add to the mixture and solidify the program.

In CAP, I call it " regular unit maintenance."  The situation where stagnation never is allowed to happen.  Where everyone takes a small, or large part, in making that unit advance.

Without such leadership and direction, the organization...be if CAP, RED CROSS, ACA, Salvation Army or Knights of Columbus, will not survive.

ACA sounds great, if they had got me first I might have become as dedicated to them as I am to CAP.  I also wouldn't mind helping such a unit get started.  I wouldn't mind offering CAP STATION CORPUS CHRISTI to their use.  However, they would have to have the motivated individuals for it to work.

Then there is the whole idea of sharing membership.  I don't beleive in being the rivals of other cadet programs.  I face the impression of that with NJROTC and Amry ROTC.  Most people assume that we "must be rivals" and thus, all sorts of nonsense results.  I see it better as an enhancement...we offer things that they cannot and vice versa.

In reading the above posts I get the impression that most people have the "grass is greener" approach. Dennis' reference to the CAP cadet program being "gay" for example smacks of "CAP self-loathing."  We instill good citizenship and leadership...just because we aren't a "Factory" for USAF airmen or soldiers does not diminish our importance.

Fact is, if it was our goal to channel the youth into these directions...why have we so few resources?  I mean really, what direct operation funds have we at the unit level?  How can we expect a consistant product when the conditions are so varied from unit to unit?  People do what they can with what they got.  Anyone with a problem with that had better have funding to offer or move to and area to contribute to a struggling unit.  If not, all such talk is academic.

That applies to ACA as well as CAP.  I understand that LTC Land does just that in his dedication to his program.  I know countless CAP officers that liteerally and figuratively "go that extra mile" to insure their cadets have a good experience.  What more can ever be asked.  If there are inconsistancies, it is many time not for lack of trying.

This debate, if even that, on ACA and CAP is a good "apple to oranges" situation; different goals, different parent service.  I suggest we look at them for what they are...not through the prism of each on eachother.  It will be there that some common ground will be found that will benefit everyone.

Well Said Joe!

[stratoflyer]

Right on, Major.

All cadets in American national programs share many common things--more than what most people are willing to admit. I agree that a lot of times people just want to blindly compete--some people just want to see who could spit into the spittoon better. Is there anything there worth noting? Negative.

As such, learning from others is something we should always strive to do--academically, professionally, sometimes even spiritually. The key is to have an open mind.

I opened up this discussion here and so far I haven't heard any negative comments about ACA, only a few minor drawbacks insomuch as training and new unit startups.

Look at todays military, especially all you "hardcore" folks--I got two words fer you all: JOINT OPERATIONS!

Even in CAP we see this. Anyone recently get their 101 card would tell you about the Incident Command System and how it's designed to be flexible to allow interagency cooperation, aka joint interoperability. When CAP does a DR or SAR or CD mission, it is working with others.

Why should cadets be different? A successful future leader of America should and must learn how to work with others. We should not look at other cadet programs as forbidden entities, but rather as separate sections of a greater movement aimed at giving youth a chance to excel and better themselves within a military structure.

And I am glad that others so far have covered that little comment about our cadet program. If you are dissatisfied with the cadet program, please, by all means improve it, for we have much leeway to do so because if you really sit-down to analyze the regs, there is a lot that can be done to make our CP tougher, more stringent, and overall more exciting. I've seen units do this, and I've seen cadets step up to the plate. Just respect current and former cadets, and the CP.

I look forward to seeing the ACA make progress and hope someday to work with them and their cadets!

[DNall]

Makes you think of those guys back in the early days of CAP. GREAT, but small unknown organization, building from the ground up, requires absolute dedication, considerable time, and money from extremely talented folks that should otherwise be applying those talents to great success in military or civilian life (and thereby not have the time).

I mean if they had a larger program like we do, w/ several inter-supporting units & functional echelons of command that aren't states away... yeah absolutely I'd be over there HELPING them attain greater success & using my talents and resources to achieve that. BUT, I can't carry the world on my back. I can't be an active guard officer (certainly not a highspeed one), and an overtasked CAP staff officer, and carry one of their units from the ground up in some herculean effort. That's more than I can manage. Even w/o CAP I still couldn't do it.

I want them to succeed, and I'd like to help with that, but I think a lot of people (in or out of CAP) are in the same boat. It seems like there should be a better way when utilizing volunteers than so overtasking so few people. It's better to build a cohesive team and build up from there.

[NIN]

Look at todays military, especially all you "hardcore" folks--I got two words fer you all: JOINT OPERATIONS!
<snip>
I look forward to seeing the ACA make progress and hope someday to work with them and their cadets!

Without giving away the farm, I suspect you will see CAP & ACA cadets working jointly very, very soon...