What Are Your Thoughts On...

[356cadet]

Considering NHQ passes the ACU in about 2014.

[DC]

Considering NHQ passes the ACU in about 2014.

How does that affect the idea of transitioning to DCUs? Even if, God forbid, it we don't get the ABU before 2014, I don't see DCUs being any easier to get ahold of than BDUs, and it would be a little strange for the 85% that doesn't live in or near a desert...

[stratoflyer]

I'd be the first at complaining about the aesthetics of the BDU's. But thinking rationally, we really have no need for the subdued stuff. Remember that the Air Force has a say in our uniforms. Besides, who really cares how it looks as long as it has a professional look to it and is worn correctly. Our uniforms are not as necessary to our missions as the military's.

However, it'd be real cool if we did have subdues insignias!

[MIKE]

Considering NHQ passes the ACU in about 2014.

ABU Airman Battle Uniform, not Army Combat Uniform.

Make up a plate of flag blue on gray.  If you can, how about some tapes that are flag blue on ABU pattern?

[RiverAux]

But thinking rationally, we really have no need for the subdued stuff.

On the other hand, there is no rational reason for the bright name tapes either.  A subdued name tape that says Civil Air Patrol separates us just as much from the Air Force as does subdued name tapes that separate the Air Force from the Army from the Marines.  Even more so when the use of Civil Air Patrol doesn't actually imply any sort of link to the Air Force in the first place. 

That being the case, it is a strictly esthetic choice and that being the case, I prefer several of the suggestions made here over the year for a darker background to the tapes, etc. but still with white letters. 

[356cadet]

Considering NHQ passes the ACU in about 2014.

ABU Airman Battle Uniform, not Army Combat Uniform.

Make up a plate of flag blue on gray.  If you can, how about some tapes that are flag blue on ABU pattern?

Sorry, was thinking of Airman Combat Uniform (duiy!). I'll go ahead and render up some ABU cloth ranks, since I've gotten the request a couple of times before... I believe.

[Jolt]

The thing I like about our BDUs (over subdued insignia of any kind) is that I can easily read it.  I always have to squint when I see someone with subdued patches and I've never been able to read them until I'm three feet away.

Besides, it would just give cadets more of a reason to miss salutes!

[smj58501]

Let's see... we wear woodland camo... and then put on bright orange vests...

Always has been an interesting paradox

[DC]

The thing I like about our BDUs (over subdued insignia of any kind) is that I can easily read it.  I always have to squint when I see someone with subdued patches and I've never been able to read them until I'm three feet away.

Besides, it would just give cadets more of a reason to miss salutes!

There is no reason, with normal or properly corrected vision, that you should not be able to tell the difference between an officer and an Airman or NCO from saluting distance. You may not be able to tell from across a large room, but why would you need to?

Subdued tapes and insignia would be nice, will we get them? Not likely, unless we do some serious bridge mending with the Air Force, and that is not going to happen overnight. The best we can realistically hope for is something slightly less garish than ultramarine and white, maybe gray and navy, or navy and white, or something like that.

[DNall]

Just to be clear here, something like 1% of the AF has anything like a ground combat job. Even the Army is not remotely made up of ground combat folks. All military services are majority support troops, who have no direct practical need of cammo. Even considering the people that do engage in direct ground combat, they aren't doing that but a very tiny percentage of the time when deployed, and are not deployed most of the time.

My point is the ABU/ACU/BDU/etc are all general utility uniforms. None of them are very good camo, and outside of wearing an orange jumpsuit to combat I'd argue that camo uniforms are pretty meaningless in an urban environment anyway.

The whole reason everyone in the military (and CAP too) wears combat utility uniforms is to share solidarity with the deployed combat force - ie even though you're sweeping the floor in Kansas it in some way effects combat ops in Iraq, or by doing these SaR missions w/ a Cessna we save the AF money that they turn around into better training/equip/etc that makes them stronger/better. Now, maybe in some ways there is some little element of truth in some of those connections, and maybe there isn't. The point is less about the actual support than the psychological solidarity that contributes to motivating people to do their jobs well.

[flyerthom]

Let's see... we wear woodland camo... and then put on bright orange vests...

That's so you can git yer deer while yer out der:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9yhhflmvY

[JayT]

But thinking rationally, we really have no need for the subdued stuff.

On the other hand, there is no rational reason for the bright name tapes either.  A subdued name tape that says Civil Air Patrol separates us just as much from the Air Force as does subdued name tapes that separate the Air Force from the Army from the Marines.  Even more so when the use of Civil Air Patrol doesn't actually imply any sort of link to the Air Force in the first place. 

That being the case, it is a strictly esthetic choice and that being the case, I prefer several of the suggestions made here over the year for a darker background to the tapes, etc. but still with white letters. 

No, it doesn't.

[hatentx]

Just to be clear here, something like 1% of the AF has anything like a ground combat job. Even the Army is not remotely made up of ground combat folks. All military services are majority support troops, who have no direct practical need of cammo. Even considering the people that do engage in direct ground combat, they aren't doing that but a very tiny percentage of the time when deployed, and are not deployed most of the time.

My point is the ABU/ACU/BDU/etc are all general utility uniforms. None of them are very good camo, and outside of wearing an orange jumpsuit to combat I'd argue that camo uniforms are pretty meaningless in an urban environment anyway.

The whole reason everyone in the military (and CAP too) wears combat utility uniforms is to share solidarity with the deployed combat force - ie even though you're sweeping the floor in Kansas it in some way effects combat ops in Iraq, or by doing these SaR missions w/ a Cessna we save the AF money that they turn around into better training/equip/etc that makes them stronger/better. Now, maybe in some ways there is some little element of truth in some of those connections, and maybe there isn't. The point is less about the actual support than the psychological solidarity that contributes to motivating people to do their jobs well.

I see your point only slightly.  Army guys I can speak for in Iraq and I would venture to say 95% to 99% of Army personal were in some form or way involved in a combat.  It may actually be on the ground patrolling or on a guard tower.  A good number or Army personnel are in a position where they may be called off the FOB or have to convoy and may need to dismount and camouflage is important more so than some guy sweeping a hanger in Kansas. 

Now I can see the argument about the quality of camouflage patterns.  The ACU do work.  They are not designed to be the best at one but world well in all.  I have noticed having a hard time picking out a guy in ACU against a tree line while driving.  In the war we fight I would rather have something that is adaptable which I believe the ACU do the best job possible with what is and has been issued.

[stratoflyer]

I agree with the comment that wearing the same uniform as those in the field builds solidarity. I read somewhere not to long ago about Air Force personnel working in a civilian setting being ordered to wear BDU's so that they don't forget their work directly affects those in the field. (I think they were doing logistics work stateside in a regular office building.)

[JayT]

I agree with the comment that wearing the same uniform as those in the field builds solidarity. I read somewhere not to long ago about Air Force personnel working in a civilian setting being ordered to wear BDU's so that they don't forget their work directly affects those in the field. (I think they were doing logistics work stateside in a regular office building.)

So a twelve year old cadet has solidarity with an Airmen deployed downrange?

If what a person is wearing reminds them to do their job better, then you need new people.

[hatentx]

I agree with the comment that wearing the same uniform as those in the field builds solidarity. I read somewhere not to long ago about Air Force personnel working in a civilian setting being ordered to wear BDU's so that they don't forget their work directly affects those in the field. (I think they were doing logistics work stateside in a regular office building.)

So a twelve year old cadet has solidarity with an Airmen deployed downrange?

If what a person is wearing reminds them to do their job better, then you need new people.

That is where I am thinking as well.  I wear the uniform everyday and the last thing I think about while wearing a uniform is being downrange.  However training and taking experiences learned from the field allows me to think about being downrange. 

Does a uniform promote an environment of team building and a scene of belonging...yeah I would agree and saw yes but that is as far as I could stretch that argument.

[stratoflyer]

When I wear my uniform, yes, I do think an extra thought about the men and women serving in the armed forces. And so do the people in the street when they see me or others in uniform.

And when I put on my uniform to go flying, I know that when that uniform is on, I am in a different mindset--more professional, more calculating, and more focused.

Ever need to go to the store but you're already in PJ's? Is it that you're just lazy or that your mindset is focused on 'sleep'. It's called conditioning, not a need for new people.

And yes, a 12 year old should wear his uniform thinking about these things.

[Hookedonlemons]

Cadet desert uniforms...?
How many cadets in the whole organization operate or even STEP FOOT into a desert enviornment compared to those who don't even SEE desert?

[JayT]

When I wear my uniform, yes, I do think an extra thought about the men and women serving in the armed forces. And so do the people in the street when they see me or others in uniform.

And when I put on my uniform to go flying, I know that when that uniform is on, I am in a different mindset--more professional, more calculating, and more focused.

Ever need to go to the store but you're already in PJ's? Is it that you're just lazy or that your mindset is focused on 'sleep'. It's called conditioning, not a need for new people.

And yes, a 12 year old should wear his uniform thinking about these things.

Okay, I'll buy part of that.

One of my partners at work is an inactive Marine Lance Corporal. While most guys wear low cut EMT 'clunker' boots, he wear's high cut boots because 'feeling the leather on my ankle reminds me I'm at work.

Howeber, a twelve you old CAP cadet, or a CAP member in general, does not need to be reminded through the wear of BDU's that there's a war on. It's just not needed.

[sawgunner7]

Cadet desert uniforms...?
How many cadets in the whole organization operate or even STEP FOOT into a desert enviornment compared to those who don't even SEE desert?

Just a thought that popped into my head while reading this thread... A good reason for DCU(s) Might be the simple fact NOT that our mission requires them. But maybe that we are voulenteer... Usually Most Squadrons are under funded or don't have enough of the right size uniforms to give out. Or just don't have any. And most parents until they see there kids are hooked on CAP and that its not just a couple week phase. arent going to buy anything other that second hand uniforms if anything. And in some cases I have seen that it is easier to come across DCUs. So maybe it could open up a window of more adaptability. And be one more way for a cadet to get there hands on a set of uniforms? Anyone think of this as a good idea