Revamping CAP decorations.

[Hawk200]

A thread dedicated to some questions: Do we revamp our system, request eligibility for Air Force awards/decs, or both?

[JayT]

Revamp. Get ride of all achievement ribbons for cadets, and recduce Senior Memeber PD ribbons to a single one.

[Flying Pig]

Why does it matter?

[JayT]

Why does it matter?

It doesn't.

[LtCol White]

why would u want to eliminate the cadet achievement ribbons?

[JayT]

why would u want to eliminate the cadet achievement ribbons?

I think sir, we're giving out two awards for the same thing (with all but a few achievements.)

When a cadet pases Achievement One, he/she gets got both a stripe and a ribbon. Isn't that kind of redudant? We all know a Cadet Staff Sergeant has achievements One, Two, Three, and Four, just by their collar brass.

If it was my choice, it would be ribbons at C/SSgt, C/2d Lt, C/Capt, and a full medal for the Spaatz award.

When I was a C/2d Lt, I had something like twenty ribbons pinned to my jacket!

[LtCol White]

When you are older you tend to see things as redundant but to the 12 yr old cadet, its a motivator and a big deal. It would be a very bad idea to eliminate those. There ARE some senior ribbons that could prob be dropped but I definitely wouldn't elminate any of the cadet ones.

[DNall]

^second... and tmrw some time I'll get that list posted of adult awards that I put together. I think it'll make some sense to most folks.

[Snake Doctor]

Changing Officer PD ribbons as you earn the next higher level would be better.  Eliminate the subordinate CP ribbons after earning each milestone award.

[SAR-EMT1]

I've read the criteria for the USAF's old ECI ribbon. However I cant find the reason it was done away with.
I curious if it could be brought back for our use. If we had that we could kill ribbons for the top PD levels. (Except the Wilson)

[cnitas]

Changing Officer PD ribbons as you earn the next higher level would be better.  Eliminate the subordinate CP ribbons after earning each milestone award.

I believe having 1 single ribbon with a device denoting your PD level would be a better way to go. 

On the cadet side I would reduce the achievement ribbons to coorespond to our milestones:
Curry
Wright
Mitchell
Earhart
Eaker
Spaatz

[Tim Medeiros]

there are a few questions that come to mind when a topic like this comes up.

1) Why?
2) What benefit would this have on the total membership, beyond cost?
3) Again, Why?

[cnitas]

1.  Why?  - To present a more professional appearance more in line with our AF brethren (and less like Bolivian admirals). 

2.  Why? - Less cost to members is a good thing.

3. Why? - It might also make those ribbons that cadets earn mean just a little more to them than they do now.

[ColonelJack]

I mean no disrespect to those whose opinions will differ from mine, but if I have ever read of a solution seeking a problem, this one is it.

There is no real reason to revamp CAP ribbons and decorations, is there?

My rack sums up 16 years of CAP service with 14 ribbons.  That doesn't strike me as too many.  Remember, the regs say, "Wear all, some, or none" except on the service coat, where it's "wear all or some."  If you have so many ribbons that you look like a Bolivian admiral, then by all means don't wear all of your ribbons.  And if adding together your AD and CAP ribbons gives you nine rows of four, or whatever, then select the ones that best represent you and wear them.  Leave the rest off.

But for heaven's sake ... can we stop trying to re-invent the wheel?  The decs are what they are.  Let 'em alone.

Jack

[Timothy]

I tend to agree that it would not be terribly necessary. If we can indeed choose to wear or omit certain earned ribbons from wear then it is easy for each member to avoid the "admiral" look if they choose to. You could also choose to only wear your highest PD ribbon, or only wear commendations and/or operational ribbons, like the SAR, Find, etc.

I like how the newer ribbons being designed are using more traditional AF colors, like greys and blues, as opposed to orange or (shudder) purple.

I'm not a big fan of the leadership ribbon colors (blech), but that is just personal preference I suppose. Likewise, I find the order of importance strange in certain cases; such as the membership ribbon being more important than all operational ribbons (SAR, CD, Disaster relief, Find).  I would put operational ribbons above PD, as these involve personal risk, or at the very least, put the membership ribbon at dead last in importance.

But besides making more sense (to me) and looking a little less ugly (to me), there is no pressing reason for even these small changes. If you are talking about a complete overhaul to angularly mirror AF decs, or to try and incorporate AF awards into CAP (like AF Comm, or aerial achievement) now would probably not be the best time, with all the uniform chaos going on... though I suppose that some would argue that now would be THE time to do it, while everything else is being tweaked.

[BillB]

Col White, The National Cadet Advisory Council has recommended at least three times I'm aware of that only cadet milestone ribbons be awarded and worn. The Achievement ribbons be dropped. This follows the 1943 cadet program with only a red, white and blue training ribbon plus COP. Of course you'll find cadets wanting as much bling as possible, but I'd say overall they are in the minority.

[ZigZag911]

1.  Why?  - To present a more professional appearance more in line with our AF brethren (and less like Bolivian admirals). 

2.  Why? - Less cost to members is a good thing.

3. Why? - It might also make those ribbons that cadets earn mean just a little more to them than they do now.

I'm not entirely sure I agree that the AF "clean look" is necessarily more professional; the Army wears all kinds of badges and bling.....surely you are not suggesting that they are somehow less professional?

I mean, frankly, the USAF uniform is about as interesting as a Greyhound bus driver's (I feel I've over-used the US Postal Service analogy!)...besides, the 'less is more' philosophy in AF uniforms really seemed to emphasize two points:

First, "we're not the Army anymore"

Second, "Look, Ma, I've got WINGS!!!!"

By the way (and I'm sort of ambivalent on cadet ribbons for each achievement, even WIWAC it did seem like double rewards, rank & ribbon....but then I was well along in high school when I became a cadet), I was under the impression that all our cadets earned all their awards already....so why will giving them fewer make them feel these are somehow more deserved???

[Cecil DP]

Revamp. Get ride of all achievement ribbons for cadets, and recduce Senior Memeber PD ribbons to a single one.

National actually passed that one about 20 years ago. It lasted about 3 months befre it was rescinded.

[Cecil DP]

Changing Officer PD ribbons as you earn the next higher level would be better.  Eliminate the subordinate CP ribbons after earning each milestone award.

The ECI ribbon was a CAP Award. BG DuPont, the National Commander at the time thought we had too many ribbons and ditched it along with many others to include the Organizer and Cadre ribbons, all the special activity ribbons (there was a different ribbon for every one) and the encampment ribbon.

[DC]

While the cadet achievement ribbons do seems to be a waste of cloth to older/more expereinced cadets, to a brand new 12 year old cadet it is cool bling they can show off to their friends. Most of the cadet officers I know only wear their milestones, or they don't wear any ribbons at all...

My opinion: the achievement ribbons do get to be a bit much, but at the same time they can be a motivator to new cadets. It is strange when you have a 14 year old C/CMSgt with more ribbons and badges than an AD USAF Colonel... I have mixed feelings. I wouldn't cry if they were eliminated, but I don't necessarily think they should go..