greetings

[RogueLeader]

I was meeting with my chaplain today, where he works- he's a Major; and he introduced me to several people there as Lt. Seng.  If he doesn't have a problem with doing that, why should I?

[SarDragon]

I will go ahead and say "Hi, I'm Col Pierce from the Civil Air Patrol.  How're ya doin' today?" 

Your rank and title is "Lt Col", not Col.  When another person is addressing a Lt Col, it is ok to drop the Lt and call them Col.   However, it is never ok for a Lt Col to introduce themself as a Colonel.   

I disagree. Here's what CAPP 151 has to say:

Titles of address for Air Force officers and CAP officers

Title	Term of Address
General	General
Lieutenant General	General
Major General	General
Brigadier General	General
Colonel	Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel
Major	Major
Captain	Captain
First Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant

Nowhere do I see any other distinctions on usage. I have never had nor seen any problems with shortened forms of address in all my time in CAP, AFROTC, and the Navy.

[notaNCO forever]

Hi this is Daniel Patenude From the Civil Air Patrol. I use this for my cadets who know I'm an NCO. Also when I talk to someone from the military. Anyone else I put seargent in front of my name.

[SamFranklin]

Lots of people who are not in the military want to be addressed by their rank. And why not, they've earned it.



In the movie "Trekkies," the filmmakers follow Barbara Adams to work, where she is addressed as "Commander." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5hVxCJh6yw

[jimmydeanno]

Oh - that is GOOD!

[Short Field]

I disagree. Here's what CAPP 151 has to say:

Titles of address for Air Force officers and CAP officers

Title	Term of Address
General	General
Lieutenant General	General
Major General	General
Brigadier General	General
Colonel	Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel
Major	Major
Captain	Captain
First Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant

Nowhere do I see any other distinctions on usage. I have never had nor seen any problems with shortened forms of address in all my time in CAP, AFROTC, and the Navy.

As the chart says.  When you introduce yourself to people, you are using your title of "Lt Col".  When they talk to you, they can address you as "Col". 

This is especially true when using the telephone - as most people would not want to mislead them to believe they are getting a request from a Colonel and not a Lt Colonel.   In correspondence, it is ok to refer to Lt Cols as Colonels, after you have first identified them as a Lt Col.

[jimmydeanno]

Maybe we should make a regulation for this.

[Gunner C]

I disagree. Here's what CAPP 151 has to say:

Titles of address for Air Force officers and CAP officers

Title	Term of Address
General	General
Lieutenant General	General
Major General	General
Brigadier General	General
Colonel	Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel
Major	Major
Captain	Captain
First Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant

Nowhere do I see any other distinctions on usage. I have never had nor seen any problems with shortened forms of address in all my time in CAP, AFROTC, and the Navy.

As the chart says.  When you introduce yourself to people, you are using your title of "Lt Col".  When they talk to you, they can address you as "Col". 

This is especially true when using the telephone - as most people would not want to mislead them to believe they are getting a request from a Colonel and not a Lt Colonel.   In correspondence, it is ok to refer to Lt Cols as Colonels, after you have first identified them as a Lt Col.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Read a book called "The Armed Forces Officer."  It was put out by DoD for many years (may be out of print).  Failing that, try "The Air Officer's Guide."

There's a great deal of tradition behind titles of address.  Don't try to usurp tradition with fads.  I'll match my 41 years with your (fill in the blank).

GC

[Gunner C]

This thread is not about 'greetings'.   It's about respect.  Usually people give it out freely until you don't earn it anymore.

That is exactly what it is about!  You get it!

A title of address isn't something that you hit someone over the head with.  If rank/grades/whatever shouldn't be used in CAP, then let's get rid of it, stop military stuff like saluting, get rid of all uniforms except for polo shirts and VSAF, and just go as "Bubba."

But if we do, we jettison a huge part of our traditions and heritage.  I think that would be both a mistake and a shame.

I'll tell you, the last time I was with some Marine officers and NCOs, I told them to just call me "Gunner."  They replied "yessir" and continued with addressing me as "sir."  Now, who was being professional here?

GC

Tags - MIKE

[DogCollar]

As long as a greeting doesn't confuse someone else or misrepresent (intentionally or not) then using rank is okay.  Let me illustrate my meaning about possible confusion:

I work as a hospital chaplain.  In our facility we have many pharmacists who have earned the degree doctor of pharmacology.  We have other employees who have earned Ph.D.'s and other doctoral level degrees.  However, in this facility, unless you an M.D. after your name, you will not be called "doctor."  This isn't to denigrate or disrespect those who have earned doctoral degrees other than the M.D.  Rather, it is so there is no confusion among patients and their families about credentials.

There may be occasions where introducing ourselves by rank could be confusing for some people.  I think this can mostly be avoided by always adding Civil Air Patrol.  Such as "hello, I'm Captain Bill Boldin from the Virginia Wing-Civil Air Patrol."  (In reality, I would never use my rank, as I am a Chaplain, ans would introduce myself as a Chaplain.)

[brasda91]

That is exactly what it is about!  You get it!

A title of address isn't something that you hit someone over the head with.  If rank/grades/whatever shouldn't be used in CAP, then let's get rid of it, stop military stuff like saluting, get rid of all uniforms except for polo shirts and VSAF, and just go as "Bubba."

But if we do, we jettison a huge part of our traditions and heritage.  I think that would be both a mistake and a shame.

I'll tell you, the last time I was with some Marine officers and NCOs, I told them to just call me "Gunner."  They replied "yessir" and continued with addressing me as "sir."  Now, who was being professional here?

GC

No, this thread is about greetings.  Within the organization I expect everyone to use the proper titles.

What I'm talking about is interacting with members on active duty if your squadron meets in an armory or reserve unit.  If I have to call the NG guys, I don't want them to think I'm "throwing my weight around" by using my grade.  I don't know the NG guys enough to say "Hey this is so and so from CAP".  They're not going to know that I'm the squadron commander and if I'm needing something, that it is ok to assist me.

[RogueLeader]

No, this thread is about greetings.  Within the organization I expect everyone to use the proper titles.

What I'm talking about is interacting with members on active duty if your squadron meets in an armory or reserve unit.  If I have to call the NG guys, I don't want them to think I'm "throwing my weight around" by using my grade.  I don't know the NG guys enough to say "Hey this is so and so from CAP".  They're not going to know that I'm the squadron commander and if I'm needing something, that it is ok to assist me.

When I was living in Iowa, we met at the NG armory, and when dealing with the folks there, they addressed us by our Ranks and us to them.  There was no throwing "weight" around.  It is the proper Title of address. 

When calling people on Post for CAP business, I use the following:  Hello, I'm 1st. LT Seng, Civil Air Patrol. . . . Nobody ever thought that I was doing anything improper.  They either got me the information that I needed, or told me where I could get it.

[jimmydeanno]

I expect everyone to use the proper titles.

You're not allowed to set expectations, unless it's a hard and fast requirement people won't follow it...   

[Short Field]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Read a book called "The Armed Forces Officer."  It was put out by DoD for many years (may be out of print).  Failing that, try "The Air Officer's Guide."

There's a great deal of tradition behind titles of address.  Don't try to usurp tradition with fads.  I'll match my 41 years with your (fill in the blank).

Wow!  I am impressed.  Your 41 years sures beats my 28 years on active duty - but then I did take early retirement.   How did you stay in so long?  I vaguely remember the Air Officer's Gude and probably have a copy someplace, probably buried in with the other books left over from SOS, ACSC, AFSC, and AWC.   

I can tell you I have chewed out more than one RM officer (a few pompish Lt Commanders and Lt Colonels come to mind) that made appontments with my XO to see me over the phone using their "form of address" instead of their RANK in order to get squeezed into my schedule.   One tradition most RM Officers follow is to correctly identify themselfs to other people.    And that is what we are talking about here, how to identify yourself to someone else.

[DeputyDog]

I'll tell you, the last time I was with some Marine officers and NCOs, I told them to just call me "Gunner."  They replied "yessir" and continued with addressing me as "sir."  Now, who was being professional here?

You have to be careful about that kind of thing. Those Marines could have taken offense to you asking them to call you "Gunner".

A "Gunner" is an actual title of address in the Marines, reserved for Marine Warrant Officers serving as Infantry Weapons Officers (i.e. very respected....Marines & weapons kind of go hand-in-hand ). Instead of being addressed or referred to as "Chief Warrant Officer Doe", they are "Gunner Doe". To me, they were "Sir".

[JarakMaldon]

I can honestly say that I've never heard any LT use their "first" or "second" prefix in any situation.  Though, a lieutenant is a lieutenant, I would suppose.

[Major Carrales]

Wow, there's a lot of "self-CAP Hate" in this thread. 

May I take the time to remind you all that you are officers in the Civil Air Patrol and when working in the capacity of the Civil Air Patrol you can/should be addressed by your Civil Air Patrol Rank.  That is what professionalism in CAP means.

When you interact with the Military (there is no "REAL Military," only a Military; to use the former insinuates that were are somehow FAKE.  We are not part of the Military, We are CAP.  Nothing less, nothing more) it is not out of line to use your CAP Rank, provided you add that you are a CAP Officer in ways that have been already listed here.

By that tolken, if some of you insist that CAP rank is only to be used internally in CAP, then We should extend that same standard to Officers and Enlisted men of the Military when they interact in Civilian Affairs.  Newspapers would/should properly refer to General Petraeus, as Mr. David Petraeus a Major General in the US Army.

However, since he is working in his capacity as an Army General we refer to him as General Petraeus.  If you are working on half of CAP, there is no shame in using your rank.

[RiverAux]

I haven't had a lot of occassion to call the military as part of my CAP duties, but I do often call other civilians on CAP business and I haven't been terribly consistent in how I introduce myself in those situations.

When I have called the military I think I have mostly used my rank and "with the Civil Air Patrol" and my position.  Mostly because I think it helps them "place" me in their mind and since they're familiar with the terminology.  And since I'm definetely showing them the courtesy of using their rank I figure its fair to give them the option of using mine, though I wouldn't dream of making a deal out of it if they chose not too. 

For what its worth, in my life as a CG Auxie I have regular interaction with the active duty CG, but since the CG Aux doesn't have ranks, this exact issue hasn't come up.  However, on their own, many of the Coasties address me as "Mister".  Obviously, this is a correct polite form of address for a civilian (even in the CG Aux), however, in the naval tradition "Mister" is often used to address junior officers.  That being the case, I have asked them not to use it.  Also, I'm still not quite old enough to feel comfortable with young people calling me Mr -- maybe in a few more years....

[mikeylikey]

^ "Mister" is actually the correct title to use for a guy who is over the age of 18.  This country has somehow moved away from common courtesy, and it is becoming somewhat disturbing. 

Why would you tell someone not to call you "mister whatever"?

As far as titles go, there is no reason not to say this is "LT blow" when calling someone in the military.  When being introduced to a military member, use of CAP titles are OK to be used. 

I despise everyone who goes out of their way to walk up to members of the Armed Forces and say "oh no need to salute me, no need to call me Lt Col.  Why because I have had CAP members to that to me when approached on post/base, and to me that makes me think  "this guy doesn't even respect himself" or his achievements.  THEN I introduce myself as a brother CAP member and I see the shift in their thinking the instant they realize "wow, I embarrassed myself". 

 

[RiverAux]

^ "Mister" is actually the correct title to use for a guy who is over the age of 18.  This country has somehow moved away from common courtesy, and it is becoming somewhat disturbing. 

Why would you tell someone not to call you "mister whatever"?

Because in the CG, "Mister" is a proper form of address to CG officers all the way up to Lt. Commander and since CG Auxies have no form of rank at all, it implies I have more authority than I do since I would be wearing a CG uniform.  If I was there in civilian clothes as a civilian not in any way associated with the CG, this would be fine with me. 

Now, say I had my CAP hat on and for some reason was interacting with the Coasties, I would be totally ok with them using "Mr" since that would be an appropriate "naval" alternative to my CAP rank of Major.