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USAF blues

Started by PWK-GT, July 13, 2005, 03:53:58 AM

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MIKE

Quote from: Major_Chuck on July 16, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted.

Or 25 bucks used from the Hanscom AFB thrift store... 2 bucks extra for matching trousers.  ;D
Mike Johnston

Pylon

Quote from: MIKE on July 16, 2005, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Major_Chuck on July 16, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted.

Or 25 bucks used from the Hanscom AFB thrift store... 2 bucks extra for matching trousers.  ;D

Will the Hanscom AFB Thrift Shop take phone orders and ship?   :o

I've been trying to find a reasonably-priced officer's coat forever now.  eBay seems flooded with enlisted and old-style coats, but the officer's coat is a rare item and never in my size.   ::)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

MIKE

Quote from: Pylon on July 16, 2005, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: MIKE on July 16, 2005, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Major_Chuck on July 16, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted.

Or 25 bucks used from the Hanscom AFB thrift store... 2 bucks extra for matching trousers.  ;D

Will the Hanscom AFB Thrift Shop take phone orders and ship?   :o

I've been trying to find a reasonably-priced officer's coat forever now.  eBay seems flooded with enlisted and old-style coats, but the officer's coat is a rare item and never in my size.   ::)

I'll look for the number and PM you, but I don't know if they will take phone orders... A former SM NCO from my old unit found the coat for me, it even came with 1st Lt bars still attached... I found the trousers on my first trip... My last trip I picked up an overcoat... They had a lot of overcoats last time but not many Service Dress coats, so it's hit or miss.
Mike Johnston

Capt Mack

Another place you can get CAP and Air Force uniforms is at Uniforms and Military Equipment Old Lincoln County, Alamagordo, NM.  It is owned and ran by a member of the New Mexico CAP Wing.  He always has a good supply of uniforms and equipment.

http://olcnet.com/index.htm



Kenneth McEntyre
Capt, CAP
Springville Comp. Sq. AL126
Alabama Wing

shorning

Quote from: MIKE on July 16, 2005, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: shorning on July 16, 2005, 03:44:35 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dearg on July 16, 2005, 02:32:36 AMThey also have enlisted service dress jackets - note they are the "enlisted" style (with epaulets) not the officer service dress jacket so don't buy one of those there

Emphasis mine. 

Enlisted service coats don't have epaulets since stripes are worn on the sleeve.  Officer's service coats do since officers need somewhere to pin the insignia.

Yes, that would be true if it was in reference to the new style Service Dress, but not so when referring to the old style Service Dress which remains authorized for cadets.

Irrelevant.  The old style service coat wasn't "officer or enlisted".  One coat for both.  Therefore, I surmised he was referring to the new service coat, since they are different.  And...I dare you to find an old-style service coat for sale in AAFES or a NEX.

PWK-GT

Well..thanks to all the replies. It seems old eBay was a winner finally!
This weekend I got:
Nomex flight suit, flight jacket, pullover, light weight jacket, 6 pairs of pants, 4 shirts, and a non-nomex flight suit all for the whopping price of $65. I have also located a place that has the new style Class A tunics for $20...............
YMMV ;D
"Is it Friday yet"


Pylon

Quote from: griggs5113
I have also located a place that has the new style Class A tunics for $20...............
YMMV ;D

Oh, do share! 

BTW, I've only ever heard of German and British uniform coats referred to as "tunics," but YMMV.  :)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

PWK-GT

I can give out the name and number re: the really cheap blue Class A jackets--and woodland BDU's-- if anybody wants it. These are good condition used issue items w/ correct contract numbers (for the purists)Their website is still not up and running yet. PM or email me (griggs5113@juno.com) and I'll pass it along. I should mention that they are currently out of the officer version jackets at the moment. :'(

As to the whole 'tunic' thing--we used that term YEARS ago because too many yahoos thought a 'jacket' was their M-65. I guess old habits die hard.
YMMV--I like that phrase!
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 04, 2005, 04:10:39 AM
I can give out the name and number re: the really cheap blue Class A jackets--and woodland BDU's-- if anybody wants it. These are good condition used issue items w/ correct contract numbers (for the purists)Their website is still not up and running yet. PM or email me (griggs5113@juno.com) and I'll pass it along. I should mention that they are currently out of the officer version jackets at the moment. :'(

As to the whole 'tunic' thing--we used that term YEARS ago because too many yahoos thought a 'jacket' was their M-65. I guess old habits die hard.
YMMV--I like that phrase!
BTW, the term "Class A" is an Army thing, not a USAF/CAP thing. That has not been a correct and proper designation for any CAP uniform since at least the 1970s, and probably earlier. Using that terminoology today serves only to perpetuate a long standing error and confuse new folks who will have nowhere to look when they wish to find a definition.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PWK-GT

Well, it may not be a USAF-CAP thing, but we certainly refer to them still in the Army as Class A's...........Anyone that's been in for a little bit, anyhow. :-*
I also know at least 3 different suppliers (including the one in question) who refer to them as Class A's as well. And in keeping with what I was mentioning to the masses about said company.........I chose to use their terminology as well.
I'm not too worried about anyone that takes whatever they hear/read in an online forum as Gospel.....they have bigger problems than my colloquialisms. ;D
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

#30
That's exactly my point. We are no longer associated with the Army and haven't been for 58 years. Continuing to perpetuate the use of incorrect terminology is a disservice to new members. They are learning things wrong. Not good. "That's the way we've always done it" is rarely a good reason for doing things all by itself.

Regarding outside use of that terminology, if we don't affect the change from within first, it will never happen. A simple letter to a company explaining current policy might be all that's needed. Most of these folks just sell clothing and have little direct association with CAP.

As for the taking a forum post as Gospel, younger folks will do that - "I saw a senior member call them Class As on CAP Talk, so it must be ok." Let's do it right as an example for them.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PWK-GT

Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2005, 05:56:21 AM
"I saw a senior member call them Class As on CAP Talk, so it must be ok."

I have to disagree with you respectfully on this point. I beleive we are not doing ANYONE a service if we do not recognize the real problems that exist. I reiterate---Anyone using a forum, and NOT their own leadership at hand for what is Gospel, has a bigger problem. Why are they NOT getting the straight info from their chain of command? ???  To me, that kind of situation is FAR more serious than any chit-chat in a non-official web posting. Maybe you have experienced more helpless people than I have. :-\
YMMV.
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AM
I have to disagree with you respectfully on this point.
Good. That encourages dialogue.

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AMI beleive we are not doing ANYONE a service if we do not recognize the real problems that exist. I reiterate---Anyone using a forum, and NOT their own leadership at hand for what is Gospel, has a bigger problem.

Agreed. But let's not make it even bigger.

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AMWhy are they NOT getting the straight info from their chain of command? ???
 

Now we're getting to the big picture. To answer your Q, I don't have any all-encompassing answers. One probable answer is that the leadership doesn't know any better themselves. Another, more sad, is that they don't care enough to promulgate the straight info. As for my first reason, they may be victims of exactly what I'm trying to encourage folks to change - the perpetuation of bad info based on nothing more than "that's how I learned it, so it must be right", without regard for what might be really right. Hence my encouragement for change from within. If you know what's right, pass it on to those don't know. If they resist, there's not much you can do, but at least you've tried.

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AMTo me, that kind of situation is FAR more serious than any chit-chat in a non-official web posting. Maybe you have experienced more helpless people than I have. :-\  YMMV.

It is more serious, but we can start somewhere, and hope that more and more folks bear the standard for "doing it right".

People come to these fora because they aren't getting adequate guidance at their local units. I think we have some obligation to give them the assistance they seek, and at the same time, to refrain from passing on incorrect information. That, to me, is the the basic purpose here. Aside from the pure fun aspects of CAP Talk, and CS,  I post so I can share my knowledge and experience with others, and in turn, learn from these very same people.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BillB

One reason many questions are asked, is they CAN'T get answers from the chain. Most questions asked appear to be from cadets. Most questions could be answered by knowledgable senior members that cared about their cadets. But this area seems to be lacking in CAP. I know of one unit where "misinformation" is given out regularly because the Commander wants to run everything, but he is totally unaware of current regulations. (he previously served as a Squadron Commander 15 years ago)
The DCC is new to the cadet program, and goes along with the Commander's decisions even when wrong.
Examples of the Commanders errors.
He appointed himself as Testing Officer thru MIMS
He taught an ES class even though he lacks TTT or SET certificate.
He taught a Moral Leadership class that lasted all of 5 minutes. (he does have a degree, thus able to teach ML)
Cadets have not had an ES class that meets the AE portion
In almost a year he has not held any cadet activity outside of meeting nights.
There has been no recruiting program or fund raising program.
At a Color Guard practice, he drove away leaving 3 cadets (2 male, 1 female) with no Senior supervision.
Cadets in his unit can't get correct answers to questions that come up on various aspects of the cadet program simply because no Senior knows the answers or is willing to find the correct answers. It's gotten to the point that cadets want to break away and start their own cadet squadron.
While this may be an wxtrene example of reasons whay cadets ask questions in forums, I doubt this type unit can't be found in every Wing. The lack of senior support of the cadet program. Add to this the normal "politics" of CAP and the general lack of knowledge of current regulations and programs that exist in many Squadrons, and it's understandable why cadets, and seniors often post questions that can't be answered in their home units.

Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Buzz

Quote from: griggs5113 on July 13, 2005, 03:53:58 AM
Anybody know of a place that STOCKS the AF blue trousers??


Yep.  AFEES.  Why mess around?  Just go to the nearest AFB or ARB clothing store and try on to find your fit.  Once you know what size, then you can order by mail if you need to. 

Regarding the high price of super suits, yes, you can buy them cheaper at surplus shops or on ebay.  The problem with buying used super suits is that they rarely get rid of them because they are too good to keep.  I've lost track of the number of open rear seams I've seen on guys' flight suits, because they wear out from sitting.   If you buy used instead of new, you will spend as much OR MORE, because the used ones won't last.

You can write off CAP uniforms from your taxes, and you will wear them for years if you buy new.