Cadets and Orientation Flights...Grrrrr...

[Stonewall]

[rant]

This is yet another prime example why I get frustrated with the cadets of today.

At the meeting tonight, our orientation flight coordinator was looking for cadets to fly on 1 and 8 September, to burn up money before the end of the fiscal year.

Out of about 18 cadets, only one halfway raised their hand.  The pilot was so frustrated; I felt his pain.

I mean, you're a teenager.  You are given the opportunity to fly in a brand new airplane with fewer than 300 hours with some top notch pilots.  It's freakin' FREE!!!  All you have to do is get there!  I mean, come on.  What gives?

As a cadet, I had almost no interest in flying and aviation, but dern it, I was smart enough to know that flying is in fact, cool.  I used up my 6 flights in less than a year.  And back then, we were charged like $12 a flight for some reason.  I would have ruck marched to the airport if I had to.

I bet those cadets are at home on Saturday "flying" some video game simulator but can't manage to un-arse themselves to actually go fly in a real airplane.

[/rant]

[mikeylikey]

Why don't we say "CADETS....be at the Airport on 1 September.  Those of you who can not make it, you must be there on 8 September.  I too am sick of Cadets not flying when the opportunity presents itself!

In fact, I would go as far as calling the parent/ guardian and letting them know we have o-flights comming up and we would love to have the kid there.  ALSO.....I love it when a Cadet approaches and says "I never get to fly".  Well if they would get themselves to the airport, they would fly.

OK........bash away.

[bosshawk]

Guys: you won't get any static from me on your reaction to the cadets.  For about six or eight years, I refused to be qualified as an O Ride Pilot, because I got the same apathy from a bunch of cadets.  I also had the experience of scheduling with a couple who simply stiffed me and didn't show up.  I will waste time on stuff that I want to waste time on: waiting around for teenagers isn't high on my list.

Now, I fly for a Sq where the cadets can't wait to get in the plane and I am back on the list of O Ride pilots.

You never know.

[ELTHunter]

One of my cadets actually fell asleep during an O-flight.  Maybe if you made it into a video game....

[Stonewall]

So, from what I've gathered, this is common throughout the whole organization.

I wish I knew the cure.  I bet if we landed a CAP plane in Dili, East Timor we'd get 200 screaming kids wanting to fly.  Of course, they probably wouldn't want to get off the plane afterwards, but hey, at least they'd be motivated to fly.

[CASH172]

Well I have the option of flying in O-Flights, but what kind of a person that is almost half way to his private and has soloed times before would wanna go on an O-flight.  You can't land or take off.  You can't sit left seat.  You can't log hours.  They're usually less than an hour total.  They can't really teach much out of the syllabus which has already been throughly gone over in flight training.

[Eclipse]

When asked, a good number of cadets say that they joined CAP "to fly".

In many areas, the lack of O-Rides is cited as a major factor in retention, yet when the opportunity is presented, most can't be bothered.

Your frustration is shared by >MANY<.

Worse yet are the ones who commit to participating, then leave a pilot on the ramp as a "no-show".

This is an endemic problem in the program, in that we allow cadets to pick and choose what they will or won't do, then wonder why the whole thing is dissolving around us.

I like the idea of the "be there" messages.

We should be pushing 99-rides as well.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

CASH172 the answer to your question is.  "A PILOT".  I have known few pilots that would turn down an opportunity to fly for free.  You may have solo'd, but you still have a lot to learn and a good pilot can always teach you something.
There is much more to flying than landing and taking off.  For instance, do you know how to operate the gps, or the df unit.  How are you on the radios.  These are things you can do from the right seat.  Take advantage of every opportunity if your really serious about becoming a pilot.

I've been a pilot for many years, but I still like to go along for the ride, even if I have to sit in the back seat.    Nuff said.

[Eclipse]

Well I have the option of flying in O-Flights, but what kind of a person that is almost half way to his private and has soloed times before would wanna go on an O-flight.  You can't land or take off.  You can't sit left seat.  You can't log hours.  They're usually less than an hour total.  They can't really teach much out of the syllabus which has already been throughly gone over in flight training.

Easy there, Yeager.

I'm sure if you told the pilot that you have your own ticket, he could find something else to discuss besides the syllabus. 

[LtCol Hooligan]

We run into this as well.  I think it is super common and I cannot figure out why!!  We have taken to listing flight dates on the board each and every meeting.  We have e-mailed all of them.  We have e-mailed a list serve.  We have even gone so far as calling each and every one of them who has not done 2 o'rides yet to get them to fly before the end of the year.  We eventually got 15 flights scheduled, but it was not without work.

I am wondering if this isn't becoming a recent recurring theme for cadets.  We have had several activities we advertised this summer and only mustered a handful for each activity- even though we advertised them heavily.  My thought is that cadets are busy with many different organizations- I never want to tell someone to pass up an organization, but sometimes I think they need to realize they should only do 2-3 organizations and stick to them and do them well.  Parents are putting their teens into 6-7 organizations and it is making it so the teens can only do the bare minimums for each one.  This means they pass up extras like flying and outside meeting activities (the areas that are truly the most fun in CAP).

Back on subject- I did hear one squadron does something cool.  They actually assign cadets and o'ride pilots to each other.  This works because they actually call each other and say hey- do you want to go flying??  FYI- lack of communication kills any excitement you get from an o'ride program.  If the pilot forgets to call the cadet or vice-versa, that cadet/pilot will hesitate to do it again!!

[Rube11]

Almost every Wing is having the same problem...lack of cadet commitment regarding O'rides...and the Wing has to turn back $$$ each year!

Most of this apathy is the result of "how does this make me a better cadet" attitude by most young cadets.  Consequently, they will choose not to fly and stay home or not fulfill their commitment when they sign up and agree to fly.  OBTW:  If they are a "no-show" they should receive a "failure to show" verbal and written counseling that is put in their records.  They have to be held accountable for their actions.

Recommendation; tie the required cadet orientation flights to their promotion.  If they don't fly at certain points of time in their cadet career, they are not promotion eligible to the next higher grade!  Provide waivers only to those cadets who have a fear of flying, etc.

Rube11

[jimmydeanno]

^Had a cadet who signed up for a KC-135 flight and glider flight, no-show to each.  We had people who were on the "waiting list" as there were limited slots.  Cadet was "suspended" from participating in outside activities with limited slots for a period of at least 30 days with a notation in his record.

He didn't understand why, until we made him go apologize to the cadet that didn't get to go.

[Eclipse]

^Had a cadet who signed up for a KC-135 flight and glider flight, no-show to each.  We had people who were on the "waiting list" as there were limited slots.  Cadet was "suspended" from participating in outside activities with limited slots for a period of at least 30 days with a notation in his record.

He didn't understand why, until we made him go apologize to the cadet that didn't get to go.

Ditto - had the same thing on a 130.  Amazing and unacceptable.  The fact that in many cases there is little to no push from home, nor do a lot of parents even >know< what their kids are doing at CAP, doesn't help.

Until we start re-instilling a culture with an expectation of participation and ramifications when none is present, this will continue and get worse.  Seniors, too.

Yes, we're volunteers, but that doesn't mean we should walk around with the "someone else will do it" attitude.

One day we will wake up and find "someone else" was busy that day and CAP, "ain't no mo'".

[Flying Pig]

Well I have the option of flying in O-Flights, but what kind of a person that is almost half way to his private and has soloed times before would wanna go on an O-flight.  You can't land or take off.  You can't sit left seat.  You can't log hours.  They're usually less than an hour total.  They can't really teach much out of the syllabus which has already been throughly gone over in flight training.

Gosh....I guess you could consider the opportunity to interact with anexperienced pilot.  I am a Commercial -Instrument rated pilot and never pass up an opportunity to interact with our unit pilots.

[afgeo4]

Why not make O-Flights mandatory for promotion to certain grades? Say... Wright Brothers would require 5 O-Flights, powered, glider or combination of both. That way our cadet NCOs have a basics of understanding flight and are able to teach the youngsters about it. Maybe make it mandatory for a cadet to serve as an O-Flight assistant coordinator to get Mitchell?

Aviation is a mandatory part of our cadet progression already. Why not make it consistant and substantial?

[fyrfitrmedic]

 At times I've seen a combination of factors; the no-show cadets as the result of parents deciding that the o-flight day is the day to go [fill in the blank]... and neither cadets or parents bother to inform anyone of their "change of plans".

[jimmydeanno]

While that sounds great on paper, I don't think it would work out practically.

1) The cadet's O-Flights are more often than not dictated by the schedule of the O-Flight pilot that "happens" to have some free time to give to CAP.

2) The O'Flights should be spread out over the course of their "career."

3) The cadet may be deathly afraid of flying, but may like aerospace.  O' Flights are optional.

4) The cadet has a disability that prohibits them from a) getting in the plane b) flying.

[Eclipse]

Quoting exceptions is not the way to establish the rule.

I >GUARANTEE< if O-Rides were required for promotion cadets would participate and parents would be making sure they were there.

A very good idea.

[genejackson]

You will have a very hard time making O rides mandatory towards any promotions.   Wings only have so many aircraft and far more cadets than planes or pilots.  In my Group, we've had a very hard time getting cadets and pilots to meet up and complete the O rides.  There are obviously a lot of factors as to why but making O rides mandatory before promotions won't work.   

One of my more successful programs has been to assign each new cadet a mentor and that person takes responsibility to ensure the cadet is dressed correctly, has the correct paperwork done, knows when to be where, etc.   A senior cadet mentoring new cadets, a senior "seasoned" member for new senior members.   And that senior cadet takes responsibility to ensure his junior member gets hooked up with a pilot and plane.   This may not be the perfect answer but has sure increased our attendance and response rate towards completing O rides.

[Stonewall]

IN DCWG we did "O-Flight Weekends".  More than just o-flights, we made it a bar-b-q/model rocketry/AE weekend.  So after the weekend, cadets would earn their model rocketry badge, learn some AE stuff from a couple well-qualified celebrity types and get at least 1 or 2 O-flgiths.  And don't forget the food, probably the biggest attraction.