Lack of State Guard in Illinois

[gallagheria]

I don't know about not being able to give honorary titles, especially within the context of the state militia system.  Several states still follow that time-honored practice of appointing people as Colonels on the Governor's military staff.  Hopefully this would be kept separate from any organized SDF system. 

They are actually given that rank. It is not honorary. For instance, under federal law, all TAG's are federally recognized--even if they are not in the military. It is up to each state to set the criteria for becoming TAG. Here in Georgia, the only requirement is 5 years minimum service in the GaANG, GaARNG, or GaSDF, and the attainment of rank of major (or higher). Once appointed TAG, you are automatically promoted to major general.

Remember, even National Guard soldiers have "dual" ranks. You are commissioned by both the state and the federal government. LTG Poythress is a good example. His federal grade in the Georgia Air National Guard is major general, but his state grade is lieutenant general.

As for states that you always hear about that give honorary titles (most notably Kentucky), that his officially done through societies, not actually through the states.

[RiverAux]

Uh, wasn't talking about TAGs, but Kentucky Colonels and Nebraska Admirals.... they may be "real" ranks, but since no duties are actually assigned to them it would be hard to say that they weren't honorary only.

[SARMedTech]

Kind of like Vice President of the United States.

[RiverAux]

Ah, you forget that this is now its own branch of government!

[SARMedTech]

Ah, you forget that this is now its own branch of government!

No i didnt. Just saying that you had talked about titles with no job attached to them and the VP came to mind. I frankly was a little nervous for 2 hours and 17 minutes this morning when Cheney had the launch codes.

[RiverAux]

Ah, you forget that he is President of the Senate!  There actually is a job there to do and I think he actually has had to cast a few votes. 

[SARMedTech]

No...you assumed I forgot his Constitutional duty as President of the Senate. However its still not really a responsibility because he goes up to the hill and votes the way the President tells him to. He's a high price lap dog.

[RogueLeader]

No...you assumed I forgot his Constitutional duty as President of the Senate. However its still not really a responsibility because he goes up to the hill and votes the way the President tells him to. He's a high price lap dog.

Thats a far cry from before-not from you though- that President Bush was HIS high priced lap dog.  Boy, how the times change.

[SARMedTech]

No...you assumed I forgot his Constitutional duty as President of the Senate. However its still not really a responsibility because he goes up to the hill and votes the way the President tells him to. He's a high price lap dog.

Thats a far cry from before-not from you though- that President Bush was HIS high priced lap dog.  Boy, how the times change.

LT-

I love the fact that you always go the extra mile and say the thing that I am thinking....I dont know, it just made me nervous thinking of him with the nuclear football today. I just imagined him on board Marine One, giggling all the way to NORAD. Alot can happen in two hours....You he was thinking....[darnit]...Ill fix this Iraq thing for good. And Afghanistan, too if 'W" is under long enough.

[JohnKachenmeister]

A local radio station had a call-in contest to say whay you would do if you were acting president for a day, like Cheney.  I got a $25 gift certificate to Coconuts Restaurant with mine:

"Call up Monica Lewinski and ask her if she wants her old job back."

[aveighter]

I love the fact that you always go the extra mile and say the thing that I am thinking....I dont know, it just made me nervous thinking of him with the nuclear football today. I just imagined him on board Marine One, giggling all the way to NORAD. Alot can happen in two hours....You he was thinking....[darnit]...Ill fix this Iraq thing for good. And Afghanistan, too if 'W" is under long enough.

And your problems with the Vice President are precisely, what?

[PWK-GT]

As someone who was actively involved with trying to re-start the Illinois Reserve Militia (what the Ill SG was traditionally called when active thru about 1948) I can say one thing largely led to the efforts being put on stand-by: The AG office in ILL has a long history of saying NOPE to this idea. It was stated to me that if they say they can't do the job by themselves, then that makes them look inefficient. Typical Land Of Lincoln BS.......justifying your own existence at the cost of funding dollars. Look at how the ARNG treats CAP units in-state: Paying premium for work space, and almost no support (there are few exceptions I know of). And guess how they would treat an agency that would be modeled more after themselves-- and a more direct threat to their livelihood. Regardless of how other states have instituted their own SG units. It's hard to work with closed minds. There was always my hope of 'new staff, new opportunities' regarding TAG here, but the situation never seemed to improve with those slot changes.

However, if you are truly determined, PM me and I can fill you in on some things where they last left off about 8 years ago. I also have some volumes related to the efforts that I would send to you (you pay the shipping) to get you started. Statutes, proposed TOE, charter info, etc. It's just collecting dust now.....

I have to mention in all honesty, that I am no longer an advocate for the IRM in Illinois. In some areas of proposed responsibility, I see CAP able to fill a void (based on situations like IAWG) and figure it is much better to work with the system we have-- rather than try the Herculian effort again to start yet another agency in Illinois.
YMMV....best of luck.

[dogboy]

I've certainly never heard of any political appointments there in recent years. 

http://antonovich.co.la.ca.us/LtCol%20Antonovich/index.htm

Prior service: Army Reserve when 18. No active service apparent.

[dogboy]

I've certainly never heard of any political appointments there in recent years.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Way_of_Plean

[dogboy]

I've certainly never heard of any political appointments there in recent years.   

Ten minutes on the web found:

Celes King III

http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=hb9z09p6tg&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=div00009&toc.depth=1&toc.id=div00004&brand=oac

Gil Coerper

http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/or/vote/coerper_g/bio.html

Hon. Irving S. Feffer

http://pview.findlaw.com/view/2457982_1?noconfirm=0&channel=CCC

James W. Goddard

http://www.seekingthelost.org/about.html

Johnny Grant
Ceremonial
Mayor of Hollywood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Grant

If I were in California, I sure would feel safe with Major General Johnny Grant, CSMR (Ret) protecting me. One thing I can't understand: how can it be a State Military Reserve when they're not allowed to have weapons?

[RiverAux]

Dogboy, the only one of those that actually mention "honorary" is the guy from Scotland.  Based on what was on the web, how do you know the others actually hadn't worked their way up to those ranks? Several of them mentioned being in the organization for quite a few years. 

[PA Guy]

I've certainly never heard of any political appointments there in recent years.   

Ten minutes on the web found:

Celes King III

http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=hb9z09p6tg&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=div00009&toc.depth=1&toc.id=div00004&brand=oac

Gil Coerper

http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/or/vote/coerper_g/bio.html

Hon. Irving S. Feffer

http://pview.findlaw.com/view/2457982_1?noconfirm=0&channel=CCC

James W. Goddard

http://www.seekingthelost.org/about.html

Johnny Grant
Ceremonial
Mayor of Hollywood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Grant

If I were in California, I sure would feel safe with Major General Johnny Grant, CSMR (Ret) protecting me. One thing I can't understand: how can it be a State Military Reserve when they're not allowed to have weapons?

If you had dug a little deeper in your research you would have found that the examples you gave were from the early '80s and '90s.  These people are no longer in CSMR.  Johnny Grant, also retired, was involved in CSMR in WW II and later.  Mike Antonovich, an LA County supervisor,  was a political appointment several yrs ago.  There is no doubt that at times some appointments in CSMR were political in nature.  However, a political appointment today would be very rare.

The CSMR is not an armed force per se and is not meant to be.  The CSMRs main function is to support the CA Natl. Guard.  That is not to say that they are not "allowed" to have weapons, as evidenced by the CSMR Small Arms Training Team and the CSMR personnel now serving on paid State Active Duty as armed guards. Is there a cite for CMSR not being "allowed" to be armed?

A look at the CSMR website, http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/ , gives a good overview of CSMR and the activities and benefits available in CSMR.  A look at the senior leadership bios is also worth a look.

[dogboy]

Dogboy, the only one of those that actually mention "honorary" is the guy from Scotland.  Based on what was on the web, how do you know the others actually hadn't worked their way up to those ranks? Several of them mentioned being in the organization for quite a few years. 

The Scot is the only one being honest. The rest are political appointments. Yes, Major General Johnny Grant was in the SMR for several years. His biography is readily available on the web. For example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Grant  There's nothing to justify his appointment MG except maybe his two Emmys.

[dogboy]

Mike Antonovich, an LA County supervisor,  was a political appointment several yrs ago. 

Four years ago exactly. Here's CSMR pages showing him off http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/moenhonored.htm http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/asaward.htm I guess the CSMR isn't ashamed of its "political appointments"

There is no doubt that at times some appointments in CSMR were political in nature.  However, a political appointment today would be very rare.

Why don't you provide a list of CSMR Colonels and Lt Cols so we can see how many are political appointments?

The CSMR is not an armed force per se and is not meant to be.  The CSMRs main function is to support the CA Natl. Guard.  That is not to say that they are not "allowed" to have weapons, as evidenced by the CSMR Small Arms Training Team and the CSMR personnel now serving on paid State Active Duty as armed guards. Is there a cite for CMSR not being "allowed" to be armed?

I looked carefully through the website you suggested and I saw no evidence of even the use of small arms. There were lots of misleading photographs like http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/40thvisit06.htm that implies the helicopters shown belong to the CSMR

I  did find CSMR with M-16s but they had blank firing adapters portraying untrained insurgents in an exercise with the NG. The fact that ""We wanted the soldiers who may not have had previous combat training to understand the basics..."  indicates the skill level of the CSMR. They might as well have collected teenagers at random from a shopping mall apparently. http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/opfor1.htm

CSMR Small Arms Training Team as the name implies, this unit trains others to use small arms so far as I can tell it is not authorized to use arms operationally themselves.

CSMR personnel now serving on paid State Active Duty as armed guards.
Basically, it's a cheap way to provide security, since only E-3 to E-6 are eligible. While SMR personnel are eligible, no reference I've seen indicates that any are actually doing this. There don't seem to be many E-3 to E-6s in the SMR; almost everyone is an officer, warrant officer, or CSM. http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/dherz/Police%20Reserve%20Trainee.pdf

There is a new program to develop 120 reserve Military Police in the SMR. They will be armed. As a former law enforcement officer myself, I don't have a lot of faith in MPs trained only one day a month http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/dherz/Police%20Reserve%20Trainee.pdf
Frankly, I don't think MPs with so little training and experience should be armed. If their training is not very significantly increased, I predict any deployment will be a disaster. If they are used simply as static security guards, which is my suspicion, they might do alright. The training for a California "armed security guard" card is only 40 hours with an open book test. http://targetmasterswest.com/_wsn/page5.html

The CSMR are not banned by law from the use of firearms but as a practical matter, most receive no training in their use and members are not issued firearms. Here's the schedule for the Annual Training 2007 http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/pdf/ATDAILYSCHEDULECOURSELIST4.pdf
There's no firearms training AT ALL.

  A look at the senior leadership bios is also worth a look.

What strikes me right off is how inflated is the number of senior officers. The CSMR has about 500-750 personnel (sources vary). Even the larger number is smaller than an Army battalion that would be commanded by ONE lieutenant colonel, two or three majors and captains and six or seven lieutenants.

The CSMR website shows one BG, 16 Colonels, a LTC, a Major, CWO, and CSM, and that seems to be only the HQ Detachment command and staff.

According to http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/unitcontacts.htm there are about 16 CSMR units in addition to HQ. Assuming 500 CSMR personnel (many of them, like LTC Antonovich, not active) that averages out to about 31 personnel per unit, smaller than a platoon, yet most are "commanded" by a Colonel, LTC or Major.

For example, the 100th Troop Command Support Brigade was able to field 25 soldiers out of 34 TOTAL for a field training exercise. These 34 are commanded by a bird colonel. http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/opfor1.htm

BTW, many of the units are termed "brigades" which would justify their commander being a bird colonel. However, in the US Army, a brigade is at a minimum 2 battalions and frequently 4. Yet we have seen that the whole CSMR is smaller than a single battalion.

Here's a summary of my opinion of the CSMR and other SDFs. I've been a Marine and I know being a soldier is dirty, nasty, and dangerous.

The whole concept of State Defense Forces are a failure because except for brief periods when there is a general belief that our country is truly in imminent danger, very, very few Americans will choose to be soldiers for free.

Many who join a SDF, no doubt, are motivated by patriotism. Perhaps also by the fact that they get to be Colonels and Majors even if there are virtually no enlisted personnel to command.

Of course, some of the above can be said about the CAP. We're all "officers" whether we deserve to be or not.  Most of us Majors at least.

However, no one above the age 18 pretends that the CAP is a military organization (In spite of my advanced rank, I have never been saluted by another Senior member, nor would I expect to be. I do salute others but it is thought to be rather eccentric)

Also, the CAP has AIRPLANES. Most of us are in the CAP because it offers us the opportunity to fly and to do some good at the same time. Finally, the CAP has Cadets. Many CAP Senior members are dedicated to the belief that the Cadet program produces better youth.

The CSMR has no airplanes, no weapons, no Cadet corps, and not much of a mission. What it does have is lots and lots of generals, colonels, and majors.

[PA Guy]

I suppose we all see what we want.  You seem to only see grade, weapons and following an agenda. Go for it, and I salute your "advanced" CAP grade whatever it is.  Good luck.