Senior member gray uniform

Started by vandy, May 26, 2005, 02:04:48 PM

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vandy

Well, I've put on a few pounds since my cadet days, and I'm about to rejoin as a senior. I can't wear the blues yet because I'm not in the right weight range, but I don't want to go totally corporate either. I understand there is an aviator shirt option where you wear epaulets, ribbons, name plate, etc. with gray pants. Does anyone know more about this? Thanks.

dwb

Yep, you just described the aviator shirt option.  Grey slacks, white aviator shirt with grey nameplate, epaulets, and whatever other CAP devices you may have earned.

Looks something like this (who is that handsome man?):


arajca

Absolutely. Van Hussen make the shirt. It is their Aviator shirt. You can get them direct at www.vhpilotshirts.com. They are less expensive than CAPMart.

You need to wear a pair of medium grey slacks. Dress slacks look better with it than casual. You can get the pants at any clothing outlet.

As for accessories; you can wear all your CAP ribbons - NO MILITARY RIBBONS, the grey nameplate (same as the blues), grey epaulet grade slides, ONE CAP aviation badge and one other CAP badge, OR one other CAP badge - NO MILITARY BADGES. No wing patch.

Black civilian, non-woven belt; black shoes or boots - I prefer dress shoes.

arajca

Quote from: justin_bailey on May 26, 2005, 02:16:37 PM
Yep, you just described the aviator shirt option.  Grey slacks, white aviator shirt with grey nameplate, epaulets, and whatever other CAP devices you may have earned.

Looks something like this (who is that handsome man?):


You have one too many badges on.

dwb

#4
Quote from: arajca on May 26, 2005, 02:23:50 PMYou have one too many badges on.

Non-starter, that picture was taken before the new CAPM 39-1 hit the streets. :P I don't wear the CP badge anymore.

NOTE: For those that are lost, look at CAPM 39-1, the note at the bottom of page 110.

The 1997 manual had a contradiction in it.  Para 6-4(2) stated that the aviation badge plus one additional badge was authorized on the aviator shirt, while para 5-3 clearly applied to all uniform combinations and allowed more badges.

In the 2005 manual, there is an additional note that unambiguously sets a maximum of two badges on the aviator shirt.

A couple years back, I had submitted a question to the Knowledgebase about this, and they cited para 5-3 as justification for allowing more than two badges on the aviator.  Looks like they have now reneged on that and capped the badge count at two, which is fine by me.  I had stopped wearing my CP badge some time ago, anyway.

But I digress...

(edited for bad grammar)

abysmal

Quote from: vandy on May 26, 2005, 02:04:48 PM
Well, I've put on a few pounds since my cadet days, and I'm about to rejoin as a senior. I can't wear the blues yet because I'm not in the right weight range, but I don't want to go totally corporate either. I understand there is an aviator shirt option where you wear epaulets, ribbons, name plate, etc. with gray pants. Does anyone know more about this? Thanks.

By ALL means go for the Aviator combination, Please don't go for the "Bowling Shirt"...
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

arajca

Actually, the golf shirt is more approriate than the aviator shirt in some instances. Up here, the aviator shirt would be 'overdressing' for the culture, while the golf shirt (with embriodered seal) is very appropriate. That being said, I generally wear the aviator shirt to unit meetings and the golf shirt to meet with outside organizations, although I have worn the golf shirt when I was running late and didn't have time to set up my aviator shirt.

MIKE

IMO... The AF style and CAP distinctive uniforms do a decent job at being equivalent to each other.  What I mean is the S/S aviator shirt combo stacks up well against the S/S Service Uniform, the BFU against the BDU etc.

To me the golf shirt combo is sort of in-between the S/S Service Uniform and the BDU... More utility than the aviator shirt combo and less utility than the BFU.

Not sure how the BUU fits into the mix... It's the non-flight suit flight suit that doesn't seem to have an AF style equivalent and appears to have less utility than the BFU or BDU.
Mike Johnston

arajca

The aviator shirt uniform is supposed to be equal to the AF service uniform. the blazer equals the service dress, and the bfu equals the bdu according to National.

I think the utility uniform fits into the mix by providing a flying suit for aircrews that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. It also has a 'quick response uniform' capability in that the utility uniform and a pair of black boot fits into a small bag that can be kept in the trunk for those times when you get called out and you're not a home.

Major_Chuck

I really like the Aviator uniform.  Professional looking for what we do.  The times I wear the 'bowling shirt' as it has been called is when traveling any distance to a CAP meeting.  It is just a comfort thing overall.

-CC
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Major_Chuck

More thoughts.

When I am deciding upon which uniform to wear it all depends upon what I am doing.  Informal meetings:  "The Bowling Shirt" Combo,  semi formal meetings and training activities the Aviator uniform.  Formal occassions, AF Service Dress or Blazer Combo.  Flying:  Flight suit.


Sad part is that half of my closet is CAP style uniforms.  The other half is my wifes 'stuff'. 


Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

abysmal

That seems like a very reasonable approach.

All I ask is that if your working with the Cadets that you not show up in the bowling shirt.

It leaves all of them just shaking their heads wondering why the Senior members don't care enough to look their best when the cadets are expected to toe the line..
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

Major_Chuck

Another personal rule of thumb.

When I work with cadets I try to wear the same uniform combination that they are wearing.

The only time that I did not wear the same uniform was when I did a DDR talk with a group of cadets and wanted to eliminate any 'walls' that a uniform might have imposed.  I wore the golf shirt combination and feel that the lack of visable rank allowed the cadets to open up and ask questions without feeling intimidated.

CISM is another area that wearing rank is discouraged.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

pixelwonk

Quote from: Major_Chuck on May 27, 2005, 12:30:42 AM
CISM is another area that wearing rank is discouraged.

I also encourage my inspectors to wear the most casual (yet proper) uniform they have when they are performing subordinate unit inspections.  Like the other examples noted, it helps to minimize any "walls" going up.

vandy

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all the info. I think I've figured out how to piece together the aviator shirt combo now. What is the "bowling shirt"? When I was a cadet (over 10 years ago) some seniors wore this shirt that was not tucked in...is that it? I want to present something of a military image, because I feel that if the cadets need to wear all of their insignia correctly, I should too. I was a cadet officer, so I remember how I felt about seniors who showed up in wrinkled uniforms with unshined shoes and their ribbons backwards.

As far as removing rank while leading CISM (we're talkling about Critical Incident Stress Management here, right?)...that sounds like a good idea. I've only done CISM debriefings in a civilian setting before, so I've never had that issue. I'm coming back on board as a chaplain. Do I need to remove that device as well, or is it okay to keep that on? Thanks.

Major_Chuck

We're are joking about the blue golf shirt combo we can wear as an optional uniform when we call it the 'bowling shirt'.   ;D

I can't think of the National director for CISM, Sherry ________________.  She told me that for CISM work all 'rank' was left at the door.  I am sure any chaplain insignia may be appropriate.





Quote from: vandy on May 27, 2005, 02:14:37 AM
Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all the info. I think I've figured out how to piece together the aviator shirt combo now. What is the "bowling shirt"? When I was a cadet (over 10 years ago) some seniors wore this shirt that was not tucked in...is that it? I want to present something of a military image, because I feel that if the cadets need to wear all of their insignia correctly, I should too. I was a cadet officer, so I remember how I felt about seniors who showed up in wrinkled uniforms with unshined shoes and their ribbons backwards.

As far as removing rank while leading CISM (we're talkling about Critical Incident Stress Management here, right?)...that sounds like a good idea. I've only done CISM debriefings in a civilian setting before, so I've never had that issue. I'm coming back on board as a chaplain. Do I need to remove that device as well, or is it okay to keep that on? Thanks.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

pixelwonk


Major_Chuck

Thanks.  Couldn't remember her last name.

Quote from: tedda on May 28, 2005, 01:05:00 AM
Jones.

Sherry Jones
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Buzz

Quote from: abysmal on May 26, 2005, 11:43:11 PM
That seems like a very reasonable approach.

All I ask is that if your working with the Cadets that you not show up in the bowling shirt.

It leaves all of them just shaking their heads wondering why the Senior members don't care enough to look their best when the cadets are expected to toe the line..


When I first came back in as a SM, squadron policy was that if you are in weight and grooming standards, the uniform standard was AF Class A, except when flying -- AF supersuit -- or doing stuff which BDUs are right for.  The only people who wore the submarine jumpsuit or other "distinctive" uniforms were those who didn't meet the standards.

I've held to that ever since, and it's been important enough to me to skip the buffet a few times to keep in weight standards.

abysmal

sounds like a good plan to me.
Wish more members would follow it.
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

RF273

AF/CAP weight standards are not the only reason to not wear AF-style uniform. I know a number of seniors who meet the physical requirements (weight) but opt for the CAP uniforms for other grooming reasons - hair length, beards, etc. As a women, there are times when I prefer to wear the CAP uniforms so I don't want to put up my long hair (I hate wearing my hair up,) especially if it is only a meeting and there are no safety concerns with wearing my hair down. Another reason is cost - the CAP uniforms cost a lot less. Civilian/commercial blue blazer is only around $50, gray slacks are also not too expensive (and can be worn as part of a person's regular wardrobe,) etc. When you add up AF-style ($160 for the service dress coat alone!) the CAP uniforms are a good alternative. For me, I would rather spend money on good SAR equipment and not AF-style uniforms if given the choice (can't afford to do both, or not too often.)

Pylon

Quote from: RF273 on October 18, 2005, 06:59:42 PM
AF/CAP weight standards are not the only reason to not wear AF-style uniform. I know a number of seniors who meet the physical requirements (weight) but opt for the CAP uniforms for other grooming reasons - hair length, beards, etc. As a women, there are times when I prefer to wear the CAP uniforms so I don't want to put up my long hair (I hate wearing my hair up,) especially if it is only a meeting and there are no safety concerns with wearing my hair down. Another reason is cost - the CAP uniforms cost a lot less. Civilian/commercial blue blazer is only around $50, gray slacks are also not too expensive (and can be worn as part of a person's regular wardrobe,) etc. When you add up AF-style ($160 for the service dress coat alone!) the CAP uniforms are a good alternative. For me, I would rather spend money on good SAR equipment and not AF-style uniforms if given the choice (can't afford to do both, or not too often.)

...and to piggy-back on those comments, It's not like you have to be missing some standard to wear the corporate uniforms.  That's where they gain that "fat-suit" stigma that unfortunately plagues the uniform.

I am able to wear AF-style uniforms, but I own both corporate and AF-style uniforms.  I have before worn the aviator shirt uniform, and I have worn before the CAP Blazer combo -- I wasn't unshaven or overweight.  I like them, they're not bad uniforms, and often I find them a bit more comfortable than the blues.

Granted, not everybody is going to own dual sets of AF and Corporate uniforms, but I only have the corporates because I had to procure them for IACE.  However, since I have them in my wardrobe I'm not going to stop wearing them and let them collect moth-holes just because I don't have to wear them.    If one uniform is dirty and the other is clean, I'm going to take the clean one regardless of whether it is a corporate of AF-style uniform.

Lately, as I've taken a DCC position, I've found myself wearing the blues more often to blend easily with the cadets.  This doesn't mean that those in corporate uniforms don't or can't -- I just find it easier myself.  But I still don't look down on the corporate uniforms in any way;  we shouldn't be furthering an unnecessary divide within our own organization.  It's counter productive and goes against good manners, to boot.  :)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

md132

That is same for me as well.  I also own both AF-style and CAP uniforms.  I probably wear my blues once a month and my aviator shirt and grey slacks the rest of the month at meetings.  I rarely wear my BDU's.  I also wear my mess dress maybe twice a year.  Last time I wore my mess dress was in March at a squadron banquet for a local USAF squadron. 


Major_Chuck

I feel that the CAP Distinctive uniform (aviator) is a very sharp looking uniform when worn properly.  (i.e.  shirt pressed, slacks clean and pressed, etc).

I live close to three military schools (VMI, Fishburne Military Academy, and The Miller School) , each with a white/grey uniform combination which for them is mainly worn in the winter.  Spring and summer they wear a all white combination.  They are sharp uniforms.  I've seen pictures of USMA cadets wearing the white/grey mix.  Again, when worn properly it is a sharp uniform.

Like most here, I can wear both uniforms but feel more comfortable in the aviator uniform.  Same thing with the Blue BDU's.  After wearing them now for close to a year I prefer the look over the camo pattern.  Now that we can wear insignia on the blue bdu cap and both collars I will wear it more often.


Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Camas

#24
I've been wearing "greys" since I joined five years ago and they've served me well.  I couldn't wear blues due to weight but that's an issue I don't have to worry about anymore.

  I wear blues periodically as I attend enough functions up here in Oregon such as SLS and CLC courses that warrant having a blue uniform of some sort.  On weekend courses I wear an aviator uniform one day and a set of blues the second. 

   But when I do my Level One courses I stick with the golfshirt uniform as it keeps things relaxed in working with new members.

PACAPSM

Does anyone know if we are permitted to wear the Van Heusen "Pilot"-type shirt as an alternative to the "Aviator" shirt?

arajca

The Aviator shirt is the approved shirt, not the Pilot or Commander shirt.

Matt

*Side Bar*
I just looked at the difference between them, it's noticable in the pockets; but to my point, you can get aviator shirts cheaper at: http://www.vhpilotshirts.com/  they're about $2 less all around.
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

Pylon

Quote from: Matt on November 16, 2005, 01:17:52 PM
*Side Bar*
I just looked at the difference between them, it's noticable in the pockets; but to my point, you can get aviator shirts cheaper at: http://www.vhpilotshirts.com/  they're about $2 less all around.

A side bar to the side bar:

What kind of web store mandates that you register for an account, just to see their merchandise?  Sorry -- not getting my information up front, thus not getting my business at all.  Bad model. ::)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Matt

Quote from: Pylon on November 16, 2005, 01:47:48 PM
Quote from: Matt on November 16, 2005, 01:17:52 PM
*Side Bar*
I just looked at the difference between them, it's noticable in the pockets; but to my point, you can get aviator shirts cheaper at: http://www.vhpilotshirts.com/  they're about $2 less all around.

A side bar to the side bar:

What kind of web store mandates that you register for an account, just to see their merchandise?  Sorry -- not getting my information up front, thus not getting my business at all.  Bad model. ::)

So True!
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

Camas

#30
Here's a site that has Van Heusens plus "Wings" by Elbeco.  The Van Heusens are 35% cotton and of a poplin weave.  The "Wings" are 60% cotton and of a pinpoint weave.  They're more money but I like the "Wings" better.