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Author Topic: AFCENTI 36-2903, OCP = ACU, Ball caps and patches are back.  (Read 1570 times)
Eclipse
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« on: August 31, 2017, 11:37:19 PM »

With reference to this, http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=22315.0

Enjoy.

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/09/01/afcenti-36-2903/

Major Revisions to AFCENTI 36-2903:
– Expanded wear guidance of the Airman Combat Uniform (ACU), all variations, which were previously referred to as OCPs, Multicam, or Scorpion Pattern
– Clarified guidance for ACU wear of patches, badges and insignias
– Clarification on the prohibition to mix and match camouflage patterns
– Clarification of the wear of rings
– Standard Uniform Postures have been removed but may be addressed in local guidance
– Authorized AEW or AEG/CCs to dictate wear of Airman Combat Shirt (ACS) for those who work outdoors
– Authorized ball caps with ACUs
– Mandated wear of Commanders Insignia Pin

AFCENT will mandate AOR-wide wear of the ACU (non Fire Resistant version) in 2018 with further implementation timeline to follow.







Yes, this currently applies only to AF Central, but that's just likely a matter of time. 
More evidence the USAF will be out of the ABU before CAP is done getting in it.



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PHall
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 11:53:36 PM »

No, does not mean that at all. The ONLY authorized "combat" uniform in the CENTCOM AOR for Army and Air Force personnel is the OCP.
And it has been since the OCP came about. Before that it was the ACU.
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Jester
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 11:54:06 PM »

I'm sure we'll see someone post pics of an OCP top with CAP tapes and patches soon.

Cue the next decade-long cry for a uniform switch.

I wonder how they'll look with black boots.
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LATORRECA
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2017, 01:19:44 AM »

Yep

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abdsp51
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 02:49:20 AM »

No, does not mean that at all. The ONLY authorized "combat" uniform in the CENTCOM AOR for Army and Air Force personnel is the OCP.
And it has been since the OCP came about. Before that it was the ACU.

Yes and no.  It's all been location specific.  Deployed to CENTCOM since ACUs came out and never wore them.  And its only been within the last few years that OCPs have been required..
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NIN
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 09:44:46 AM »

Please explain how an AFCENT instruction applies to CAP?

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 12:10:08 PM »

Please explain how an AFCENT instruction applies to CAP?

It doesn't, however it's another indicator that the USAF is working to shape the OCPs into its own image
and is clearly working to move the entire force in that direction, and historically CAP has been
somewhat distracted by what it's older cousin wears.

If CAP adopted it's own uniform, these conversations would be purely anecdotally interesting,
however as it stands, CAP is being set up for all it's "affinity" work to be for naught before the process is
even complete.
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Brit_in_CAP
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 01:51:43 PM »


If CAP adopted it's own uniform, these conversations would be purely anecdotally interesting,
however as it stands, CAP is being set up for all it's "affinity" work to be for naught before the process is
even complete.
+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed. 
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NIN
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »



+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.

Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 02:14:26 PM »

CAP has been
somewhat distracted by what its older younger cousin wears.


FTFY.   >:D
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ZigZag911
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 02:22:56 PM »



+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.

Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.

Honestly, it would probably improve our standing in the eyes of the actual members of our parent organization if we -- at least senior members -- looked less like they do.

Many, if not most, of us are middle aged or older and simply do not (in some instances, cannot) meet USAF height/weight standards).

Air Force personnel that know what we do appreciate our contributions, but are uneasy about appearance.

Air Force personnel that are not familiar with us, in my experience, harbor some level of disdain or resent,ent.

If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.

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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2017, 02:29:10 PM »

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.

The assumption that having a CAP-specific uniform somehow separates or divorces CAP from the USAF is the fallacy
that allows the uniform carousel to continue, especially in light of the fact that arguably more then 1/2 the adult membership
isn't allowed to wear the USAF variants.

So those in whites and CFUs are divorced from CAP?

A single uniform, which would enhance professionalism and appearance, without the temptation to "fudge 5 50lbs"
would go alot further towards the relationship the the current situation of far too many members, even many in
positions of national leadership, ignore the regs and "do what they will".

If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.

This.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2017, 02:29:39 PM »


If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.

That's not how you show respect for the uniform. Respect would be working with your members to make sure they are compliant when wearing the uniform.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2017, 02:31:26 PM »

As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2017, 02:32:11 PM »


If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.

That's not how you show respect for the uniform. Respect would be working with your members to make sure they are compliant when wearing the uniform.

If the standards were universally enforced, there's be a lot less blues and ABUs and a lot more white and CFU at every function and meeting.
Absent the will to enforce, your only two other options are abandonment of the option, or hypocrisy.
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stillamarine
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2017, 02:35:48 PM »

As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.

Do many people carry scales in their planes for people? People tell the drivers license place, that places a number on an official document and they are always honest [/sarcasm]
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 02:49:20 PM »

I've argued for years there should be an annual weigh-in, the response is generally that it's
unworkable, which is ridiculous.

If you want to wear USAF combos, you get weighed-in at join or renewal by the CC, and some symbol or another
goes on your ID.  Don't want to weigh-in, no issue. 

Also no symbol and no USAFs.

Easy-peasy.
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2017, 03:26:56 PM »



+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.

Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.

Air Force civilian employees and contractors are part of the Total Force, yet they don't wear an Air Force uniform. Most civilian security guards at Air Force bases wear uniforms that do not resemble Air Force uniforms at all, yet they're also part of the Total Force.

We are part of the Air Force Total Force because of what we do in support of the Air Force and our Nation, not because of what we wear. If that was the case, then many of our members would not be part of the Total Force, yet they are.

The Air Force is not pushing for us to wear their uniforms; we are pushing to continue wearing Air Force-style uniforms even though we know many of our members are unable to do so, yet their contributions to CAP and the Air Force are significant.

Wanting a single uniform that all our members can wear is not "divorcing ourselves" from the Air Force; it's actually acknowledging that we are a single organization and that, while we are the Air Force Auxiliary, we're not service members, but volunteer civilians performing a non-combat role for the Air Force.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2017, 03:30:31 PM »

As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.

Good luck with that.  I have no desire to be in a light aircraft and I sure as heck would fight any idea to put me in one just to find out if I am within H/W.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2017, 05:20:44 PM »

As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.

Good luck with that.  I have no desire to be in a light aircraft and I sure as heck would fight any idea to put me in one just to find out if I am within H/W.

You're part of the exempt classified unit, so you're good.
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DocJekyll
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 06:30:36 PM »

As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.

Good luck with that.  I have no desire to be in a light aircraft and I sure as heck would fight any idea to put me in one just to find out if I am within H/W.

You're part of the exempt classified unit, so you're good.

Don't know what you're talking about, and neither do you. *random guys in black suits come from nowhere and carry you off into the distance*
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Spam
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 06:56:41 PM »

At last weekends Commanders Call, I brought a digital floor scale down in front of the assembled Group and Squadron Commanders, and the boss and my brother CV and I self-weighed in front of them, read the hard copy of the applicable 39-1 page, and announced our results.  We then told the assembled commanders that we expected them to expect ALL of their people who want to wear USAF style to do the same.

I cautioned the commanders against lecturing members on their weight; their weight per se is not our business, but members desiring to wear the USAF style uniform should expect to be able to demonstrate compliance with 39-1. We want people of all talents and abilities in CAP - but are required by regulations to put a fence around the optional wear of USAF style.

Continued integrity issues with simple compliance on this issue are leading indicators of unsafe attitudes towards far more serious compliance with operational issues. (I think Patton probably would have phrased that more succinctly, but I'm not Patton).

V/r
Spam

PS, for the record, I am 6'4" and 310. My eServices record matches that. Noncompliant, which is why I have a closet of dusty USAF style. If a member is self delusional enough to try to sneak an extra 20 lbs in on top of the added CAP weight margin, you will find me unsympathetic... enough so to initiate an adverse member action, as we cant afford to lose base access, etc.

PPS now why are we wasting time talking about AFCENT directives.  :-\

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etodd
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2017, 08:06:37 PM »

While sitting around awhile at the last Eval, waiting for my flight release, I sat in a corner, watching the dozens of folks milling around, in and out getting their work done. When it comes to uniforms, my general observation that day was the folks in polos seemed more casual, at ease, and happy. The others just seemed so tense. I dunno. Just something I've noticed.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2017, 11:29:05 AM »

While sitting around awhile at the last Eval, waiting for my flight release, I sat in a corner, watching the dozens of folks milling around, in and out getting their work done. When it comes to uniforms, my general observation that day was the folks in polos seemed more casual, at ease, and happy. The others just seemed so tense. I dunno. Just something I've noticed.


Well sure, confirmation bias is a thing.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2017, 11:44:23 AM »

+1 Perhaps they were taking their role and situation in a more serious, business like fashion.

One thing that makes me crazy is people who treat ICPs like a gardening club, both in manner of dress and behavior.
People are there to work.  When you're done. GO HOME.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2017, 02:33:45 AM »



+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.

Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.


For all the talk about "parent organization," the reality is that more CAP members work with and relate to other CAP members than they do to USAF members. That is especially true when it comes time to climb into utility type uniforms. Getting them into one WAS a lost opportunity.


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jjmalott
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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2017, 12:38:48 PM »

Good thing I'm just here for the food...........
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Jeff Malott, Lt Col, CAP
Eclipse
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2017, 12:49:53 PM »

For all the talk about "parent organization," the reality is that more CAP members work with and relate to other CAP members than they do to USAF members. That is especially true when it comes time to climb into utility type uniforms. Getting them into one WAS a lost opportunity.

Very true - the days of the regular CAP-RAP visits are long gone, so for the average member who doesn't staff an encampment,
get involved in ES, or participate in NCSAs, they may literally never see or meet anyone in the USAF, or any other service for that matter.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: AFCENTI 36-2903, OCP = ACU, Ball caps and patches are back.
 


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