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August 17, 2017, 05:52:46 AM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: NCSA Patch Approval
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Arc light
Recruit

Posts: 36
Unit: GLR-KY-050

« on: August 08, 2017, 11:01:45 AM »

I was wondering if you can wear any NCSA patch, as long as you graduate from it on your uniform? The reason I'm asking is I just graduated from the NH NCO Leadership School and received a patch from it, but when I went back to my home squadron they said I have to check with 39-1 on approved NCSA patches. I saw a lot of patches but I couldn't find anything specific about approved NCSA patches, just examples of them.
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AlphaSigOU
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,141
Unit: SER-AL-001

The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 11:14:29 AM »

If I remember correctly, 39-1 has a list of approved NCSAs that have official patches that can be worn on the uniform. Patches for local activities are authorized for wear only by the wing commander and only within the wing on certain uniforms. The NH NCOA is not a national special activity.
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
CAP's only active senior member on Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands!
(Don't ask me about forming an overseas squadron here... ain't gonna happen!)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040
Arc light
Recruit

Posts: 36
Unit: GLR-KY-050

« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 11:40:57 AM »

I saw the patches on 39-1 but I think they were just examples of the main ones as there are many other NCSA's that were not mentioned, also the NH NCO academy is an NCSA http://www.ncsas.com I already received the ribbon for it I just want to know if I can wear the patch. Thanks
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 10,574

« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 12:17:14 PM »

If it is an NCSA then you can wear the patch.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 871
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 12:33:21 PM »

If you saw the NCSA page, you must have missed the clear reference which specifies which activities are approved for the ribbon; the NCSA page links to the NHWG school, but it iis NOT an NCSA activity qualifying for the ribbon. What made you think that if it wasn't approved for the ribbon, your activity was approved for the patch, even when 39-1 is silent on it?


http://www.ncsas.com/?Category=&Location=&StartDate=&State=NH&Name=&EndDate=&MinimumAge=
https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/activities/csa-ribbon-list/
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CSA_Approval_Letter_for_2017_NonFli_6433B245ADAB2.pdf


So, no, you aren't entitled to an NCSA ribbon for this activity (which is not listed this year), and your specific Wing would have to supplement R39-1 for you to wear the NH Wing NCOA patch, but you had a good experience, you learned a lot, and really - you didn't do it for the patch, did you?


Good job; keep pressing to earn your Mitchell and then apply for RCLS next summer, and press on to COS!

V/r
Spam





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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,677

« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 12:59:31 PM »

Nin - is this thing an NCSA or not?  It was for 2015 & 2016.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 01:04:01 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Offutteer
Forum Regular

Posts: 122

« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 03:35:34 PM »

Wow, what I ride.  I thought that this would be an easy one, but NER ensures that it's not the case. 

It appears that the New Hampshire Wing Non-Commissioned Officer School (NHWG  NCOLS) was held in Vermont (NCSAs.com).  And we have an NER NCO Leadership School in Vermort that is listed as an approved activity for the CSA Ribbon.  So, if the NH Wing activity was "The NER" NCO Leadership School (hosted by NW Wing), then the cadets that graduated from the course would wear the Cadet Special Activity Ribbon.  Yes boys and girls, it is the CSA Ribbon, not the NCSA Ribbon.

However, as the course is listed on the accredited Wing/Region Activities, 2017 Letter, it is not a National Cadet Special Activity, so the patch would not be authorized.  (Also, 39-1 is specific in which NCSAs have an authorized patch.  Not all patches created for NCSAs can be worn.)

So, the question for the NER Commander or NER DCP is, "Is the NH NCO Leadership School the same course as the NER NCO Leadership School?"  Since they were both to be held in same place, I'd wager that is the case.  But why have difference names for the same activity?!?!?!
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 871
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 06:17:43 PM »


I'd like to suggest that perhaps an "upon further review" of the after action reports (AARs) from the various and sundry schools and academies, National HQ/CP do an end of year review to amend the letter for that calendar year, just to make sure that these sort of things are cleaned up. I have no idea how this activity went, but really if folks spent that much time executing a good plan safely with tangible benefits to the cadets, why, then equal credit shouldn't be an issue. More/Better is what we're after, right, not Exclusive and Small.


On the patch... I really hope that we'd strongly consider cleaning that up as a one liner in 39-1, referencing something like "participant/graduates shall be entitled to wear one activity patch granted by any CSA so designated for that calendar year in writing by the National Commander". A systematic approach here might preclude the need to push 52 Wing staffs into having to cover nineteen activities or whatever, to recognize and promote achievement/participation.


Respectfully Submitted (R/s)
Spam

PS, Arc Light, stay tuned. You may get ribbon and patch approval yet. Also - that's a great nickname; I hope your friends are impressed and your enemies flattened by it!  :D



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xray328
Seasoned Member

Posts: 496
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 06:58:49 PM »

If it is an NCSA then you can wear the patch.

Really? I thought only those in the 39-1 were approved for wear?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,755

« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 08:21:17 PM »

If it is an NCSA then you can wear the patch.

Really? I thought only those in the 39-1 were approved for wear?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Go with what's in the 39-1. You will stay out of trouble that way.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,677

« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 08:21:38 PM »

39-1's verbiage indicates the list in not all inclusive and any Nationally Approved activities may issue a patch
for wear by participants.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 10,574

« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 02:15:21 AM »

39-1's verbiage indicates the list in not all inclusive and any Nationally Approved activities may issue a patch
for wear by participants.
+1

That way we don't have to update 39-1 every year as they add new NCSAs.

Having said that....the web page is confusing the issue.   It uses the terminally of CSA "Cadet Special Activity" and not NCSA and it does list some things that may or may not be considered NCSAs.

Either way.....when in doubt.....ask your chain of command.   If your squadron commander reads the regs and thinks it is an NCSA then wear the ribbon and the patch.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Arc light
Recruit

Posts: 36
Unit: GLR-KY-050

« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 11:49:04 PM »

I think I will just leave my uniform blank, the expirence was great and no patch could ever equate to what I learned. Thanks for the input and shoutout to Spam for the compliment on my name.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,755

« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2017, 07:59:06 PM »

I think I will just leave my uniform blank, the expirence was great and no patch could ever equate to what I learned. Thanks for the input and shoutout to Spam for the compliment on my name.

Nothing wrong with just wearing the REQUIRED insignia.  (Name Tape, Branch Tape, Grade Insignia, CAP Wings and Chaplain Insignia for those who earned them.)
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: NCSA Patch Approval
 


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