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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Deploy to other States for Disasters?
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Author Topic: Deploy to other States for Disasters?  (Read 3671 times)
zippy
Recruit

Posts: 38

« on: July 22, 2017, 07:31:05 AM »

Can CAP members deploy to another state if there is a disaster to help out?
If so, how is that done, by calling the local squadron and offering help?

Quote
"Being deployed for a certain amount of time means having to supply gear (to sleep on because) when they get there, they may be sleeping on a concrete floor, or in an gym or a National Guard facility." http://thesouthern.com/news/local/illinois-civil-air-patrol-squadron-assists-fema-with-disaster-relief/article_bc65a194-9427-52f2-a1cd-3faf74373f16.html
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,079

« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2017, 08:36:16 AM »

Are you a member?
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The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 03:47:20 PM »

Can CAP members deploy to another state if there is a disaster to help out?


Have you taken any of the FEMA ICS courses yet?

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but you really do not just 'show up to help' at an incident. If a WING cannot cover it and needs help, they will contact National, who would then mobilize another Wing, who would then mobilize Squadrons who could help. If its your Squadron, you would be given an assignment. You would 'then' show up, check in, and be assigned a supervisor.

At least thats my interpretation .....

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MS - MO - AP - MP
dwb
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,319

« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 05:15:25 PM »

Yes, CAP missions can cross state lines. No, you don't just show up. You are tasked by your chain of command.
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CAP9907
Recruit

Posts: 24
Unit: NER-000

« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 11:01:46 AM »

Do not self-deploy... that is right out of 60-3, sec. 1-17


Can CAP members deploy to another state if there is a disaster to help out?
If so, how is that done, by calling the local squadron and offering help?

Quote
"Being deployed for a certain amount of time means having to supply gear (to sleep on because) when they get there, they may be sleeping on a concrete floor, or in an gym or a National Guard facility." http://thesouthern.com/news/local/illinois-civil-air-patrol-squadron-assists-fema-with-disaster-relief/article_bc65a194-9427-52f2-a1cd-3faf74373f16.html
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16 yrs of service
Wing Director of some stuff
IC3 and a bunch of things below that
LTC Don
Seasoned Member

Posts: 354
Unit: MER-NC-143

JoCo CAP
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 06:00:07 PM »

"The way it's supposed to work is".........

CAP has routinely traveled across state lines to help neighbor wings when requested.  This is nothing new.  While a lot of work is still needed, MER has been a 'no borders' region for several years, but state to state differences in procedure and state laws still pose challenges, and frankly, not enough is being done to develop training programs to overcome those challenges.

What should be happening though, to help bring CAP into the real world, is CAP resources should all be typed, and should be listed with the state emergency management agencies and thus listed under EMAC as a deployable resource --

https://www.emacweb.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=155&Itemid=271

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Management_Assistance_Compact

https://www.fema.gov/pdf/emergency/nrf/EMACoverviewForNRF.pdf

There are a >lot< of reasons CAP should be on board with the EMAC process, as someone or anyone from a hurricane prone state can attest.
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Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891
CyBorgII
Member

Posts: 56
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 06:06:22 PM »

Can CAP members deploy to another state if there is a disaster to help out?


Have you taken any of the FEMA ICS courses yet?

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but you really do not just 'show up to help' at an incident. If a WING cannot cover it and needs help, they will contact National, who would then mobilize another Wing, who would then mobilize Squadrons who could help. If its your Squadron, you would be given an assignment. You would 'then' show up, check in, and be assigned a supervisor.

At least thats my interpretation .....

The CGAUX operates in a similar manner, as I learnt from the ICS courses.

"Just showing up" is a big-time no-no.

All the 17 years I was in CAP it was my understanding that Wings were tied to states for administrative purposes only and not restricted in terms of operations, like State Guards/State Defence Forces are (and even they can help out another State if their Governors concur on it), and the Army/Air NG on SAD mostly are. 
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Whaddaya mean I ain't kind?  I'm just not YOUR kind!

Ex-CAP Captain, now CG Auxiliary, but still feel a great deal of affection for the many good people in CAP.
Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,678

« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 12:56:45 PM »

Any response from members of one wing to assist in an incident in another wing needs to be coordinated through their wing. Members should not be reaching out to other wings on their own.
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waukwiz
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: GLR-WI-048

« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2017, 01:54:29 AM »

To summarize,
1. Yes, happens all the time
2. Wait for them to call you
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Cadet Cullen Mayes
Waukesha Composite Squadron
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AlphaSigOU
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,151
Unit: PCR-NV-069

The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2017, 10:04:02 AM »

Shortly after I rejoined CAP in 2005, there was a big spin-up for CAP ES-qualified personnel in the aftermath of hurricanes Katrina and Rita in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi Wings. (For the record, I was a slick-sleeve, non-qual SMWOG at the time, so I couldn't go.) Then one picture from the mission base was published showing a guy sporting a CAP-USAF patch and cloth name patch ('Oh, the horror!!!!' sez the joyless uniform Nazis) that turned out he self-deployed without OK from his wing king. There was a big donnybrook behind the scenes, and new regulations about self-deployment were published.


Unfortunately, there are some people out there that think that they are a 'go team' 'ready on call' (with apologies to the Tar River Composite Squadron) and pack up their RV full of gear and commo equipment to haul to mission base... "I didn't get the instruction not to deploy..."
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
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NC Hokie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 885
Unit: MER-NC-057

« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 10:35:52 AM »

Unfortunately, there are some people out there that think that they are a 'go team' 'ready on call' (with apologies to the Tar River Composite Squadron) and pack up their RV full of gear and commo equipment to haul to mission base... "I didn't get the instruction not to deploy..."

No offense taken.  We're ready on CALL, not ready to go wherever and whenever we feel like going.
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William Hess, Maj, CAP
Tar River Actual
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 969
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2017, 09:49:37 PM »

Here's the big question: knowing when NOT to deploy, coupled with knowing when to withdraw your people because the mission doesn't require or fit with the volunteer nature and charter of CAP.

Case in point: don't over commit your Wing/teams/aircrews to a 'disaster' which, while Federally declared and/or very serious, has little or no apparent role for volunteer troops with, lets be charitable and say "niche" levels of training, and for tasks where they may be pressed into service on tasks with equipment they're not trained for. Examples: chainsaw work, technical or high angle rescue, swift water rescue, etc. The gut response to go help needs to be tempered with reality based on what we've trained for and can safely help with.

We're working through that now in my Wing, trying to write our CONOPS and MOAs, going forward, to make sure that we're meeting real agreed-to customer needs vice deploying on a knee jerk response which puts our volunteers at risk.

Shout out: in 1993, CAP members from 32 different Wings came to our aid when I was a unit CO in St. Louis, for our floods. They came in an organized manner, on request, to execute a plan, and deployed people who met national standards (thank you, COL Emmett Williams, for your leadership back then... you are missed).


V/r
Spam

PS thanks to you lurker whoever you are who posted the JAN17 tornado chainsaw pics. Wow. We're working on it. Sigh...


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CyBorgII
Member

Posts: 56
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2017, 07:11:07 PM »

^^^This. :clap:

As a former CAP Safety Officer, having CAP personnel "impressed" into tasks which they are not trained for is a safety disaster waiting to happen.
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Whaddaya mean I ain't kind?  I'm just not YOUR kind!

Ex-CAP Captain, now CG Auxiliary, but still feel a great deal of affection for the many good people in CAP.
zippy
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 08:59:45 PM »

To summarize,
1. Yes, happens all the time
2. Wait for them to call you

Considering that there are qualified CAP members that are not being called for Harvey, should they contact organizations such as the Salvation Army or Cajun Navy? I mean, if CAP is not calling them, should't they just go with another organization?

For example should a CAP RN nurse respond to the call of help by the Red Cross and deploy with the Red Cross, or wait around for a call from CAP?

What is your opinion, please?
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JoeTomasone
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,660

« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 09:31:15 PM »

A few points to remember:

In most large scale disasters like this, those who were affected directly are largely out of play due to the greater priorities of their own lives and property.   The rest of the Wing will be the first assets called in.  When those assets are exhausted or need relief, the Region will coordinate response from other Wings - both in and out of the Region.   Normally, this will spread outward from the affected area for obvious reasons. 

If you are in OKWG, you might get a call.

If you are in NYWG, don't hold your breath.

And - let's not forget - you're going to get that call based on the need for personnel with your qualifications - which means that you might get a call and your buddy doesn't - or vice versa.

It is natural to want to help, but there is actually a limit to how many people can be put to use at any given time, and for CAP's purposes, as has already been stated, that time is not here yet.   TXWG will make any needs they have known as soon as they have them.

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zippy
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2017, 10:01:01 PM »

And - let's not forget - you're going to get that call based on the need for personnel with your qualifications - which means that you might get a call and your buddy doesn't - or vice versa.


You did not respond to my question. There are long time CAP members that are RN nurses, etc. CAP's position is "Don't call us, we'll call you." Considering many organizations are saying they are desperate for nurses, retired EMT, etc, shouldn't these CAP members just go to Texas with the Red Cross instead of waiting for a call from CAP that may never come? 
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,082
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2017, 10:10:52 PM »

And - let's not forget - you're going to get that call based on the need for personnel with your qualifications - which means that you might get a call and your buddy doesn't - or vice versa.


You did not respond to my question. There are long time CAP members that are RN nurses, etc. CAP's position is "Don't call us, we'll call you." Considering many organizations are saying they are desperate for nurses, retired EMT, etc, shouldn't these CAP members just go to Texas with the Red Cross instead of waiting for a call from CAP that may never come?

Yes, they can, but NOT as representatives of, nor with any connection to CAP.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2017, 10:11:17 PM »

To summarize,
1. Yes, happens all the time
2. Wait for them to call you

Considering that there are qualified CAP members that are not being called for Harvey, should they contact organizations such as the Salvation Army or Cajun Navy? I mean, if CAP is not calling them, should't they just go with another organization?

For example should a CAP RN nurse respond to the call of help by the Red Cross and deploy with the Red Cross, or wait around for a call from CAP?

What is your opinion, please?

I can tell you as a Red Cross volunteer that you just don't call them and deploy, there is required training and background checks.  Other than that, if you're not happy with the way CAP is doing things then you should always feel free to join/participate with other organization
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 626

« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2017, 02:12:07 AM »

The Red Cross is always looking for qualified volunteers who are fully ARC trained and deployable. That means join now if you want to respond to next year's hurricane. But they will take you and they typically will bring people in from all over the country who fill the identified needs. I quick check of google news shows articles about responders from the east, west, and midwest. Apparently no state is too far to grab up qualified people.

What the Red Cross tries to avoid is the person (even a RN) who shows up at a shelter and says I'm here to help. While the ARC does have a program in place to handle walk-in volunteers, it's typically a limited role and they'll push you to become a full member so you're ready for the next disaster.

I'd say based on CAP's response to pretty much every natural disaster since Katrina, if you're looking to be a boots on the ground volunteer, CAP isn't it. We don't train for it, plan for it, fund it, or get invited to do it. It looks like CAP usually ends up with photo missions, which probably puts a premium on pilots but if you don't have wings then you probably won't be brought in.

Also keep in mind the Red Cross does far more than CAP even hints at during a disaster. Feeding folks, sheltering folks, getting folks back on their feet, and all the infrastructure that comes with that (finance people, comms/IT people, drivers, cooks, you name it). So they do needs lots of people (which increases your chance of deployment). I know folks who've been sent on a disaster for three weeks, come home for two, and go right back out again for another three.

Lastly, the grass isn't always greener. The ARC has its own issues and problems, but at least one of them isn't lack of opportunity.
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Slim
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 553

« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2017, 05:13:52 AM »

Aside from the post-Katrina deployment of teams from NER and GLR that we all know about...

I know that GLR deployed people to New Jersey post Sandy.  I know my wing sent a couple air crews, and we had an IC, AOBD and GOBD from my wing running the mission out there for a few days to relieve the NER team.

So, it can-and does-happen, but not without proper coordination among wings, regions, the NOC and probably AFNorth/1st AF at some point.
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Slim
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