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Author Topic: CAP to Go With BasicMed  (Read 1957 times)
JacobAnn
Member

Posts: 75

« on: June 09, 2017, 07:14:35 AM »

Based on the article below it sounds like CAP will soon allow BasicMed for pilots.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/june/05/civil-air-patrol-cleared-under-basicmed?utm_source=ePilot&utm_medium=Content&utm_content=news&utm_campaign=170608eftrng
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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,994

« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 09:31:16 AM »

Also based on announcements from NHQ, we will be using BasicMed soon.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,896

« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 09:55:38 AM »

"Soon" and / or "sometime this summer"...

That's also when 39-1 will be fixed (2014), the ES curriculum will updated (2004), the new beta PT will be rolled out (2016), WMIRS & eServices
will be upgraded (∞), the F45 will be eliminated (∞2), an MOU will be signed with "aaa" agency (∞3), etc., etc...

"Soon" and / or "sometime this summer" are gonna be a busy time!
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 789

« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 08:42:17 PM »

Quote
... CAP has 3,000 active pilots on its roster and “another 6,000 pilots that could get back into flying” under the new BasicMed rules, he said.

I'm thinking that isn't a realistic number. The 6000 probably includes lots of folks who have 'lost' their medical, so they are not helped by Basic Med.  Another big group of folks who 'knew' not to try and renew because they would fail. Good chance most of those will not be helped by Basic Med either due to known health issues.

Yes, it may help a few get back in the pilot's seat, so its a good thing. But it'll be interesting to see the actual numbers.
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Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,052
Unit: SI

« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 10:51:10 PM »

For those of us that aren't pilots, can someone break this down into how it affects CAP pilots?
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beachdoc
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-NC-022

« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 08:43:00 AM »

The long and short of BasicMed is that it establishes a completely different set of medical standards for pilots.  Under the conventional First, Second, and Third class medical standards (Title 14 CFR, Chapter I, Subchapter D, Part 67), there are 15 disqualifying conditions and a like number of other medical conditions requiring formal medical review by the folks at Oklahoma City.  Many pilots that are older pilots have medical conditions that require expensive evaluations done at intervals for continued certification.

BasicMed establishes a new set of medical standards for pilots ( Title14 CFR, Part 61.113(i)) .  A pilot is disqualified if suffering specified mental health issues; bipolar disorder, psychosis, or substance abuse.  Likewise epilepsy, disturbance of consciousness, and transient loss of central nervous functions are disqualifying.  Finally, heart attack, coronary artery disease requiring treatment, heart transplant and heart valve replacement are disqualifying.  Pilots with these conditions must apply under the "old" third class standards for a special issuance once.

Eligibility is not complicated but requires medical certification in the past ten years with no prior medical disqualification.  Certification is available to those with prior special issuance by the FAA provided it was not revoked and providing no new disqualifying conditions have developed.

For example, a pilot previously flying under a special issuance for high blood pressure who has since had a heart attack must be granted a special issuance for the new condition.   

The medical certification is simpler allowing any state licensed physician to perform a medical examination rather than an FAA designated Aviation Medical Examiner.  Simpler and cheaper perhaps.

There are operational limits on pilots under BasicMed; six seat aircraft carrying 5 or fewer passengers, takeoff weight 6,000 pounds or less, operations less than 18,000 feet at 250 knots airspeed or less, and limited to USA only.  There are no limits on IFR vs VFR, single or multiengine, or day or night operations.  Pilot is limited to PIC only and cannot function as a safety pilot for simulated IFR operations.

Doctors as a group are totally uninformed about this change.  Your job is to educate your doctor to gain his confidence about certification.  I have heard anecdotally that "doctors" will not participate but that is not my experience.

All in all, it is a bit more complicated than "I can drive, so I can fly" but it is certainly, in my opinion, an improvement. 

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.  The FAA has published a very informative advisory circular about BasicMed  AC 68-1 and I suggest anyone interested read it for further information.  Should you need further information or have questions, your regional flight surgeon is the expert resource to consult.

Good luck!

Jeffery S Anderson, M.D.
Former FAA Senior Aviation Medical Examiner
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 12:12:51 PM by beachdoc » Logged
Major Jeffery S Anderson, M.D., CAP
MAJ, MC, FS, USAR (ret)
Squadron Safety Officer/Medical Officer
MER-NC-022
North Carolina Wing
ASMEL Instrument Airplane
Former FAA Senior AME
Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,052
Unit: SI

« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 01:25:09 AM »

Thank you! I've heard a lot of people talking about it but being a ground team guy, I never get the details :D
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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 436

« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 04:02:27 PM »

Quote
... CAP has 3,000 active pilots on its roster and “another 6,000 pilots that could get back into flying” under the new BasicMed rules, he said.

I'm thinking that isn't a realistic number. The 6000 probably includes lots of folks who have 'lost' their medical, so they are not helped by Basic Med.  Another big group of folks who 'knew' not to try and renew because they would fail. Good chance most of those will not be helped by Basic Med either due to known health issues.

Yes, it may help a few get back in the pilot's seat, so its a good thing. But it'll be interesting to see the actual numbers.

And... largely unmentioned in the hype over Basic Med are the requirements of 14CFR61.53, which say:

"Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.

(a) Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, no person who holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter may act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person:

(1) Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation; or

(2) Is taking medication or receiving other treatment for a medical condition that results in the person being unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation.

(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in §61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

(c) Operations requiring a medical certificate or a U.S. driver's license. For operations provided for in §61.23(c), a person must meet the provisions of—

(1) Paragraph (a) of this section if that person holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter and does not hold a U.S. driver's license.

(2) Paragraph (b) of this section if that person holds a U.S. driver's license.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61-110, 69 FR 44866, July 27, 2004; Amdt. 61-124, 74 FR 42550, Aug. 21, 2009]
"
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 04:07:04 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
beachdoc
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-NC-022

« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 08:58:47 PM »

I think you missed the point or my post.  Pilots authorized under BasicMed are NOT issued a medical certificate under Part 67.  The authorization is under  Title14 CFR, Part 61.113(i).

Determination as to a pilot's fitness under BasicMed rests with the examining physician provided they do not have specified mental health, neurological, or cardiovascular fitness issues. There are NO specified medications limiting certification.

If a diabetic was previously certified under part 67 with a special issuance, he is not required to be recertified under part 67, just under BasicMed.

This is not as hard as you are trying to make it seem.

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Major Jeffery S Anderson, M.D., CAP
MAJ, MC, FS, USAR (ret)
Squadron Safety Officer/Medical Officer
MER-NC-022
North Carolina Wing
ASMEL Instrument Airplane
Former FAA Senior AME
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 436

« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2017, 01:07:55 AM »

I read your post.  The process is clear, up until each individual pilot decides that he or she is
"Safe" to fly.  Please define "safe".  The physician, like an IA, merely determines an individual meets the medical requirements at the time of the Basic Medical visit.  IMHO, there isn't a lot of difference, but (there's always a 'but' in these conversations) CAP pilots must still convince the FRO that the flight can be conducted safely.  Again, no change.  Just the hoops, and a little bit of shifting of responsibility, but not much.  According to part 61, a pilot is still supposed to decline the flight if there is a medical issue.  Obviously if there's a medical issue (illness, drugs not on approved list, etc.) then the FRO should have a few doubts bout flight safety.  Ho hum.
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beachdoc
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-NC-022

« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2017, 03:58:32 PM »

Again, there is no list of disapproved drugs under the auspices of BasicMed.  As with an AME, the examining physician certifies there is no disqualifying medical condition.  The PIC ALWAYS is responsible for the safe conduct of all flights.

The difference is that someone with a previously treated disqualifying condition under part 67 who must undergo an aviation medical examination annually, now can enjoy a four year interval between certifications.  Obviously if something develops that makes a pilot unfit to safely fly they must as always ground themselves

There should be no question of "convincing" an FRO that a flight is safe.  The pilot in command is the responsible party and if the flight is permissible IAW CAP regs, then the flight should proceed.  The question of a valid medical is answered in the on-line quals.  Obviously, the on-line component will require update to enable entry of BasicMed dates.

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Major Jeffery S Anderson, M.D., CAP
MAJ, MC, FS, USAR (ret)
Squadron Safety Officer/Medical Officer
MER-NC-022
North Carolina Wing
ASMEL Instrument Airplane
Former FAA Senior AME
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,896

« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2017, 04:24:16 PM »

There should be no question of "convincing" an FRO that a flight is safe. The pilot in command is the responsible party and if the flight is permissible IAW CAP regs, then the flight should proceed.  The question of a valid medical is answered in the on-line quals.  Obviously, the on-line component will require update to enable entry of BasicMed dates.


Weeelllll...the FRO is supposed to be the last safety valve before a flight takes off.  Flight quals, etc., are all
approved above my paygrade, so I'm not questioning anything not in red, but there are a series of questions an
FRO is supposed to ask, and those include questions about meds and illness.

An FRO with a tingling spider sense has a duty to not release the flight until whatever he's concerned about is addressed.
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 436

« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 01:50:06 AM »

There should be no question of "convincing" an FRO that a flight is safe. The pilot in command is the responsible party and if the flight is permissible IAW CAP regs, then the flight should proceed.  The question of a valid medical is answered in the on-line quals.  Obviously, the on-line component will require update to enable entry of BasicMed dates.


Weeelllll...the FRO is supposed to be the last safety valve before a flight takes off.  Flight quals, etc., are all
approved above my paygrade, so I'm not questioning anything not in red, but there are a series of questions an
FRO is supposed to ask, and those include questions about meds and illness.

An FRO with a tingling spider sense has a duty to not release the flight until whatever he's concerned about is addressed.

Agree.  The element of pilot self certification that is strong in Basic Med (just as it is with the driver license flyers), and a bit less with a medical from an AME, but not much. There's some suggestion that we who regularly visit an AME may have less rich post mortem inventories of both legal and not-so-legal drugs in our bodies, at least according to the NTSB Tox reports.  Really, the real question revolves around "safety", and whether pilots (we're all human) have the capacity for an unbiased self assessment.  FWIW, I'm a pessimist.  Data from the NIHS and others suggest most drivers don't do a very good job of that self assessment thing.  Nor do CAMI studies  relating to drugs in the bodies of  pilots involved in fatal accidents suggest otherwise for the aviating segment of the population.  It appears that the trend is upward, particularly for those of us who are already in the age of 'medicated life', and for "recreational" substances among our younger friends who perhaps picked up some bad habits during their journey to adulthood  Several OTC as well as Rx drugs that regularly show up in Tox reports  are known to have adverse affects on cognition, risk taking, and motor skills.  While I'm a committed pessimist, also a hopeful pessimist.  I'm sure all this will sort itself out after a bit.  I'm also sure a few bodies of deceased pilots will contribute their pharmacological data to the debate.
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beachdoc
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-NC-022

« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2017, 06:16:02 PM »

The medical history questionaire filled out by applicants for both BasicMed and medical certification under Part 67 are THE SAME questions.  Part 67 certification is performed by an AME, appointed by the FAA.  Medical certification under Basic Med is performed by a licensed physician.  No difference, neither is more or less likely to do anything stupid.

The new law is in response to a very low incidence of PIC incapacitation in the cockpit.  I am aware personally of pilots doing extraordinarily stupid and irresponsible things while flying. I don't do that and have reported one pilot for revocation.

General aviation pilots largely self police and have a low incidence of accident.   Not accident free, but acceptable.  Is there room for improvement?  Certainly.  BasicMed will NOT increase that risk.  If you are currently burdened by the requirements of expensive tests and evaluations which can be formidable under part 67 then BasicMed may be for you.

This information about BasicMed is not related in any way to commotion about suspicious FRO's or stupid people doing stupid things.  I have simply attempted to provide information about a new program for interested people to enable them to make an informed judgement about options they may have.
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Major Jeffery S Anderson, M.D., CAP
MAJ, MC, FS, USAR (ret)
Squadron Safety Officer/Medical Officer
MER-NC-022
North Carolina Wing
ASMEL Instrument Airplane
Former FAA Senior AME
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 789

« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2017, 06:31:37 PM »

Its just a lot of misunderstanding. Too many folks thought it was going to be like driving a car. No medicals, just have your driver's license. You can drive a car 70mph on a busy crowded highway, next to a school bus full of kids, even if you are 90 year old diabetic with a heart transplant and senility so bad you keep making the wrong turns and going in circles.   Thats ok, just not flying a small Cessna.   ::)
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West_Coast_Guy
Member

Posts: 62

« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2017, 11:09:33 AM »

...There's some suggestion that we who regularly visit an AME may have less rich post mortem inventories of both legal and not-so-legal drugs in our bodies, at least according to the NTSB Tox reports....

Has there been any comparison of impairing drugs between accident pilots who are required to have a medical certificate and those who are not (i.e., people exercising sport pilot privileges)? That's what we really want to know, IMO.

Going to an AME every two to five years doesn't seem like it would be any barrier to improper drug use between visits.
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beachdoc
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-NC-022

« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2017, 12:00:55 PM »

Pilots as a group are very rule oriented, no matter if they have a private pilot rating flying a bug smasher for a $200 hamburger or are a captain of a transcontinental 747.  Certainly there is nothing to prevent a pilot from flying under the influence of drugs, legal or otherwise, or alcohol.  The basic level of medical certification will do nothing to affect that, IMHO.

In the event of an "incident" every pilot knows there is a risk of toxicological studies and a review of medical records

I just went to my family doctor for my BasicMed exam today.  He is a former AME and couldn't wrap his head around the concept and is going to rightly do some research prior to issuing my medical.
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Major Jeffery S Anderson, M.D., CAP
MAJ, MC, FS, USAR (ret)
Squadron Safety Officer/Medical Officer
MER-NC-022
North Carolina Wing
ASMEL Instrument Airplane
Former FAA Senior AME
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,896

« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 12:50:19 AM »

https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CAP_BasicMed_Implementation_Instruc_A3783F5412DBE.pdf

BasicMed Implementation
CAP is moving forward with implementation of BasicMed as a medical option for our CAP flying operations.  IT has rolled out the necessary changes in the e-services ops quals module, and personnel can now upload required documentation, be validated by appropriate staff, and operate under BasicMed. CAP BasicMed Implementation Instructions are also posted on the DOV webpage.
DO/10 August 17

Well, that's both impressive and disappointing at the same time.  Fourish months isn't too bad, but by the same token
the membership has now been waiting over a year for the beta PT.  No one needs to question where the focus is.

"BasicMed requires pilots to have more than just a valid driver’s license. There
has been a lot of misunderstandings as to what BasicMed allows. Some people
have called it the Driver’s license medical, making people think that it is a selfcertification
of being medically capable to fly as is done in the glider and hot air
balloon community. It is not a pure self-certification.

o You must have held a valid Medical Certificate at any point after July 14th, 2006
which has not been revoked or suspended.

o Your most recent application for a Medical Certificate must not have been
denied, suspended or revoked."


It will be interesting to see how many pilots this really brings back into the fold,
or how long it is before pilots with un-reported grabbers has an incident
that winds up on the news.

I know more then a few pilots who aren't flying due to medical issues but
never had a certificate revoked - they just know they couldn't pass a flight physical today.
and none who are not flying because of the cost of the exam, which is purported to
be the real issue here.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 12:54:17 AM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

beachdoc
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-NC-022

« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2017, 12:05:46 PM »

There are more than a few inactive pilots with medical conditions which disqualify them for a FAA medical examination.  By international standards, FAA medical requirements are lower than those of many countries.

IMO, BasicMed is driven by a desire to increase the pool of general aviation pilots and I believe it will do just that, safely.

The key question which begs answer is how many inactive pilots have medical problems under treatment which make them unsafe to fly?  The major concern is incapacitation of a pilot in flight.  As that is not a significant issue with drivers, is it more likely for a pilot to be incapacitated.  I think not. 

There have been any number of posts on this topic gnashing their teeth over lowered medical standards. 

I find it illogical that ANY pilot would willingly and knowingly risk their lives and others to fly.  Just as an applicant for a third class medical may withhold information that may result in disqualification, it is possible that some applicants under BasicMed may do the same.  There is a penalty for failure to disclose under BasicMed just as under Part 67. 

As an AME, I performed over 150 FAA medicals yearly in my practice and am satisfied with the safety of flight offered by the BasicMed program. The program is the law of the land and accepted by CAP, let's get behind the program and stop the worrying.
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Major Jeffery S Anderson, M.D., CAP
MAJ, MC, FS, USAR (ret)
Squadron Safety Officer/Medical Officer
MER-NC-022
North Carolina Wing
ASMEL Instrument Airplane
Former FAA Senior AME
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