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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Fingerprint Card (FD258)
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GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 113
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« on: June 06, 2017, 05:03:03 AM »

Our squadron is in the process of moving and our files are not accessible. We had two potential new seniors show up at the meeting last night who need fingerprint cards. I expect they will be able to get the cards when they are fingerprinted but we need the information on the CAP overprint on the cards. I am sure I found an image of this online yesterday but cannot find it again. Can someone provide that or give the information that needs to be added to the card? Thanks.
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kirbahashi
Member

Posts: 54

« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 09:26:36 AM »

You'll find the generic information needed on the FD258 in Attachment 5 of CAPR 39-2.

Here is a link.  https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_002_A74FDA9552C2D.pdf

The rest of the information is pretty self-explanatory.
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Thereís only one thing I hate more than lying: skim milk. Which is water thatís lying about being milk.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,706

« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 09:34:41 AM »

Something which came to my attention a few weeks ago - apparently many departments now are able to Livescan
the prints and then print out the card instead of using ink.

Pretty cool.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,757
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 10:17:11 AM »

You can also order the cards from National. They're pretty quick in sending them.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 113
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 11:27:00 AM »

I am familiar with the card and where to get them. I have ordered more. However, our potential new senior members don't want to wait for them to arrive. I saw an image of the card with the CAP overprint online but can no longer find it. I would like to send this to them so they can take a print out of the card with them when they get there fingerprints taken. They don't charge volunteers and I would like them to have some proof of this. (Yes, the place I went when I rejoined last year used the inkless system.)
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,706

« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 11:53:30 AM »

What's the fire drill here?

If they just showed up last night you should have a few weeks before considering an app.

I won't take anyone who doesn't come today leave three meetings, and then the app comes after,
not to mention the non optional membership board.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
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Posts: 27,706

« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 11:54:23 AM »

The image you're looking for is in the doc linked above.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 690

« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 01:32:30 PM »

When I joined I went to our local police Hdqrs and they electronically scanned my prints and printed out 2 cards for me so I could have one for my files. I took one to my Squadron and they filed it away. No special "CAP" card was needed, and not sure the police could have printed on it anyway. They had their own system.
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GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 113
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 01:51:53 PM »

The image you're looking for is in the doc linked above.

You are correct. Thanks.

One was a rejoining member who has moved since his membership lapsed. The other is an active duty AF Officer.

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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,706

« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 02:29:19 PM »

When I joined I went to our local police Hdqrs and they electronically scanned my prints and printed out 2 cards for me so I could have one for my files. I took one to my Squadron and they filed it away. No special "CAP" card was needed, and not sure the police could have printed on it anyway. They had their own system.

Everyone uses the standard FBI form, it just didn't have pre-printed info on it which meant there was a chance it would get bounced back.

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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 690

« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 03:16:57 PM »

When I joined I went to our local police Hdqrs and they electronically scanned my prints and printed out 2 cards for me so I could have one for my files. I took one to my Squadron and they filed it away. No special "CAP" card was needed, and not sure the police could have printed on it anyway. They had their own system.

Everyone uses the standard FBI form, it just didn't have pre-printed info on it which meant there was a chance it would get bounced back.

Which would be silly if it did. But yes, I know those types who would reject it. LOL
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,763

« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 09:07:22 PM »

When I joined I went to our local police Hdqrs and they electronically scanned my prints and printed out 2 cards for me so I could have one for my files. I took one to my Squadron and they filed it away. No special "CAP" card was needed, and not sure the police could have printed on it anyway. They had their own system.

Everyone uses the standard FBI form, it just didn't have pre-printed info on it which meant there was a chance it would get bounced back.

Which would be silly if it did. But yes, I know those types who would reject it. LOL

Why would it be silly?  The overprint info tells the FBI who is requesting the fingerprint check. CAP NHQ does not do the check, the FBI does.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,936
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 10:37:46 PM »

And, yes, they will kick them back. We had a couple kicked back when they were done on Border Patrol forms with their overprint.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 690

« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2017, 11:07:35 PM »

And, yes, they will kick them back. We had a couple kicked back when they were done on Border Patrol forms with their overprint.

Ah.  Well mine were just the generic one. Does this mean after a couple years membership and being a MP, that my membership isn't legal and should be annulled like a fake marriage certificate?  LOL
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,936
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 11:22:56 PM »

Not funny.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Luis R. Ramos
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Posts: 2,456

« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2017, 12:01:29 PM »

Yes he was funny!
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Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 774
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2017, 03:55:29 PM »

*puts on LE / NCIC hat*

Yes the ones with another agency's "overprint" would kick back. The reason why? The ORI. ORI stands for Originating Agency Identifier and is a nine-character identifier used in NCIC and NLETS transactions to both document who submitted information, and where the information queried needs to be sent back to. If a requester is not authorized to send or receive information under a certain ORI, it gets rejected, be it on paper or via the NCIC/NLETS/III systems. Border Patrol has a totally different ORI than the agency I work for, for example, and CAP has a totally different ORI as well.

Now, does the ORI information need to be stamped like you see in the example attachment? While it helps, no, not really. I've hand-written plenty of fingerprint cards such as when filling them out for my NCIC reaffirmation for example. As long as the information is legible, then it shouldn't be a problem.

In regards to Livescan cards, depending on the agency and their familiarization with the software, you should simply be able to go there even with a completely blank blue applicant card (make sure they don't try to use the red card, that's for someone getting arrested!), provide them the ORI of ALAFCAP0Z (that's a 0 zero, not O oscar) and the rest of the information on the example card, and they should be able to ensure that most if not all of it prints on the card along with your prints....or if nothing else the ORI and the ORI address, although technically just the ORI is enough, the address below it is unneeded. The reason and the employer address possibly would need to be hand-written, but again I've had no problem with my prints for almost 10 years now.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:33:22 PM by Brad » Logged
Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
Sandlapper 41
K4RMN
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,936
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 09:51:59 PM »

Thank you.

The other item in the overprint is the area for entering the Unit Charter Number. This won't generally cause a kick back, but can delay processing.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Commo
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: PCR-WA-002

« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2017, 01:02:21 PM »


In regards to Livescan cards, depending on the agency and their familiarization with the software

With regards to the Livescan cards: is there an alternate ORI, or another name in that system that will recognize the Civil Air Patrol?  I did this yesterday; apparently the system can send the fingerprints directly to the requesting agency, but it did not recognize the ORI (tried first with 0 zero, then O oscar).  As we submit the fingerprint cards with the application, and not afterwards, I don't know what CAP would do with a fingerprint card prior to knowing the application, but it could make the system more efficient.

Amusing anecdote for a Friday:

This isn't my first time being fingerprinted for a background check (NSA, sheriff's office, other volunteer work), but this time the conversation took a different track than before.

Her: "You have good, clean fingers".

[Ok, what do I say to that?]

Me: "Thank you.  I work out every day."

[I work in IT, but didn't get to add that]

Her: "Your fingerprints are very clear.  Don't commit any crimes"

Me: "That's good advice, thanks.  I'm not planning on it."

Happy Friday, all.

Commo
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Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 774
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 01:38:45 PM »

It's because of the rare category the CAP ORI is in. I couldn't even find the ORI record on a search to confirm it is correct, all I found was Maxwell AFB items.

From the NCIC 2000 manual in the ORI chapter:

Quote
1.6 Z ORIs
The "Z" agency identifier numbers are assigned to agencies that do not meet the criteria for an
NCIC 2000 ORI assignment but are authorized by statute to submit fingerprints and to receive
criminal history record information from the CJIS Division. The Z numbers are identified by the
alphabetic character Z in the ninth position. Agencies with these ORIs are restricted from
accessing NCIC 2000 files or III.


Additionally, see here for information how to request new pre-filled cards: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1265

So in short, CAP does have an ORI, but ordinary law enforcement systems can't see it because it is not part of the NCIC 2000 computer network.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 04:34:47 PM by Brad » Logged
Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
Sandlapper 41
K4RMN
Shieldel
Member

Posts: 83
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2017, 03:56:07 PM »

Wow I'm late to this party...I help dad run his shop. Major Scheidle (my father) runs Livescan USA, with approximately 150+ locations in CA and 2 offices in NV. Our CA Offices transmit directly to CAL-DOJ while Nevada does strictly FBI Background Record Reviews (please note I'm not trying to advertise, just showing my background so what I say has credibility). Brad seems to have the topic in hand and I'm bumping this given it's a few days old but to confirm what others have said...

Fingerprints are not stored in the database, you have to get printed each time you go for a job. So say I get fingerprinted for XYZ company to work with Medicaid related matters (working with Medicaid insurance) then decide to go to ZYC Company, I must get printed for each company. And if you try to "re-submit" your old paperwork, it'll just kickback.
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 598

« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2017, 06:58:22 PM »

I presume CAP, Inc. is passing the cards off to a law enforcement agency to have the fingerprints run through the system. I'd guess that's at least another reason why you can't submit the prints electronically to CAP's ORI.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,763

« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2017, 09:07:01 PM »

I presume CAP, Inc. is passing the cards off to a law enforcement agency to have the fingerprints run through the system. I'd guess that's at least another reason why you can't submit the prints electronically to CAP's ORI.

The "Law Enforcement Agency" that CAP uses is some little known agency called the FBI. You may have heard of them.
The FBI does the checks for CAP on a non-priority, time available basis.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 690

« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2017, 10:26:28 PM »


The FBI does the checks for CAP on a non-priority, time available basis.

That explains why I'm still here nearly 2 years after joining.

(Just joking! LOL)
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,763

« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2017, 12:55:22 AM »


The FBI does the checks for CAP on a non-priority, time available basis.

That explains why I'm still here nearly 2 years after joining.

(Just joking! LOL)

Tell us when the Black Van gets there. >:D
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Fingerprint Card (FD258)
 


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