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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Is there a citizenship report in e-services?
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Author Topic: Is there a citizenship report in e-services?  (Read 3126 times)
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 876
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2017, 10:38:52 PM »

Why we need to know citizenship. In my eyes every member serving CAP is a patriot citizen or not. Sure not those guys doing thing against the law or not volunteering to help something or someone. Plenty of people like that.

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Well, patriotism aside, were you aware that we have some non citizen members in CAP?

PHalls point is correct; we do on occasion arrange the use of/tours of facilities which are NOFORN. For example, I took a group of members into the F-22 simulators a while back, and had to leave home a few members who were not US Citizens (dad was US, mom was Chinese national (Communist Chinese - not ROC (free) Chinese from Taiwan). Note, that cadet eventually graduated from USCGA and is a serving US officer.

PHall, it is true, and I don't believe it is stupid at all to follow security mandates to restrict access to citizens only to some areas.

V/r
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LATORRECA
Forum Regular

Posts: 173

« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2017, 05:11:44 AM »

Of Course i do I can't be completely naive to to now we have non us citizen members

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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 634
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2017, 05:15:36 AM »

Why we need to know citizenship. In my eyes every member serving CAP is a patriot citizen or not. Sure not those guys doing thing against the law or not volunteering to help something or someone. Plenty of people like that.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk


Well, patriotism aside, were you aware that we have some non citizen members in CAP?

PHalls point is correct; we do on occasion arrange the use of/tours of facilities which are NOFORN. For example, I took a group of members into the F-22 simulators a while back, and had to leave home a few members who were not US Citizens (dad was US, mom was Chinese national (Communist Chinese - not ROC (free) Chinese from Taiwan). Note, that cadet eventually graduated from USCGA and is a serving US officer.

PHall, it is true, and I don't believe it is stupid at all to follow security mandates to restrict access to citizens only to some areas.

V/r
Spam

If dad was US, but mom was Chinese, why was cadet's citizenship an issue at all? Wouldn't he be US through dad? Or is there more to the story?
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 634
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2017, 05:21:30 AM »

I am not a "natural born" US citizen. But I was a citizen when I joined CAP. However, I had no documentary proof of that.  Nobody asked for it, so it was never an issue. I didn't receive proof until two years after I joined which was 10 years after I obtained citizenship. I remember thecwuestion coming up a couple of times firvyiurs and CAP officers tellibg the facility rep "Oh, yeah, sure, of course they're all US citizens..." but I was never asked to prove it.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,030
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 10:26:09 AM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 634
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2017, 09:20:32 PM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.

I had a green card at first. It was invalid once i became a citizen. But I had no documentary proof of my citizenship for the next 10 years, including my first 2 years in CAP. In fact, the only identity documents I had at all were expired passports from other countries until I was 16.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 876
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2017, 11:09:50 PM »

Of Course i do I can't be completely naive to to now we have non us citizen members

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OK. I apologize - I wasn't tracking on what you were trying to say there with your statement. I just re read it a two or three times more and understand it better, now.

V/R
Spam
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Майор Хаткевич
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Salty & Seasoned Contributor

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Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2017, 11:20:23 PM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.

I had a green card at first. It was invalid once i became a citizen. But I had no documentary proof of my citizenship for the next 10 years, including my first 2 years in CAP. In fact, the only identity documents I had at all were expired passports from other countries until I was 16.


I had a citizenship certificate at my swearing in ceremony.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 876
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2017, 11:26:51 PM »

If dad was US, but mom was Chinese, why was cadet's citizenship an issue at all? Wouldn't he be US through dad? Or is there more to the story?

There usually is, as in this case. Yet, three times or more in CAP, I've worked to set up activities where a condition was NOFORN access, and I had to ensure that we had positive control of no foreign nationals (cadets, seniors, or family) in attendance. Its rare (that's about three events, in ~35+ years, for me) but it does happen. Stuff happens, sometimes.  Security restrictions are beyond our control, and they change.

Where I've had to provide evidence, it was generally for small groups (i.e. less than 50 people), not for larger masses (such as with encampment) so I'm not sure that some sort of report really would be worthwhile spending effort on, when we have so many other SCRs to prioritize.

V/r
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 634
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2017, 06:14:26 AM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.

I had a green card at first. It was invalid once i became a citizen. But I had no documentary proof of my citizenship for the next 10 years, including my first 2 years in CAP. In fact, the only identity documents I had at all were expired passports from other countries until I was 16.


I had a citizenship certificate at my swearing in ceremony.

I was never sworn in. So, no ceremony.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,030
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2017, 10:09:12 AM »

So how did that happen?
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CyBorgII
Recruit

Posts: 40
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2017, 04:57:17 PM »

So how did that happen?

Could be one acquired US citizenship through parentage?  I know several dual US/Canadian nationals who got their citizenship that way and have two passports.

My (late) niece had dual US/(West) German citizenship.

She was born on a military base in Augsburg, West Germany, in 1965.  My (also late) sister, her mother, was married to a U.S. Army Sergeant - in fact, he drove one of the vehicles in JFK's funeral procession - and my niece was born on base.

However, she had two birth certificates; one attesting to her birth on a US base (which is, I believe, diplomatically considered a piece of the USA in a foreign country, like with embassies, consulates, etc) and one from the Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

She was, if memory serves (and it does not always) to have made a choice of country when she turned 18 but I do not know that she ever did.

Of course, as she never voted, travelled outside the USA again or had a passport I don't know that it was ever an issue.

I do know that she never considered herself anything but American and her German birth meant nothing to her.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 634
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 05:05:19 PM »

So how did that happen?

Derivative citizenship. My parents became citizens and were sworn in. I became a citizen the moment that happened. They got certificates. I didn't, because I never applied for citizenship, it was simply granted.

I was therefore a citizen with no document to prove it. When I was in high school I applied for the certificat, but my certificate is different than what my parents got. Theirs said  "Certificate of Naturalization."  Mine says "Certificate of Citizenship" because I was never naturalized and never took the oath.  It actually became an issue once  in a government context when somebody insisted that I couldn't possibly a citizen without. being naturalized. Even after I showed him the certificate he didn't believe it. He embarrassed himself by making a big deal about it until somebody who actually knew how it worked shot him down.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
CyBorgII
Recruit

Posts: 40
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2017, 05:12:36 PM »

Derivative citizenship. My parents became citizens and were sworn in. I became a citizen the moment that happened. They got certificates. I didn't, because I never applied for citizenship, it was simply granted.

I'm not sure, but I don't think that is done any more.  I take it you were a minor when your parents took the oath?

My chiropractor is Canadian but became a U.S. citizen, as did his wife.

However, he told me that a couple of his children have become U.S. citizens but a couple have not...he says it sometimes causes fun at the border when they go back to see family.
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Permanently ex-CAP, now back in the CG Auxiliary and digging it no end.
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,936
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2017, 05:48:24 PM »

So how did that happen?

Could be one acquired US citizenship through parentage?  [elided]

Exactly. My daughters were born before my wife acquired her US citizenship. She was born in Germany, and still had a green card when we got married. When my middle daughter moved to Germany, and married a German, she gave the German government a pile of money and documentation, and got her German citizenship, based on her mother. She uses her US passport to travel to the US, and her German passport everywhere else.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,936
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2017, 05:50:35 PM »

Derivative citizenship. My parents became citizens and were sworn in. I became a citizen the moment that happened. They got certificates. I didn't, because I never applied for citizenship, it was simply granted.

I'm not sure, but I don't think that is done any more.  I take it you were a minor when your parents took the oath?

My chiropractor is Canadian but became a U.S. citizen, as did his wife.

However, he told me that a couple of his children have become U.S. citizens but a couple have not...he says it sometimes causes fun at the border when they go back to see family.

I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 351
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2017, 08:59:45 AM »


I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.

Personal experience suggests that the age limit might be as low as 14.  That's the age at which you have to provide a full set of fingerprints for green card applications.

Reading the thread confirms my own experience: it's almost always 'individual experiences may vary' depending on when, where and the exact circumstances.
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,030
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2017, 10:10:14 AM »


I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.

Personal experience suggests that the age limit might be as low as 14.  That's the age at which you have to provide a full set of fingerprints for green card applications.

Reading the thread confirms my own experience: it's almost always 'individual experiences may vary' depending on when, where and the exact circumstances.


IIRC, 18 is the age cut off for getting citizenship by way of parents. Once a person isn't a minor, they need to do their own process. My mother and I became citizens on the same day, but had to do the paperwork separately due to me being 19 at the time.
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,030
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2017, 03:27:11 PM »

Not to my knowledge.

Once the application is processed and BGC is done, it's really no one's business, unless it's needed
for an EYE-ACE trip or a BGC on a military base, etc.


So...just did my first CAPWATCH pull for a project I'm working on. The Membership file has Citizenship status as a column.


Edit - I'm still listed as an admitted Alien...guess I should let NHQ know I'm a US Citizen now.
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Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,015
Unit: SI

« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2017, 03:58:01 PM »

Not to my knowledge.

Once the application is processed and BGC is done, it's really no one's business, unless it's needed
for an EYE-ACE trip or a BGC on a military base, etc.


So...just did my first CAPWATCH pull for a project I'm working on. The Membership file has Citizenship status as a column.


Edit - I'm still listed as an admitted Alien...guess I should let NHQ know I'm a US Citizen now.

I feel like an idiot for not checking CAPWATCH.

Thanks for the catch!
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Is there a citizenship report in e-services?
 


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