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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Is there a citizenship report in e-services?
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Author Topic: Is there a citizenship report in e-services?  (Read 3125 times)
Mordecai
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« on: May 18, 2017, 12:09:59 AM »

I thought this would be on the member record, but if it is, I am missing it. Is there a report in e-services that shows a person is or is not a US citizen?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 12:20:26 AM »

Not to my knowledge.

Once the application is processed and BGC is done, it's really no one's business, unless it's needed
for an EYE-ACE trip or a BGC on a military base, etc.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spam
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 12:25:21 AM »

Good question. That would be useful for a few niche activities.

Not as of a couple of years ago, when last I looked in depth. I needed that info for a cadet activity for which the customer requested that access be restricted to US citizens, and I couldn't verify that we could positively assure that easily. Drivers licenses and state IDs don't cut it (especially since some states issue those to noncitizens and even illegals as well).

I've known dozens of great members over the years who are indistinguishable from citizen members. So its honor system really. I suppose you could send a roster to Susan at DP to run.

V/r
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 10:48:14 AM »

Lots of things would be useful....like cadet ages when on the new PT program.
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GaryVC
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 11:10:04 AM »

I have discovered that cadet's month and year of birth are listed in the orientation flight report on eServices.
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NC Hokie
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 01:17:39 PM »

I have discovered that cadet's month and year of birth are listed in the orientation flight report on eServices.

Yeah, but you still need an actual birthdate (or age) to determine if a cadet with May 1999 listed on that report qualifies for an orientation flight today.
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William Hess, Maj, CAP
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 02:05:00 PM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Mordecai
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 02:58:16 PM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 04:43:36 PM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!


Doesn't appear editable on this end. Also, I have to look up each cadet one by one...which is a pain for PT scoring.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 04:49:10 PM »

I looked myself up and the field was editable. I didn't try to edit it because I didn't want to trigger unfortunate things.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 05:08:31 PM »

I looked myself up and the field was editable. I didn't try to edit it because I didn't want to trigger unfortunate things.


Checked that as well, and it does appear to be something I can change...hm...
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68w20
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 08:48:08 PM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!


Doesn't appear editable on this end. Also, I have to look up each cadet one by one...which is a pain for PT scoring.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not use the CPFT Data Input Worksheet?  That has the Cadet's minimum required score for each event.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 09:51:25 PM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!


Doesn't appear editable on this end. Also, I have to look up each cadet one by one...which is a pain for PT scoring.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not use the CPFT Data Input Worksheet?  That has the Cadet's minimum required score for each event.

Doesn't have the correct standards for PFT beta squadrons.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 10:22:34 AM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!


Doesn't appear editable on this end. Also, I have to look up each cadet one by one...which is a pain for PT scoring.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not use the CPFT Data Input Worksheet?  That has the Cadet's minimum required score for each event.

Doesn't have the correct standards for PFT beta squadrons.


Bingo.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 11:22:31 AM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!


Doesn't appear editable on this end. Also, I have to look up each cadet one by one...which is a pain for PT scoring.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not use the CPFT Data Input Worksheet?  That has the Cadet's minimum required score for each event.

Doesn't have the correct standards for PFT beta squadrons.
That's why they call it a beta.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Spaceman3750
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 11:23:44 AM »

Member birthdates are available in the Personnel module.

And the more important question: Why is that an editable field?!


Doesn't appear editable on this end. Also, I have to look up each cadet one by one...which is a pain for PT scoring.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not use the CPFT Data Input Worksheet?  That has the Cadet's minimum required score for each event.

Doesn't have the correct standards for PFT beta squadrons.
That's why they call it a beta.

He asked why not, I explained.
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"Anyone can hold the helm when the seas are calm ... leadership is about weathering the storm."

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
LATORRECA
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2017, 05:44:22 PM »

Why we need to know citizenship. In my eyes every member serving CAP is a patriot citizen or not. Sure not those guys doing thing against the law or not volunteering to help something or someone. Plenty of people like that.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

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PHall
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2017, 07:07:11 PM »

Why we need to know citizenship. In my eyes every member serving CAP is a patriot citizen or not. Sure not those guys doing thing against the law or not volunteering to help something or someone. Plenty of people like that.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

Because some of the places we use or get tours of only allow US Citizens. They assume that a non-citizen is a security risk.
Stupid but true... ::)
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LATORRECA
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2017, 07:10:22 PM »

I know that comes down to the local sqdr cmdr to know his unit members. Not for a cdt or random Senior member to have access to it. Let's see.

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Mordecai
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2017, 09:42:58 PM »

I know that comes down to the local sqdr cmdr to know his unit members. Not for a cdt or random Senior member to have access to it. Let's see.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

Well I am a deputy commander and a project officer needed to verify my citizenship and status on a call with my commander. My commander knows me, but doesn't KNOW my citizenship status off the top of her head. So I had to run around in circles figuring out where my birth certificate was so that my CO could in fact state with factual knowledge that yes, I am a US citizen.

Sidebar, I'm getting my passport and passport card so I never have this sort of runaround ever again, but it sure would be useful for commanders to have this report.
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Spam
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2017, 10:38:52 PM »

Why we need to know citizenship. In my eyes every member serving CAP is a patriot citizen or not. Sure not those guys doing thing against the law or not volunteering to help something or someone. Plenty of people like that.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk


Well, patriotism aside, were you aware that we have some non citizen members in CAP?

PHalls point is correct; we do on occasion arrange the use of/tours of facilities which are NOFORN. For example, I took a group of members into the F-22 simulators a while back, and had to leave home a few members who were not US Citizens (dad was US, mom was Chinese national (Communist Chinese - not ROC (free) Chinese from Taiwan). Note, that cadet eventually graduated from USCGA and is a serving US officer.

PHall, it is true, and I don't believe it is stupid at all to follow security mandates to restrict access to citizens only to some areas.

V/r
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LATORRECA
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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2017, 05:11:44 AM »

Of Course i do I can't be completely naive to to now we have non us citizen members

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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2017, 05:15:36 AM »

Why we need to know citizenship. In my eyes every member serving CAP is a patriot citizen or not. Sure not those guys doing thing against the law or not volunteering to help something or someone. Plenty of people like that.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk


Well, patriotism aside, were you aware that we have some non citizen members in CAP?

PHalls point is correct; we do on occasion arrange the use of/tours of facilities which are NOFORN. For example, I took a group of members into the F-22 simulators a while back, and had to leave home a few members who were not US Citizens (dad was US, mom was Chinese national (Communist Chinese - not ROC (free) Chinese from Taiwan). Note, that cadet eventually graduated from USCGA and is a serving US officer.

PHall, it is true, and I don't believe it is stupid at all to follow security mandates to restrict access to citizens only to some areas.

V/r
Spam

If dad was US, but mom was Chinese, why was cadet's citizenship an issue at all? Wouldn't he be US through dad? Or is there more to the story?
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2017, 05:21:30 AM »

I am not a "natural born" US citizen. But I was a citizen when I joined CAP. However, I had no documentary proof of that.  Nobody asked for it, so it was never an issue. I didn't receive proof until two years after I joined which was 10 years after I obtained citizenship. I remember thecwuestion coming up a couple of times firvyiurs and CAP officers tellibg the facility rep "Oh, yeah, sure, of course they're all US citizens..." but I was never asked to prove it.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 10:26:09 AM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2017, 09:20:32 PM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.

I had a green card at first. It was invalid once i became a citizen. But I had no documentary proof of my citizenship for the next 10 years, including my first 2 years in CAP. In fact, the only identity documents I had at all were expired passports from other countries until I was 16.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Spam
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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2017, 11:09:50 PM »

Of Course i do I can't be completely naive to to now we have non us citizen members

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

OK. I apologize - I wasn't tracking on what you were trying to say there with your statement. I just re read it a two or three times more and understand it better, now.

V/R
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2017, 11:20:23 PM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.

I had a green card at first. It was invalid once i became a citizen. But I had no documentary proof of my citizenship for the next 10 years, including my first 2 years in CAP. In fact, the only identity documents I had at all were expired passports from other countries until I was 16.


I had a citizenship certificate at my swearing in ceremony.
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Spam
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2017, 11:26:51 PM »

If dad was US, but mom was Chinese, why was cadet's citizenship an issue at all? Wouldn't he be US through dad? Or is there more to the story?

There usually is, as in this case. Yet, three times or more in CAP, I've worked to set up activities where a condition was NOFORN access, and I had to ensure that we had positive control of no foreign nationals (cadets, seniors, or family) in attendance. Its rare (that's about three events, in ~35+ years, for me) but it does happen. Stuff happens, sometimes.  Security restrictions are beyond our control, and they change.

Where I've had to provide evidence, it was generally for small groups (i.e. less than 50 people), not for larger masses (such as with encampment) so I'm not sure that some sort of report really would be worthwhile spending effort on, when we have so many other SCRs to prioritize.

V/r
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2017, 06:14:26 AM »

I joined with a green card. Never stopped me from any military base activity I attended.

I had a green card at first. It was invalid once i became a citizen. But I had no documentary proof of my citizenship for the next 10 years, including my first 2 years in CAP. In fact, the only identity documents I had at all were expired passports from other countries until I was 16.


I had a citizenship certificate at my swearing in ceremony.

I was never sworn in. So, no ceremony.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2017, 10:09:12 AM »

So how did that happen?
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CyBorgII
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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2017, 04:57:17 PM »

So how did that happen?

Could be one acquired US citizenship through parentage?  I know several dual US/Canadian nationals who got their citizenship that way and have two passports.

My (late) niece had dual US/(West) German citizenship.

She was born on a military base in Augsburg, West Germany, in 1965.  My (also late) sister, her mother, was married to a U.S. Army Sergeant - in fact, he drove one of the vehicles in JFK's funeral procession - and my niece was born on base.

However, she had two birth certificates; one attesting to her birth on a US base (which is, I believe, diplomatically considered a piece of the USA in a foreign country, like with embassies, consulates, etc) and one from the Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

She was, if memory serves (and it does not always) to have made a choice of country when she turned 18 but I do not know that she ever did.

Of course, as she never voted, travelled outside the USA again or had a passport I don't know that it was ever an issue.

I do know that she never considered herself anything but American and her German birth meant nothing to her.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 05:05:19 PM »

So how did that happen?

Derivative citizenship. My parents became citizens and were sworn in. I became a citizen the moment that happened. They got certificates. I didn't, because I never applied for citizenship, it was simply granted.

I was therefore a citizen with no document to prove it. When I was in high school I applied for the certificat, but my certificate is different than what my parents got. Theirs said  "Certificate of Naturalization."  Mine says "Certificate of Citizenship" because I was never naturalized and never took the oath.  It actually became an issue once  in a government context when somebody insisted that I couldn't possibly a citizen without. being naturalized. Even after I showed him the certificate he didn't believe it. He embarrassed himself by making a big deal about it until somebody who actually knew how it worked shot him down.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
CyBorgII
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2017, 05:12:36 PM »

Derivative citizenship. My parents became citizens and were sworn in. I became a citizen the moment that happened. They got certificates. I didn't, because I never applied for citizenship, it was simply granted.

I'm not sure, but I don't think that is done any more.  I take it you were a minor when your parents took the oath?

My chiropractor is Canadian but became a U.S. citizen, as did his wife.

However, he told me that a couple of his children have become U.S. citizens but a couple have not...he says it sometimes causes fun at the border when they go back to see family.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2017, 05:48:24 PM »

So how did that happen?

Could be one acquired US citizenship through parentage?  [elided]

Exactly. My daughters were born before my wife acquired her US citizenship. She was born in Germany, and still had a green card when we got married. When my middle daughter moved to Germany, and married a German, she gave the German government a pile of money and documentation, and got her German citizenship, based on her mother. She uses her US passport to travel to the US, and her German passport everywhere else.
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Dave Bowles
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SarDragon
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« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2017, 05:50:35 PM »

Derivative citizenship. My parents became citizens and were sworn in. I became a citizen the moment that happened. They got certificates. I didn't, because I never applied for citizenship, it was simply granted.

I'm not sure, but I don't think that is done any more.  I take it you were a minor when your parents took the oath?

My chiropractor is Canadian but became a U.S. citizen, as did his wife.

However, he told me that a couple of his children have become U.S. citizens but a couple have not...he says it sometimes causes fun at the border when they go back to see family.

I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.
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Dave Bowles
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Brit_in_CAP
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« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2017, 08:59:45 AM »


I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.

Personal experience suggests that the age limit might be as low as 14.  That's the age at which you have to provide a full set of fingerprints for green card applications.

Reading the thread confirms my own experience: it's almost always 'individual experiences may vary' depending on when, where and the exact circumstances.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2017, 10:10:14 AM »


I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.

Personal experience suggests that the age limit might be as low as 14.  That's the age at which you have to provide a full set of fingerprints for green card applications.

Reading the thread confirms my own experience: it's almost always 'individual experiences may vary' depending on when, where and the exact circumstances.


IIRC, 18 is the age cut off for getting citizenship by way of parents. Once a person isn't a minor, they need to do their own process. My mother and I became citizens on the same day, but had to do the paperwork separately due to me being 19 at the time.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2017, 03:27:11 PM »

Not to my knowledge.

Once the application is processed and BGC is done, it's really no one's business, unless it's needed
for an EYE-ACE trip or a BGC on a military base, etc.


So...just did my first CAPWATCH pull for a project I'm working on. The Membership file has Citizenship status as a column.


Edit - I'm still listed as an admitted Alien...guess I should let NHQ know I'm a US Citizen now.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2017, 03:58:01 PM »

Not to my knowledge.

Once the application is processed and BGC is done, it's really no one's business, unless it's needed
for an EYE-ACE trip or a BGC on a military base, etc.


So...just did my first CAPWATCH pull for a project I'm working on. The Membership file has Citizenship status as a column.


Edit - I'm still listed as an admitted Alien...guess I should let NHQ know I'm a US Citizen now.

I feel like an idiot for not checking CAPWATCH.

Thanks for the catch!
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2017, 04:09:45 PM »

Not to my knowledge.

Once the application is processed and BGC is done, it's really no one's business, unless it's needed
for an EYE-ACE trip or a BGC on a military base, etc.


So...just did my first CAPWATCH pull for a project I'm working on. The Membership file has Citizenship status as a column.


Edit - I'm still listed as an admitted Alien...guess I should let NHQ know I'm a US Citizen now.

I feel like an idiot for not checking CAPWATCH.

Thanks for the catch!


Purely coincidental. But as pointed out with my own example, confirm with member anyway, since NHQ wouldn't know of a status change.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2017, 09:56:30 PM »


I think it is still going on, but is more restrictive. There is an age limit (18, I think), so that might have been the issue for the chiropractor.

Personal experience suggests that the age limit might be as low as 14.  That's the age at which you have to provide a full set of fingerprints for green card applications.

Reading the thread confirms my own experience: it's almost always 'individual experiences may vary' depending on when, where and the exact circumstances.


IIRC, 18 is the age cut off for getting citizenship by way of parents. Once a person isn't a minor, they need to do their own process. My mother and I became citizens on the same day, but had to do the paperwork separately due to me being 19 at the time.

It's not quite as simple as that. A lot depends on placevof birth, residence of parents before child's birth, how long the patent(s) were in the US, military or government status of the parents, date of birth of the child (for cut off dates), date of parents naturalization if applicable, whether one or both parents must be US citizens, etc etc.

It's literally case by case, following a cascading sort of flow chart process. The way I qualified required my birth to have been between 1952 and 2001, and both parents had to be naturalized before I turned 18 - but I could apply for the certificate st any age. Newer programs only required one parent to be naturalized.

It can get complicated.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Brit_in_CAP
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« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2017, 04:11:56 PM »


It can get complicated.
..and that, my friend, is the point I was trying to make...you simply said it more succinctly!!   ;D ;D

If you really want to see a 'mare's nest,' bring dual citizenship into the discussion....   >:D
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2017, 01:46:39 AM »


It can get complicated.
..and that, my friend, is the point I was trying to make...you simply said it more succinctly!!   ;D ;D

If you really want to see a 'mare's nest,' bring dual citizenship into the discussion....   >:D

Dual citizenship? That's a cakewalk! I have THREE!
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Is there a citizenship report in e-services?
 


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