Probably an ultrathin rackbuilder problem...

[Commo]

... but I'll ask here before reporting it to them, on behalf of my Army brethren.

Is there any exception to the "Army Reserve Components Overseas Training" ribbon to where it cannot be worn on CAP USAF uniforms?  When using the ultrathin builder and selecting the CAP precedence "This ribbon is not allowed with the selected order of precedence."

I was in the Army Reserve prior to going active, so the exclusion on National Guard awards does not apply.  Even if I was ARNG, it's a federal award so it should be wearable anyway.

It allows the "Reserve Component Achievement Medal" (basically Good Conduct) with no complaints.

I vaguely recall some weirdness to where there isn't or wasn't a miniature medal version... probably due to the horizontal stripes.  Maybe ultrathins uses same rack logic for ribbons and mini-medals

If this links, it's the only ribbon (of all the services...?) with horizontal stripes.



http://imgur.com/a/lWVc7

Commo

[Eclipse]

[Ozzy]

It should be allowed, might need to call them up when placing order (If you are going to order that is) and let them know. It looks like a programming error with the category code for the Overseas Training Ribbon

[Commo]

It should be allowed, might need to call them up when placing order (If you are going to order that is) and let them know. It looks like a programming error with the category code for the Overseas Training Ribbon

Thanks for confirmation.  I'll drop them an email and let them know.  I wasn't planning an order, although I do need to repair my Army rack for Memorial Day.  If the price is reasonable, I might give them a try.  I've never used a third party to do my ribbons before.

Commo

[N6RVT]

You have a similar problem with the "Coast Guard meritorious team" ribbon.  It is mistakenly also listed as an AUX award, and they tell you it is not authorized.

It is an actual Coast Guard award.

They have it listed in both categories for some reason, and the system kicks it out.

[MSG Mac]

The Air Force has it's own Overseas Ribbons, and when wearing the Air Force (CAP) uniform you would normally wear the host services ribbon. For example I served in both the USMC and US Army. I earned the Overseas Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment ribbons while a Marine, but upon joining the Army I wore the Army OS Ribbon

[THRAWN]

The Air Force has it's own Overseas Ribbons, and when wearing the Air Force (CAP) uniform you would normally wear the host services ribbon. For example I served in both the USMC and US Army. I earned the Overseas Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment ribbons while a Marine, but upon joining the Army I wore the Army OS Ribbon

Have a regulatory cite on that?

[kwe1009]

The Air Force has it's own Overseas Ribbons, and when wearing the Air Force (CAP) uniform you would normally wear the host services ribbon. For example I served in both the USMC and US Army. I earned the Overseas Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment ribbons while a Marine, but upon joining the Army I wore the Army OS Ribbon

I do not believe that is correct and I have never heard of that in over 30 years in the USAF.  It might be an Army or Marine Corp thing but it certainly doesn't apply to the Air Force and thus it doesn't apply to CAP either.  You wear the ribbons you were awarded, regardless of the service.

[SarDragon]

[redacted]

If this links, it's the only ribbon (of all the services...?) with horizontal stripes.

Actually, the Navy Presidential Unit Citation also has horizontal stripes.

Consult AFI 36-2903 to see which other service awards may be worn on AF and CAP uniforms. I just found out that I can't wear my Navy Expeditionary Medal on my CAP uniform. This also came up on the Ultra Thin site.

[kwe1009]

Actually, the Navy Presidential Unit Citation also has horizontal stripes.

Consult AFI 36-2903 to see which other service awards may be worn on AF and CAP uniforms. I just found out that I can't wear my Navy Expeditionary Medal on my CAP uniform. This also came up on the Ultra Thin site.

Why can't you wear it?  According to 36-2903 11.3.1. Wear other military service department awards not included in paragraph 11.5 below
in the order the awarding Service prescribes..  11.5 shows the order of precedence.

[SarDragon]

Actually, the Navy Presidential Unit Citation also has horizontal stripes.

Consult AFI 36-2903 to see which other service awards may be worn on AF and CAP uniforms. I just found out that I can't wear my Navy Expeditionary Medal on my CAP uniform. This also came up on the Ultra Thin site.

Why can't you wear it?  According to 36-2903 11.3.1. Wear other military service department awards not included in paragraph 11.5 below
in the order the awarding Service prescribes.  11.5 shows the order of precedence.

It certainly does, and the Navy Expeditionary Medal isn't on that list. The Air Force Expeditionary Service medal and Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal are. It's not a case of being a new award, either. I got mine 30+ years ago.

[kwe1009]

Actually, the Navy Presidential Unit Citation also has horizontal stripes.

Consult AFI 36-2903 to see which other service awards may be worn on AF and CAP uniforms. I just found out that I can't wear my Navy Expeditionary Medal on my CAP uniform. This also came up on the Ultra Thin site.

Why can't you wear it?  According to 36-2903 11.3.1. Wear other military service department awards not included in paragraph 11.5 below
in the order the awarding Service prescribes.  11.5 shows the order of precedence.

It certainly does, and the Navy Expeditionary Medal isn't on that list. The Air Force Expeditionary Service medal and Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal are. It's not a case of being a new award, either. I got mine 30+ years ago.

What does this part mean then?

Wear other military service department awards not included in paragraph 11.5 below in the order the awarding Service prescribes.

[SarDragon]

Excellent question. I am having trouble reconciling the two issues.

Actually, I don't really care, since I'll never wear a combined rack of my CAP and Navy ribbons. I'm stuck in the corporate uniform combinations.

[Shuman 14]

Excellent question. I am having trouble reconciling the two issues.

Actually, I don't really care, since I'll never wear a combined rack of my CAP and Navy ribbons. I'm stuck in the corporate uniform combinations.

Never say never. If it's a weight issue, you can lose the weight.

Or, maybe someday the USAF will authorize a Corporate uniform on which Military decorations will be authorized, you never know.

[SarDragon]

Excellent question. I am having trouble reconciling the two issues.

Actually, I don't really care, since I'll never wear a combined rack of my CAP and Navy ribbons. I'm stuck in the corporate uniform combinations.

Never say never. If it's a weight issue, you can lose the weight.

I ain't shaving, and that's all I have to say about that. 

Or, maybe someday the USAF will authorize a Corporate uniform on which Military decorations will be authorized, you never know.

Don't hold your breath.

[PHall]

I could wear a combined USAF/CAP rack, but I don't because the combined total is 41 ribbons.
And I have no desire to look like a South American Dictator!

[SarDragon]

You already do. 😂

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[PHall]

You already do. 😂

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Says the man with the Che' beard!

[SarDragon]

Nah, mine is better.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[sarmed1]

The Air Force has it's own Overseas Ribbons, and when wearing the Air Force (CAP) uniform you would normally wear the host services ribbon. For example I served in both the USMC and US Army. I earned the Overseas Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment ribbons while a Marine, but upon joining the Army I wore the Army OS Ribbon

I do not believe that is correct and I have never heard of that in over 30 years in the USAF.  It might be an Army or Marine Corp thing but it certainly doesn't apply to the Air Force and thus it doesn't apply to CAP either.  You wear the ribbons you were awarded, regardless of the service.

The closest I have seen this is when I switched from the Army NG to the USAF Reserve in regards to small arms qualification.  Since the Army wears a badge and the AF a ribbon, someone in the MPF converted my expert quals for rifle and pistol into the ribbon in my personnel folder.   Although, the vMPF still incorrectly shows me has having the AF training Ribbon vs the Army Training ribbon even though I have sent them numerous correction requests.  I just wear the Army one.....

MK

[kwe1009]

The Air Force has it's own Overseas Ribbons, and when wearing the Air Force (CAP) uniform you would normally wear the host services ribbon. For example I served in both the USMC and US Army. I earned the Overseas Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment ribbons while a Marine, but upon joining the Army I wore the Army OS Ribbon

I do not believe that is correct and I have never heard of that in over 30 years in the USAF.  It might be an Army or Marine Corp thing but it certainly doesn't apply to the Air Force and thus it doesn't apply to CAP either.  You wear the ribbons you were awarded, regardless of the service.

The closest I have seen this is when I switched from the Army NG to the USAF Reserve in regards to small arms qualification.  Since the Army wears a badge and the AF a ribbon, someone in the MPF converted my expert quals for rifle and pistol into the ribbon in my personnel folder.   Although, the vMPF still incorrectly shows me has having the AF training Ribbon vs the Army Training ribbon even though I have sent them numerous correction requests.  I just wear the Army one.....

MK

vMPF is quite the joke.  I went years with having incorrect ribbons on it but when I got my DD-214 the incorrect ribbons weren't on it even though vMPF still showed them.  I asked the MPF person and he told me that vMPF is not necessarily official.  I left it at that but it is pretty mixed up.  I would like to be about to see the "official" system some day.

[LATORRECA]

Just get whatever you want gentlemen.  In the USA we don't punished the Stolen Valor DB.  According to the supreme court. They have the right to lie or wear whatever, because their are exercising their freedom of speech or expression

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

[Commo]

Just get whatever you want gentlemen.  In the USA we don't punished the Stolen Valor DB.  According to the supreme court. They have the right to lie or wear whatever, because their are exercising their freedom of speech or expression

With all due respect, that response is totally inappropriate.

The "Stolen Valor" act still exists in a re-worded form focused on acts "with intent to obtain money, property, or other tangible benefit."  This side-steps the "freedom to lie of speech" loophole used in the earlier version.  Unauthorized wear of a military uniform in general is also prohibited under 10 USC 771, although this is unlikely to be prosecuted unless it crosses the line from "freedom of speech" to impersonation, attempting to gain entry to a military facility, falsely claim benefits, etc.

For those still serving in active or reserve capacity, wearing unauthorized awards is punishable by UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), to include incarceration.  Fun fact: when I lived in Kansas, I met a man who worked at Fort Leavenworth.  When discussing life and military over a Thanksgiving dinner, he stated that the majority of the residents were doing time for unauthorized wear of awards.  Admittedly, I do not have details or context for that statement: I do not know if unauthorized wear was the only offense, or if it was stacked onto other, more serious charges.  I can state that the military's definition of "more serious charges" differs from a civilian court.  While stationed in Germany, I personally escorted two individuals to the stockade after their court martial.  The offenses I recall were 1) selling marijuana in the barracks, and 2) ordering and selling computer parts.  I estimate the latter at only a few hundred dollars.

I'm not going to read and quote the Air Force regs, but as a civilian auxiliary to a military branch, I expect the AF set clear guidance on the proper wear of their uniform.  I trust (hope?) that CAP national reiterates and reinforces this standard down to the unit level.

While some units may not feel its worth the time investment to verify records, ask questions, and check the integrity of those wearing the uniform over a bit of colored ribbon, in my opinion that's not the real issue. Improper wear of the uniform is "an" issue, yes, but the greater issue is the character flaws that are revealed in individuals who wallow in this sort of activity.  If an individual is willing to lie, cheat, and steal for a bit of fluff on the uniform and seasoning for their story-telling, what else are they capable of?

Two examples just from captalk (and only one individual was convicted of murder and fraud)

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=21541.0

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16176.0

In closing, I vehemently disagree with your statement of "Just get whatever you want gentlemen."  It's immoral, likely illegal, conflicts with AF regulation and CAP values, and reveals or deepens flaws in character.  As you sent via mobile, it is possible that the post was in frustration and not your full opinion, but at the moment, it is your last word on the matter and is what other members and cadets will see.

Regards,

Commo

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

Commo, I am certain Top Latorre is being sarcastic. He is a Master Sergeant of Marines as well as being a CAP Officer. As his brother Marine and fellow CAP Officer, I appreciate and agree with every point you've made in your post other than assuming that he was serious. Alas, tone does not come across well in forum posts. I admire your drive to see right done, Commo. You'll be a fine addition to CAP, we always need more men of integrity and honor!

[Commo]

... other than assuming that he was serious. Alas, tone does not come across well in forum posts.

All right, then.  Thank you for clarifying.  I was not certain if this post was in seriousness, frustration, trolling, or sarcasm, but in any event, I could not let that be the last response readers would see.

Thank you,

Commo.