Year End Encampment Memo 2016

[Eclipse]

http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/?yearend_encampment_memo&show=entry&blogID=1805

Honestly, does anyone at NHQ ask around before they start making some of the suggestions here?
"encourage members to staff encampments in other wings", etc.  There's always exceptions and opportunities,
but most members do not have weeks of free time to donate to multiple wings, and if they go to "other", they are
lost to "local". That's the reason the "parochial" situations started in the first place is that large groups of members
up and decide to "go next door" and the next thing you know, "local" isn't sustainable anymore and no one saw it coming.

Not to mention I seriously wonder if the USAF is fully onboard with taking CEAP money and using it for staff dinners or guest honorariums,
not to mention the idea of raising the cost of encampments for no other reason then to build a surplus or worse,
have some cadets subsidize the encampment costs for other cadets.

Seriously, we function in a CAP universe where we can't get approval to transport personnel via aircraft
for missions, and the only expenses approved for missions is gas and phone calls, but excess encampment
fees can be used for equipment and non-activity expenses?

Sounds like a textbook sustainable GAO complaint.

Encampments should be run at or near cost - they aren't revenue centers for the wing, nor should they
be carrying large cash reserves.  NHQ should be lauding the ones that have kept their costs down and looking
into why others haven't been able to, not suggesting a "proper" price for "reasons".

[Shutterbug]

+1

Hooray for new and exciting ways to keep evolving the encampment program to meet the needs of the organization.

However... have they completely forgotten about the encampment curriculum published years ago which still stands today, peppered with errors?

With CEAP in mind, we're obviously trying to drum up our numbers, but what happened the quality control of the encampments themselves that we're providing these cadets with an opportunity to attend? Will they not try to improve the preexisting program first before introducing the new elements and guidance?

[stitchmom]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

[CAPAPRN]

Thanks for bringing this up Eclipse. When CEAP started Joanne Lee at NHQ informed us that excess CEAP funds had to be spent on Cadet activities. I even clarified this with her. Several months later she reversed her position, saying the funds could go to general funds of the wings, and be spent on ANYTHING. I emailed her, asking for an explanation- she stated they would still LIKE the funds to be spent on cadet activities- but the ACCOUNTANTS (!) had determined it would be too much work to audit the wings for compliance. REALLY? Like how about we do this- tell the wings they have to spend any excess funds on cadet activities and expect them to follow the rules, and if they don't, expect someone to complain and the do an investigation. But no, apparently, we EXPECT that members have no core values, and we let millions of dollars be spent however people want, because accountants don't want to be bothered.

[Mitchell 1969]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

I don't think it unreasonable to consider encampment as a "parent funded" activity. The recommendation was to raise tuition to a minimum of $225. That works out to $4.32 per week over the course of a year. It's quite the bargain. Factor in the Air Force funding and the price drops, making it a bargain of a bargain.

I used to run church youth camps. The first time I did, I was shocked at the costs. About 2.5 to 3 times what we used to charge cadets for encampment - and for a couple of days less. But, parents paid it. Some had the money, some saved all year, some did fund raisers, some sought need based partial scholarship opportunities, some of the kids worked part time jobs or did paid chores. But, in eight years, I don't recall a single kid being turned away for lack of funding, and not a single one got a free ride from the camp, either.

Build it and they will come. Further, build it better, charge more for it and they will STILL come.

[kwe1009]

Even if encampment was over $200 it is still a bargain compared to any other summer activity of that length.  My son's local Boy Scout camps ran well over that and were usually at least 1 day shorter than encampment.  4H camps are over $450 and the list goes on and on.  One thing that I think we need to be careful of is giving the appearance of abusing the Air Force's generosity with CEAP in the same way the colleges have abused Federal Financial Aid over the decades.

[Spaceman3750]

Those activities are more expensive because often they maintain their own facilities or have to pay for them. CAP often gets facilities for free from various AD, guard, and reserve components to conduct these activities. While I will contrast CAP to outside organizations in terms of cost, that should not be an excuse to double encampment costs without a corresponding expense because "those other guys are even worse!"

[AirAux]

As for drumming up donations, it is well known and advertised that donations are expected by certain organizations, ie., Boy Scouts, etc.  Most outsiders, when they hear of CAP and USAF Auxiliary, they believe it is supported by the Air Force and their tax dollars already and do not need donations.. Perhaps in the future, via drones, we won't need so many General Aviation Aircraft and will be able to use that money for other programs, such as the cadet program??  In reality we are finding very few souls on our aviation missions.  Is it more important to spend the money on training tomorrows leaders?  Just a question.

[stitchmom]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

I don't think it unreasonable to consider encampment as a "parent funded" activity. The recommendation was to raise tuition to a minimum of $225. That works out to $4.32 per week over the course of a year. It's quite the bargain. Factor in the Air Force funding and the price drops, making it a bargain of a bargain.

I used to run church youth camps. The first time I did, I was shocked at the costs. About 2.5 to 3 times what we used to charge cadets for encampment - and for a couple of days less. But, parents paid it. Some had the money, some saved all year, some did fund raisers, some sought need based partial scholarship opportunities, some of the kids worked part time jobs or did paid chores. But, in eight years, I don't recall a single kid being turned away for lack of funding, and not a single one got a free ride from the camp, either.

Build it and they will come. Further, build it better, charge more for it and they will STILL come.

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

[PHall]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

I don't think it unreasonable to consider encampment as a "parent funded" activity. The recommendation was to raise tuition to a minimum of $225. That works out to $4.32 per week over the course of a year. It's quite the bargain. Factor in the Air Force funding and the price drops, making it a bargain of a bargain.

I used to run church youth camps. The first time I did, I was shocked at the costs. About 2.5 to 3 times what we used to charge cadets for encampment - and for a couple of days less. But, parents paid it. Some had the money, some saved all year, some did fund raisers, some sought need based partial scholarship opportunities, some of the kids worked part time jobs or did paid chores. But, in eight years, I don't recall a single kid being turned away for lack of funding, and not a single one got a free ride from the camp, either.

Build it and they will come. Further, build it better, charge more for it and they will STILL come.

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

Sure, provide a stable funding source. And our yearly funding from the Air Force is not what you would call "stable".

[Eclipse]

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

And where does this money come from?

There >is< assistance for encampments which includes money for uniforms - CEAP, not to mention local scholarships
and far too many Unit CCs or others simply reaching into their pockets and writing a check - that's direct support to the individual.

The above is suggesting artificially raising the cost of the activity itself to pay for mission-centric ancillaries like
speakers fees (seriously?  ridiculous) or staff dinners.

That pre-supposes the rest of the attendees are a bottomless put of money and that's not what CAP is about, nor should it be,
and the unintended consequence of that action is likely to be a lot more cadets >not< attending because the cost of the
activity is too high to bear.

Saying CAP is a "bargain" may be factually correct but that doesn't mean you raise the cost until it no longer it.

[stitchmom]

PHall & Eclipse I was replying to Mitchell 1969 saying we don't need "free rides" for encampment that all parents can fund it or partially fund it. Most parents living at at abject poverty levels cannot save $5 or $1 a week for encampment. Where does the money for chores come from? If a parent does not have $50 for encampment they do not have $50 to pay their child to do chores.  I'm not a foundation development director to say where the money should come from. I suggested fundraising in the community like BSA does. 

[stitchmom]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

I don't think it unreasonable to consider encampment as a "parent funded" activity. The recommendation was to raise tuition to a minimum of $225. That works out to $4.32 per week over the course of a year. It's quite the bargain. Factor in the Air Force funding and the price drops, making it a bargain of a bargain.

I used to run church youth camps. The first time I did, I was shocked at the costs. About 2.5 to 3 times what we used to charge cadets for encampment - and for a couple of days less. But, parents paid it. Some had the money, some saved all year, some did fund raisers, some sought need based partial scholarship opportunities, some of the kids worked part time jobs or did paid chores. But, in eight years, I don't recall a single kid being turned away for lack of funding, and not a single one got a free ride from the camp, either.

Build it and they will come. Further, build it better, charge more for it and they will STILL come.

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

Sure, provide a stable funding source. And our yearly funding from the Air Force is not what you would call "stable".

Fall fundraiser like BSA does
Periodic newsletters asking for a donation
Ask for grants from local churches
Ask for grants from retail foundations
Ask for stuff from big box stores
WAA
Buffet that gives a %
BBQ Meals
Movies

I have no idea how CAP is funded in the first place. I don't see any of these extras being done by CAP but I see other local groups doing them.

[stitchmom]

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

And where does this money come from?

There >is< assistance for encampments which includes money for uniforms - CEAP, not to mention local scholarships
and far too many Unit CCs or others simply reaching into their pockets and writing a check - that's direct support to the individual.

The above is suggesting artificially raising the cost of the activity itself to pay for mission-centric ancillaries like
speakers fees (seriously?  ridiculous) or staff dinners.

That pre-supposes the rest of the attendees are a bottomless put of money and that's not what CAP is about, nor should it be,
and the unintended consequence of that action is likely to be a lot more cadets >not< attending because the cost of the
activity is too high to bear.

Saying CAP is a "bargain" may be factually correct but that doesn't mean you raise the cost until it no longer it.

I agree don't raise the cost. 

[Mitchell 1969]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

I don't think it unreasonable to consider encampment as a "parent funded" activity. The recommendation was to raise tuition to a minimum of $225. That works out to $4.32 per week over the course of a year. It's quite the bargain. Factor in the Air Force funding and the price drops, making it a bargain of a bargain.

I used to run church youth camps. The first time I did, I was shocked at the costs. About 2.5 to 3 times what we used to charge cadets for encampment - and for a couple of days less. But, parents paid it. Some had the money, some saved all year, some did fund raisers, some sought need based partial scholarship opportunities, some of the kids worked part time jobs or did paid chores. But, in eight years, I don't recall a single kid being turned away for lack of funding, and not a single one got a free ride from the camp, either.

Build it and they will come. Further, build it better, charge more for it and they will STILL come.

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

1) How many cadets does CAP have who are actually at "abject poverty levels?"

2) How ever many there are, fund raising possibilities and scholarships do exist or can be created.

3) Should CAP actually use an unknown number of "abject poverty level" cadets as the basis to determine...anything?

[Mitchell 1969]

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

And where does this money come from?

There >is< assistance for encampments which includes money for uniforms - CEAP, not to mention local scholarships
and far too many Unit CCs or others simply reaching into their pockets and writing a check - that's direct support to the individual.

The above is suggesting artificially raising the cost of the activity itself to pay for mission-centric ancillaries like
speakers fees (seriously?  ridiculous) or staff dinners.

That pre-supposes the rest of the attendees are a bottomless put of money and that's not what CAP is about, nor should it be,
and the unintended consequence of that action is likely to be a lot more cadets >not< attending because the cost of the
activity is too high to bear.

Saying CAP is a "bargain" may be factually correct but that doesn't mean you raise the cost until it no longer it.

Speakers fees ridiculous? Really?

I engineered getting some speakers to attend an encampment some years back. I actually had several lined up. None of them wanted big money, but it was reasonable to pay for their travel, accommodations and meals. A small honorarium would have been appreciated , I'm sure, but none of them asked. (I was prepared to give them something personally).

I did get one set of arrangements. Overwhelming success. They liked the cadets and the cadets really liked them. Worth every nickel and then some. Who were they?

Three members of the Tuskegee Airmen, including two P-51 combat pilots and a B-25 pilot who had been disciplined for the Freeman Field O-Club incident.

I didn't go the following year and interest waned on two other groups I had been talking to:

1) American Volunteer Group;

2) Doolittle Raiders.

(I had also been working on another, but he died. Wing Commander (Ret'd) Joe McCarthy, RCAF. (Brooklyn born Dam Buster pilot).

I saw none of it as "ridiculous." And the three Tuskegee pilots cost us a total of less than $500. What would you pay now for the Doolittle Raiders to show? Oh, wait - there's only one left and he's over 100 years old. I think the Flying Tigers are all gone and the Tuskegee Airmen are going fast. 

[Eclipse]

Speakers fees ridiculous? Really?

Yes, really, especially in light of what the new(ish) curriculum is supposed to about.

They aren't business seminars and they aren't road shows.  If somebody happens to live in the area
and will come out and speak for free, great.  Pay a speaker's fee and travel? No way. 

If a bunch of senior want to invite someone to speak, so be it.  But you don't do that at cadet activities.

I'd much prefer to have a successful former cadet speak in relevent tones to (former) peers then pay someone
"exciting" to take photos and sign autographs but ultimate have very little of relevance to speak of. 

[Mitchell 1969]

Speakers fees ridiculous? Really?

Yes, really, especially in light of what the new(ish) curriculum is supposed to about.

They aren't business seminars and they aren't road shows.  If somebody happens to live in the area
and will come out and speak for free, great.  Pay a speaker's fee and travel? No way. 

If a bunch of senior want to invite someone to speak, so be it.  But you don't do that at cadet activities.

I'd much prefer to have a successful former cadet speak in relevent tones to (former) peers then pay someone
"exciting" to take photos and sign autographs but ultimate have very little of relevance to speak of.

You weren't even there yet you have decreed it to have been irrelevant?

The Tuskegee Airmen presentation was, I assure you, cycled correctly, appropriately and honestly into the encampment curriculum of the time. There'd be no trouble doing so with the current curriculum.

[stitchmom]

Why not ask parents of former cadets and the local community for encampment money instead of raising the fees? Our scouts do fundraisers and many do not buy popcorn they just donate. If people are at all familiar with CAP they love it.

I think having parents come in and sit down and do the encampment assistance application as soon as it's available would be helpful.  When it becomes available tell the cadets to bring their parent in the next week. Parents may not have time, internet, or understand how to log in to e-services. It's a very simple application but you don't know that until you do it. After a full day of work, chauffeuring kids, arriving home at 10 pm with hungry kids and having to get ready for the next day, a parent may not really be up for reading through a hand out about CEAP with CAP terms and website instructions. Then it's lost in the shuffle. We are all familiar with terms like encampment and CEAP and e-services. A newbie CAP parent may not be.

I don't think it unreasonable to consider encampment as a "parent funded" activity. The recommendation was to raise tuition to a minimum of $225. That works out to $4.32 per week over the course of a year. It's quite the bargain. Factor in the Air Force funding and the price drops, making it a bargain of a bargain.

I used to run church youth camps. The first time I did, I was shocked at the costs. About 2.5 to 3 times what we used to charge cadets for encampment - and for a couple of days less. But, parents paid it. Some had the money, some saved all year, some did fund raisers, some sought need based partial scholarship opportunities, some of the kids worked part time jobs or did paid chores. But, in eight years, I don't recall a single kid being turned away for lack of funding, and not a single one got a free ride from the camp, either.

Build it and they will come. Further, build it better, charge more for it and they will STILL come.

If you want cadets living at abject poverty levels to participate in fee-to-the-cadet activities there needs to be assistance. If I ran CAP I would have assistance for the annuals fees too.

1) How many cadets does CAP have who are actually at "abject poverty levels?"

2) How ever many there are, fund raising possibilities and scholarships do exist or can be created.

3) Should CAP actually use an unknown number of "abject poverty level" cadets as the basis to determine...anything?

1) I don't know and I doubt anyone does as there are no income lines on the enrollment.
2) My argument was with your post that there is no need for a full free ride that families can find a way.
3) If they are determining scholarships for this or that then yes.

[RogueLeader]

I've seen too  many members in CAP that fail, due solely to the fact that they have no skin in the game.  They realize that when it requires work, they loose interest and walk away.  Why?  Because it did not cost them anything.  If everything is provided, exactly what are they out?  Nothing.  Everything was provided.

Should there be help for those that can not afford as much?  Absolutely.  Should we strive to reduce the cost to the bare necessities for mission accomplishment? Right there?  Should have fundraisers to help offset the costs to those that can't otherwise make it?  Sure thing.

[Eclipse]

+1

Further to this, while plenty of families struggle, the number of households nation-wide living in anything close to
"abject poverty" which is a term generally reserved for developing nations, is by most estimates under 2MM and that
is before government benefits and assistance.

Good intentions and compassionate leadership aside, CAP is not tasked, nor equipped to remediate these situations,
and the sad reality is that generally people in these situations are unable to participate actively in organizations like CAP
due to factors well beyond the baseline cost of membership.

[RogueLeader]

And yes, I do know there are some out there that defies the norm about being able to participate and become active participants despite money being a very serious issue.  I really am glad that they can.  I've also seen a ton of money gone to waste on the majority of those that can't, much to my disappointment (not over the money).